327 replies to this topic

[Unrequited Lust]

I'd like to share a short story with you guys, that happened to me,

My Dad who was like 100% Zionist in his crazy head thought it would be cool if my mom, well entire family moved to Israel, reason at the time not known to me but at the time i understood it was for us to have stronger family cohesion, and for me to serve in Israeli army when i grew up( normally service starts age 17-19) anyways, my mom would have non of it and i was like I'd rather die than move to Israel which at the time was really a major shithole (war in Lebanon 1982...) not that much has changed since. Anyways we decided against moving to Israel, glad my mom prevailed.

One of the reasons why I have great dislikes for State of Israel is demand that everyone needs to serve 2-3 years of military service.Its like compulsory, As i grew older I found more reasons to dislike state of Israel,one being Fascist and racist attitudes towards the Arabs and Palestinians with in state of Israel. I find that Israeli Government relations with its ethnic minorities is very much reminiscent of early Nazi rule between 1931 and 1933, And i find it hard to stomach propaganda Israeli Government tries to peddle how Israel is there to protect western values and democracy and that everyone in the west is in danger of some theoretical Iranian attack

The fact that Israel has stockpile of nuclear weapons and has illegal developed weapons of mass destruction over past 3 decades just illustrates how hypocrisy is live and kicking. State of Israel has no rights to tell us about threats as itself is a threat to world's security and stability. Israel is no better than Iran in my book, oth are denger to humanity and respective regions, both are impulsive and armed with WMD and both are xenohobic and arrogant beyond belief.

Good post. I wouldn't say that Israel is like Nazi Germany, as that would conjure Godwin's Law and the parallel is tenuous at best, but is reminiscent of the apartheid regime in South Africa.

And Iran's xenophobia is somewhat justified. The US (and British) backed military coup overthrew the democratically elected prime minister and instated the dictator Shah in 1953 until he was overthrown by theocratic forces in 1979. Iran replaced an autocracy with a theocracy, and probably hasn't forgotten how the US and other western forces exploited their country, killing its civilians, all for oil no less.

Israel on the other hand is just a colossal racist dick that tries to justify its actions by citing Bronze Age Mesopotamian mythology.

[jjf3]

Israel on the other hand is just a colossal racist dick that tries to justify its actions by citing Bronze Age Mesopotamian mythology.

Agreed and you summed up my views on Israel in that sentence entirely. Seriously how much does Israel "help" us? It seems they are a burden on our society. Is it there oil? That's the only thing I can think of. Except for religious reasons, but even that's a stretch.

[Prolite]

Most of the Arab world hates the US because it supports Israel. I've been saying this for a while but conservatives blow back on this issue.

[jjf3]

But why do we support it? I don't understand conservatives on this issue either.

[Unrequited Lust]

But why do we support it? I don't understand conservatives on this issue either.

Because the Bible commands it.

Also it's nice to have a powerful ally in the region. Because of the oil that is. The Strait of Hormuz is an incredibly important location to have power over. Which probably also explains are ties to the Saudi family.

[Roh234]

Just stop giving Israel the aid and let em solve it them selves. I see no benifit in meedling in Israel's affairs.

[jjf3]

I doubt the Bible has much to do with it. Where in the Bible does it say America must protect Israel? Besides America as a whole has always supported Israel, ever since its creation.

[Unrequited Lust]

I doubt the Bible has much to do with it. Where in the Bible does it say America must protect Israel? Besides America as a whole has always supported Israel, ever since its creation.

lol Revelations is filled with references to the rebirth of Israel and how it is the rest of world's job to protect and defend it. Israel's resurrection is supposed to indicate that the End Times are near.

This is mostly why the public supports the protection of Israel. They probably don't know the full details of their beloved Christian eschatology like I do, just that there is a Biblical obligation to stand by Israel. The current wave of Islamophobia and America's recurring prejudice also comes into play as most people see the surrounding dark Muslims as the "enemy" and terrorists with poor little Israel taking all the heat.

[jjf3]

No conservatives I know takes revelations seriously. It's very fascinating to me, but it's not even taught in the Church. I researched it myself.

Saying the Bible is the main reason is not really a good answer. I don't see a conspiracy theory here.

[Roh234]

While I'm not Christian, I know a lot of conservatives. The US has traditionally supported Israel and they want to do so. 9/11 caused the conservatives support anything anti-muslim.

[Deadbolt]

It's possible to be a Christian Zionist because of all that. It almost seems like those Jewish people they call friends are being exploited so that they can fulfill the prophecy to see Jesus' return.

[Prolite]

Here are the reasons:

1) Israel is a democratic nation in the middle east amongst a bunch of arab aristocracies that abhor the United States.
2) Israel has nuclear weapons.
3) Oil.
4) Israel serves as a barrier against Iran. Iran would otherwise destroy Israel, gain power alongside Syria, and essentially start a devastating war in the entire middle east.
5) Trade. Access to the Mediterranean.

[Unrequited Lust]

No conservatives I know takes revelations seriously. It's very fascinating to me, but it's not even taught in the Church. I researched it myself.

Saying the Bible is the main reason is not really a good answer. I don't see a conspiracy theory here.

Considering 45% of Americans are young earth creationists, I assume they believe the rest of it literally as well.

I'm not saying the Bible is the main reason for our leaders' support. I'm saying the Bible is the main reason for public support along with the usual white vs. brown unconscious mentality.

[Wesfky]

[truthiness]

Here are the reasons:

1) Israel is a democratic nation in the middle east amongst a bunch of arab aristocracies that abhor the United States.
2) Israel has nuclear weapons.
3) Oil.
4) Israel serves as a barrier against Iran. Iran would otherwise destroy Israel, gain power alongside Syria, and essentially start a devastating war in the entire middle east.
5) Trade. Access to the Mediterranean.

I think I'm in the same camp as those who feel that US support of Israel is biblically based, though I'd add that it goes beyond that to include the influence of AIPAC and a historic Cold War alliance with Israel as a counter to Soviet-supported Egypt and Syria.

I don't think Israel's being democratic has anything to do with America's opposition to a (democratic) Palestinean state, nor do I think that America is allied with Israel because they (may or may not) have nuclear weapons. I also don't see this as being about oil. If it were about oil, wouldn't we be supporting the Palestineans, who are likely to be more favored by the Arabs (the guys sitting on all that oil) than the Israelis? I also don't see this as being about trade. The critical point in that region for trade is Egypt's Suez Canal. That's where stability must be assured. It would therefore be against our trade interests to inflate a conflict in nearby Gaza. None of those four reasons make much sense to me.

The one reason that does make sense is for Israel to be built up by the US as a regional counter to Iran. Ever since the end of the Cold War (and before, really), the US has been doing a great job staying on top by making sure that everyone else has a nearby rival to worry about rather than challenge America in any global region. During the Cold War it was Egypt vs Israel, Iraq vs Iran, and Pakistan vs India. Now Iraq and Egypt are out of the picture, so it's just Israel vs Iran and Pakistan vs India. Elsewhere in the world it's China vs Japan and S. Korea, and Russia vs Europe (this match is starting to show signs of coming unraveled in Russia's favor... I think the Eurozone is going to end up looking a lot more like a "Northern Eurozone" soon, with France, Germany, and Russia leading... the US is trying to throw up the missile defense shield to keep animosity high here, but I don't think it's working out as planned)... Next the US will need to find a way to contain Brazil, so look for a US-backed Columbia or Argentina

[jjf3]

Thanks Truthiness, your made the most sense. All I hear from conservatives is that we must support Israel they never state reason why. So maybe a small part deep inside of it has to do with it being "god's chosen people" or w/e the hell.

[GNR Rvolution]

The reason for the backing of Israel by the US and other western states is initially a historical thing. The allies gave the jews the state of israel after the war as a kind of 'sorry' for the atrocities carried out by the Nazis, and since then they have felt like they have to look out for them. Add to this the relatively large jewish population in the US (and their position within the economic and political framework), and the close alignment of the primary religious belief, and they were always going to back them against their neighbours. Certainly the Six day and Yom Kippur wars were seen by the west as the arabs trying to gang up on the Jews and they garnered much support during this period. As mentioned above it also provided the Western powers with a trade and political ally in the middle east, as well as a proxy state through which to wage war with the USSR.

When the Israelis got 'the bomb' it was a huge scandal, especially as it was allegedly the UK that provided the initial material. Now I think the west felt they had to back Israel, as if they didn't and another invasion occured, the israelis would quite well start nuking stuff, and you don't want that in the Middle East! So the West went from being allies to being constrained in their relationship. It's why Israel has subsequently gotten away with horrendous atrocities and no-one says anything, but I think (or hope) that this time is coming to an end. The West is tired of backing up the Israelis whenever they do stuff, and public support is certainly waning. But who knows...

[Zeitgeist123]

another war? we never learn, have we?...in this day and age, there should be a UN treaty to ban wars..

[Deadbolt]

another war? we never learn, have we?...in this day and age, there should be a UN treaty to ban wars..

How would they enforce that? War?

[GNR Rvolution]

another war? we never learn, have we?...in this day and age, there should be a UN treaty to ban wars..

How would they enforce that? War?

Nah, they'd probably just draw up a resolution and then sit back and look smug