23 replies to this topic

[jjf3]

This is a huge ongoing topic in the US and one that is gaining media attention

What do members think? I think it would be helpful to maintain security at the polls and to make sure illegal immigrants do not cast their say, because to me they don't get one!

[Dead Redshirt]

They're definitely required in Canada.

[jjf3]

wow. It's amazing how advanced we Americans think we are when we can't even solve basic problems like voter fraud. Of course, it doesn't help that our politicians "lose" votes at the last minute too!

[Roh234]

I love how people say photo ID is anti- poor when clearly its anti-fraud.

Edited by Roh234, 20 December 2011 - 03:22 PM.

[Dead Redshirt]

wow. It's amazing how advanced we Americans think we are when we can't even solve basic problems like voter fraud. Of course, it doesn't help that our politicians "lose" votes at the last minute too!

Yeah, you'd think so. When voting here, two pieces of ID are actually required. One of them has to have a photo, like the health card.

[jjf3]

Wow, here you can just walk in for the most part.

[shane_allen]

wow. It's amazing how advanced we Americans think we are when we can't even solve basic problems like voter fraud. Of course, it doesn't help that our politicians "lose" votes at the last minute too!

The resistance against voter ID is that to get a state ID card, there is a fee. If you are required to pay a fee to vote, it amounts to a poll tax, which is unconstitutional.
I don't think illegal immigrant voting is nearly as big an issue as private companies running the ballot machines or inexplicable blackouts in poor districts on voting days.
Also, this whole business of gerrymandering that political parties get away with far too often.

[truthiness]

I guess this must be one of those things that is different from state to state. In Michigan you must be registered to vote, and registering requires that you be a US citizen and that you have some proof that you live in whatever district you're going to be voting in. There is no photo ID requirement, but if you don't have a photo ID you have to sign an affidavit that says that you are who you say you are and that you don't possess a photo ID.

Is registration not required in all states? It seems like that process pretty much takes care of just about any potential non-citizen problem...

[jjf3]

wow. It's amazing how advanced we Americans think we are when we can't even solve basic problems like voter fraud. Of course, it doesn't help that our politicians "lose" votes at the last minute too!

The resistance against voter ID is that to get a state ID card, there is a fee. If you are required to pay a fee to vote, it amounts to a poll tax, which is unconstitutional.
I don't think illegal immigrant voting is nearly as big an issue as private companies running the ballot machines or inexplicable blackouts in poor districts on voting days.
Also, this whole business of gerrymandering that political parties get away with far too often.

The problem with that mentality is that you don't need to pay each time you vote. Just once for the ID card. It's no different than, Drivers license or even a fishing license.

[jjf3]

I guess this must be one of those things that is different from state to state. In Michigan you must be registered to vote, and registering requires that you be a US citizen and that you have some proof that you live in whatever district you're going to be voting in. There is no photo ID requirement, but if you don't have a photo ID you have to sign an affidavit that says that you are who you say you are and that you don't possess a photo ID.

Is registration not required in all states? It seems like that process pretty much takes care of just about any potential non-citizen problem...

If you are a citizen how can you not have a photo ID? I find it very fishy. College, Driver's license, passport??? These are required for normal citizens that need to get around. If you don't have these I would be very suspicious that you are who you say you are. Only in a voting booth will they not look at you with suspicion if you don't have these Forms of Identification. I think that's a real problem.

Edited by jjf3, 10 January 2012 - 04:28 AM.

[shane_allen]

If you are a citizen how can you not have a photo ID? I find it very fishy. College, Driver's license, passport??? These are required for normal citizens that need to get around. If you don't have these I would be very suspicious that you are who you say you are.

I agree, I've had photo ID in my wallet since I was 10. It's just irresponsible to not have ID on you when you're doing something like voting, purchasing things with cards or anything like that.

But I'm still 100% against a poll tax, and requiring a document that costs money to get is basically that. I don't remember if it cost me money in Minnesota to get my ID card, or if there is a free way to do that. I do know we have to register, but I don't remember actually doing it.

[GNR Rvolution]

What about fake IDs? Have an ID is no good if it's possible to fake it, and people do that all the time. On the other hand it's possible (albeit unlikely) that you might not have some photo ID, so does that mean you are not allowed to vote?

[jjf3]

What about fake IDs? Have an ID is no good if it's possible to fake it, and people do that all the time. On the other hand it's possible (albeit unlikely) that you might not have some photo ID, so does that mean you are not allowed to vote?

States are issuing new laws right now that state just that. If you do not have some sort of proper id then you cannot vote. It's to combat voter fraud. Because technically you could go to different counties and vote for the same people using a different regular name. Yes fake IDs are a problem, but right now is some states you don't even have to show an ID. And usually the Fakes cost more money than the real thing. But kids get em for underage drinking so they want to invest in that sort of thing. Otherwise if you have a fake you probably are a criminal, because kids don't get fake IDs to vote. Actually that might help certain people win elections if they did.

Edited by jjf3, 10 January 2012 - 07:12 PM.

[ShallowLeaf]

I personally think that Voter ID's should be required. I mean, if you have to pay a bit for the card, that's not too bad in my mind, since you must do the same to have a license to drive, fish, own a gun, own exotic animals, etc. All of those things are privileges of citizens of the US, and voting is one too. I mean, I am all for them finding a way to not charge for them as well, such as possibly issuing them with Drivers Licenses and what-not whenever you get that, or just going to a place in your county and showing them ID to get your free voter card. I mean, it doesn't strike me as a bad idea, or one that would be too hard to implement.

[truthiness]

What we're forgetting about here is that in order to vote, we still have to register beforehand and prove that we are a resident of your district. Registration is free, but does require that you have some proof that you are who you say you are, and that you live where you say you live. You can't register to vote in more than one place, and your record is checked against a national database to make sure you aren't doing exactly that. Once you've gone through that process, all you need to do is go to your polling place and claim to be you - the volunteers that work there will check your name against a list of registered voters. If you don't provide some ID to the workers at the polling place, you have to sign a form that says that you don't have an ID, and your vote will be counted as long as noone else claiming to be you (with proper ID) doesn't show up that day.

The registration process is meant to weed out voter fraud. Presenting actual ID at a polling place is an unnecessary redundant step which will discourage potential voters who don't wish to go through the process to obtain a driver's license or other legal photo ID. They shouldn't be made to do that, as long as they can provide proof that they live where they say they live, and are who they say they are (through a social security number, or documentation of homeownership, or a birth certificate, or some other non-photo ID).

Voting is a right, not a privilege. As long as proof can be established that someone is in fact a citizen, it is very important that there should be no barriers in place to keep them from voting.

[jjf3]

Voting is considered a privilege under US law even though most people believe its a right. Voting is not a right, but a privilege granted or withheld at the discretion of local and state governments. Government is defined in the constitution as For the people by the people so it is considered in our mindset as a right where in reality it really is a privilege. Sorry to say but it's true. We do not have a fundamental right to vote. It is determined by states. And all states give its citizens the privilege to vote. See convicts cannot vote, they get that privilege taken away. In most circumstances non-citizens don't get to vote, cause it's a privilege for being a citizen of the US. In the past women and blacks were not given the privilege to vote. The law changes as time goes on.

So you want people to prove who they are without getting a photo ID and you think they would have all of the other required necessary papers to prove it? I carry around two photo IDs with me at all times, My birth certificate is kept in a fire safe at home. It's easier to get the photo ID. What if you loose your Birth Certificate?

In our state of intense paranoia we sometimes need three forms of identification to do anything anymore. Not just one photo ID. So the Photo ID thing to vote is a step in the right direction. Why not try to implement the law and see how it works out? If it really is that hard for the elderly and minorities to get photo IDs I'm sure states will offer them for free. Some already have.

Photo ID laws require voters to present a government-approved photo ID before they may cast their ballots. Belgium, Spain,Greece, Italy, Malta, and seven US states have such laws, including Indiana and Georgia. I thought you guys wanted US to be more like Europe? well they require Photo IDs too!!!

Edited by jjf3, 13 January 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[KingstonDon]

We don't want you to become more "like" Europe as if we are so awesome, that's a bullshit reasoning.

We want you to quit annoying the world with your grand display of "wealth", exceptionalism and the nigh masturbationary frequency of the saying "greatest country in the world" while the country has a burgeoning population of poor people and a politically active middle to upper class of whom half seem to have forgotten that social systems are actually necessary to prevent situations akin to third world countries, eventhough certain states already seem to be at that stage. (i.e. Mississippi)

As long as it doesn't cost an extraordinary amount of money to get the photo ID I see no problem with it, we are summoned to city hall to get our electronic ID's from the age of 12 here. It costs round about 12 euros, which is the equivalent of ten cans of cola. To give you a sense of the purchasing power instilled in €12.

Ofcourse the situation here is different from there, we have had our "normal" ID's** for ages and you are expected to bear it with you at all times, a birth certificate is never asked for except for when handling matters of international migration cases or something alike.

"What if you loose your birth certificate" , well get a new one if it's possible. Aside from that, please learn the proper usage of the verb "to lose", you can lose something or your shoe laces can be loose.

** : recently became electronic, can be used in multiple government services => 1 card for 1 government, right?

Edited by KingstonDon, 13 January 2012 - 09:43 PM.

[jjf3]

Well it takes about 2 weeks to get a new birth certificate depending on certain circumstances. And it takes about a month to get a passport. It takes at most 30 minutes to an hour to get a new photo id depending on how far the DMV is from your house and how long the line is or other Government buildings that issue Photo IDs.

So as I see it the easiest way to go is to get a photo ID. It's simple and cheap and just as much of a burden on the poor and the seniors as it is to actually get out and vote.

And from your first sensational paragraph let me just say this. Greatest Nation on Earth =/= Perfect. Americans know this much more than you think. Stack up any nation against America and I think you'll find it hard to compete with us. A few come close but for now we are on the top and we have been for quite sometime. It's always easy to attack the top dog.

Edited by jjf3, 13 January 2012 - 11:38 PM.

[KingstonDon]

Well it takes about 2 weeks to get a new birth certificate depending on certain circumstances. And it takes about a month to get a passport. It takes at most 30 minutes to an hour to get a new photo id depending on how far the DMV is from your house and how long the line is or other Government buildings that issue Photo IDs.

So as I see it the easiest way to go is to get a photo ID. It's simple and cheap and just as much of a burden on the poor and the seniors as it is to actually get out and vote.

And from your first sensational paragraph let me just say this. Greatest Nation on Earth =/= Perfect. Americans know this much more than you think. Stack up any nation against America and I think you'll find it hard to compete with us. A few come close but for now we are on the top and we have been for quite sometime. It's always easy to attack the top dog.

Then what is the guage used to measure your own "greatness"? What is the objective guage to "greatness"?
The fact you have a higher murder rate per capita than most other developed countries?
Or the fact you are richer on average than other countries?

Or is it that you have a big military?
Maybe it could be the fact that said military has been the subject to much disgrace ...

A superpower is always the first one to take the heat indeed, it is your privilege. If you don't like it, your NDAA-enabled military may as well abduct me from my humble hut in my "lesser" country.

[jjf3]

Most studies show that America is the world super power at the moment. Weather it would be our (shaky) economy, military power, or technological and scientific superiority, even our education. More Europeans come to my university every year and its far from an Ivy League school. You can look these up on the internet. The CIA World Factbook or the UN is a good place to start.