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Energy & Environmental News and Discussions

climate change energy environment renewable energy nuclear energy fossil fuels fusion energy global warming sustainability solar energy

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#81
mic of orion

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It just amazes me how far right wing crooks will go on and manufacture evidence to purport lies, hate and confusion to benefit their own end, it is amazing such things are allowed to go unpunished in America. If someone made such blatant lie and propaganda, forged evidence and falsified research to suit their own agenda or faked 32000 signatures they'd face 4 years behind bars in UK under Fraud and Deception Act, they could also be prosecuted on few other charges such as theft of identity which carries 4 years custodial sentence for each case (faking signatures or official documents) underarming public trust and fraudulent abuse of public trust also carry 4 years custodial. I am amazed how this stuff are allowed to go unpunished in America. You did something like that in the EU, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, even Russia, you'd face serious legal repercussion. In America right wing is allowed to lie, hate, embezzle and get away with a murder, sickens me.
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It's dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

#82
Roh234

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As the level of CO2 increases the effect it has decreases. I have a series of 900 papers that refute GHGs as the sole driver of Cliamte Change in the late 20th centuary.

EDIT: http://www.popularte...supporting.html


I had a quick look at that site.

Among its sources, it quotes the "Petition Project" here, which is fraudulent and has been utterly debunked.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py2XVILHUjQ

http://en.wikipedia....Oregon_Petition

It has not been debunked.

Atleast 3.6k signers are directly involved with climate science and 20k people are qualified though study can comment and have a vaild opinon on climate change...


It just amazes me how far right wing crooks will go on and manufacture evidence to purport lies, hate and confusion to benefit their own end, it is amazing such things are allowed to go unpunished in America. If someone made such blatant lie and propaganda, forged evidence and falsified research to suit their own agenda or faked 32000 signatures they'd face 4 years behind bars in UK under Fraud and Deception Act, they could also be prosecuted on few other charges such as theft of identity which carries 4 years custodial sentence for each case (faking signatures or official documents) underarming public trust and fraudulent abuse of public trust also carry 4 years custodial.

I am amazed how this stuff are allowed to go unpunished in America. You did something like that in the EU, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, even Russia, you'd face serious legal repercussion.

In America right wing is allowed to lie, hate, embezzle and get away with a murder, sickens me.


I can do baseless rants too.

It just amazes me how far left wing crooks will go on and manufacture evidence to purport lies, hate and confusion to benefit their own end, it is amazing such things are allowed to go unpunished in America. If someone made such blatant lie and propaganda, forged evidence and falsified research to suit their own agenda or faked a 97% consesnus they'd face 4 years behind bars in UK under Fraud and Deception Act, they could also be prosecuted on few other charges such as theft of identity which carries 4 years custodial sentence for each case (faking signatures or official documents, cheery picking) underarming public trust and fraudulent abuse of public trust also carry 4 years custodial.

I am amazed how this stuff are allowed to go unpunished in America. You did something like that in the EU, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, even Russia, you'd face serious legal repercussion.

In the world the left wing is allowed to lie, hate, embezzle and get away with a murder, sickens me
  • Zachemc2 likes this

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#83
Roh234

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LMAO Skeptical Science has defaulted.

http://www.skeptical.../peerreview.php

Even though that are 900+ skeptical papers it only quotes 224.

Lets play with their math.

In their tally of 5,071 peer revied papers they have...

4.4%- Skeptical
46.8%-Neutral
48.8%-Pro-AGW

That is not the 95% consesnus they parrot about. In fact they are a minority.
  • Zachemc2 likes this

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#84
Time_Traveller

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Arctic ozone loss at record level

Ozone loss over the Arctic this year was so severe that for the first time it could be called an "ozone hole" like the Antarctic one, scientists report.


Posted Image

From http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-15105747

If that isn't made better in years to come, we'll have major weird weather.
I want to go ahead of Father Time with a scythe of my own.

H. G. Wells

#85
Roh234

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CO2 levels are not 'well-mixed'.
Posted Image

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#86
Unrequited Lust

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@Roh, once again my 100% consensus statement is based on: http://nationalacade...pi/06072005.pdf

Please don't bring fringe evidence into this. Especially when the think tank responsible refuses to divulge where 95% of its funding comes from.


That statement came from this biased study

http://tigger.uic.ed...Doran_final.pdf

EDIT: Do you have any REAL proof that Ross's funding comes from an unknown source or big oil after 2009?

Okay, you know what, none of this consensus stuff. Let's talk about the actual science.

Global warming says that man's increased use of greenhouse gases, namely carbon dioxide, and cutting down trees, which eat carbon dioxide, goes into the atmosphere and causes a greenhouse effect. This will increase the world's temperature by a few degrees Celsius, which will be disastrous. Thousands upon thousands of peer reviewed studies and experiments throughout the past 2 decades have purportedly confirmed this hypothesis.

Now tell me why this is wrong scientifically and I will attempt to refute it. God knows I need to learn the science behind this anyway.

#87
Roh234

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Take a good look at these two graphs, I got these from pro-AGW blogs and offical data.

Posted Image


Posted Image

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Lets look at this 1 way.

CO2 is currently at 392.7ppm which is 0.003927% in our CO2.
Carbon Dioxide represents less than 5% of the current Greenhouse effect,
Man contributes 6% of global CO2 emissions.

The IPCC uses a faulty heat capacity figure, doesn't include the function of the ocean.

The main source of catastrophic heat entailed by the IPCC is the water vapor and methane feedback. They say that an increased heat will be increased water vapor content and catastrophic heat. We say that increased water vapor will create a negative cloud feedback and will have a net cooling effect. The fact that the warming has reduced and flat curving is proving our point.

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#88
truthiness

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CO2 is currently at 392.7ppm which is 0.003927% in our CO2.
Carbon Dioxide represents less than 5% of the current Greenhouse effect,
Man contributes 6% of global CO2 emissions.

The IPCC uses a faulty heat capacity figure, doesn't include the function of the ocean.

The main source of catastrophic heat entailed by the IPCC is the water vapor and methane feedback. They say that an increased heat will be increased water vapor content and catastrophic heat. We say that increased water vapor will create a negative cloud feedback and will have a net cooling effect. The fact that the warming has reduced and flat curving is proving our point.


OK then... 400 parts per million does not sound like a lot of carbon dioxide, but that is quite beside the point. Historic levels of carbon dioxide in the range of 1000-2000ppm coincided with an ice-free Earth during the whole first part of the Cenozoic. Life on Earth (human civilization included) is adapted to the level of carbon dioxide (and consequently, the climate) that preceded the Industrial Revolution (roughly 250ppm). The Earth may indeed become technically a more habitable place once we return the level of CO2 back to 1000ppm. We may lose some coastline, but we'll gain quite a bit of what was once permanently tundra and icy terrain. Trouble is that life on Earth (for the most part) is currently well adapted to specific habitats that don't span far enough to the north. Animals and plants and fungi will begin moving to new habitats that best suit their climactic needs. The first to move will be those that reproduce in large numbers the quickest, which we tend to call "pests". The pests will displace the native life and act as an invasive species. Overall biodiversity will drop. The mass extinction event that we're already in will be exacerbated. The worldwide food web is extensive and strong, but you can only punch so many holes in it before it starts to fail. I'm pretty sure that we ought not to be monkeying with such a complex system..

Even if carbon dioxide represents less than 5% of the greenhouse effect, that's quite a bit for a gas that only makes up .0039% of our atmosphere, don't you think? If man is contributing only 6% of global CO2 emissions, it must be the 6% that is above and beyond what the Earth can handle, because that level (the actual level of CO2 in ppm) has been rising pretty ominously ever since we started ratcheting up our contribution to that 6% level.

If CO2 makes up 5% of our greenhouse effect, and we're looking to double the amount of CO2 that we've historically had in the atmosphere, and potentially quadruple it by the end of this century, then we're talking about a greenhouse effect that is 10 or 20% stronger than it was in the past. Year after year. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that that's not a good idea.

And you're suggesting that increasing the level of water vapor will lead to more clouds, which will increase the world's albedo, reflecting sunlight into space? What, I wonder, is the gas that you'd suggest is responsible for the majority of the other 95% of greenhouse warming on Earth? Hydrogen? Oxygen? Some... combination of those two maybe??
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will be as one

#89
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#90
Roh234

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CO2 is currently at 392.7ppm which is 0.003927% in our CO2.
Carbon Dioxide represents less than 5% of the current Greenhouse effect,
Man contributes 6% of global CO2 emissions.

The IPCC uses a faulty heat capacity figure, doesn't include the function of the ocean.

The main source of catastrophic heat entailed by the IPCC is the water vapor and methane feedback. They say that an increased heat will be increased water vapor content and catastrophic heat. We say that increased water vapor will create a negative cloud feedback and will have a net cooling effect. The fact that the warming has reduced and flat curving is proving our point.


OK then... 400 parts per million does not sound like a lot of carbon dioxide, but that is quite beside the point. Historic levels of carbon dioxide in the range of 1000-2000ppm coincided with an ice-free Earth during the whole first part of the Cenozoic. Life on Earth (human civilization included) is adapted to the level of carbon dioxide (and consequently, the climate) that preceded the Industrial Revolution (roughly 250ppm). The Earth may indeed become technically a more habitable place once we return the level of CO2 back to 1000ppm. We may lose some coastline, but we'll gain quite a bit of what was once permanently tundra and icy terrain. Trouble is that life on Earth (for the most part) is currently well adapted to specific habitats that don't span far enough to the north. Animals and plants and fungi will begin moving to new habitats that best suit their climactic needs. The first to move will be those that reproduce in large numbers the quickest, which we tend to call "pests". The pests will displace the native life and act as an invasive species. Overall biodiversity will drop. The mass extinction event that we're already in will be exacerbated. The worldwide food web is extensive and strong, but you can only punch so many holes in it before it starts to fail. I'm pretty sure that we ought not to be monkeying with such a complex system..

Even if carbon dioxide represents less than 5% of the greenhouse effect, that's quite a bit for a gas that only makes up .0039% of our atmosphere, don't you think? If man is contributing only 6% of global CO2 emissions, it must be the 6% that is above and beyond what the Earth can handle, because that level (the actual level of CO2 in ppm) has been rising pretty ominously ever since we started ratcheting up our contribution to that 6% level.

If CO2 makes up 5% of our greenhouse effect, and we're looking to double the amount of CO2 that we've historically had in the atmosphere, and potentially quadruple it by the end of this century, then we're talking about a greenhouse effect that is 10 or 20% stronger than it was in the past. Year after year. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that that's not a good idea.

And you're suggesting that increasing the level of water vapor will lead to more clouds, which will increase the world's albedo, reflecting sunlight into space? What, I wonder, is the gas that you'd suggest is responsible for the majority of the other 95% of greenhouse warming on Earth? Hydrogen? Oxygen? Some... combination of those two maybe??


There has been studies that water vapor has a negative feedback or a weak positive feedback loop which is under the the IPCC value they have put. If the heat gets reflected before it hits the ground the greenhouse gases can do nothing to warm the surface. It is also a generally accecpted fact that the power of CO2 lessens as there is more of it in the atmosphere. I'm trying to find it. It was an accecpted, unrefuted peer reviewed paper. Currently we do not have the capability do continue our path for ad-infinitum. Fossil fuels will be uneconomical by the 2040s and curretnly the temperatures are 'waving'.

Posted Image

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#91
Roh234

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I hope you find Mythbusters unbiased.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPRd5GT0v0I

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#92
wjfox

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Charting the “Explosive” Growth in Clean Energy Jobs

Oct 4, 2011 at 9:14am
by Kate Gordon , Matthew Kasper, and Susan Lyon

There’s one thing we know for certain about green jobs: They are real, well-paid, and growing. The jobs that make up the clean energy economy are on the rise when jobs in many other sectors are slipping away or moving overseas. With 14 million unemployed Americans, they are a sign of hope in an otherwise stagnant economy.

In terms of sheer growth, the clean tech sector glows especially brightly. The July 2011 report “Sizing the Clean Economy” from the Brookings Institution and Battelle’s Technology Partnership Practice makes clear that emerging clean tech sectors saw “explosive growth” in recent years.

In particular, the clean economy sector focused on clean energy—especially wind, solar, fuel cell, smart grid, biofuel, and battery companies—grew far more quickly than the economy as a whole.

Read more -- http://thinkprogress...an-energy-jobs/


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#93
Roh234

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Temps droped by 0.03 (i'll be posting on every month.)

Posted Image

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#94
truthiness

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Hmm... so if I'm reading the scale on the left side of that graph properly, this is a temperature departure from the average from 1981-2010 (which is just about all of the years that are represented), and the slope of the graph appears to indicate a warming trend... so the Earth has warmed in the last 30 years? By about .1 degree Celsius per decade? Which would be 1 degree per century? That's even including the Mt Pinatubo cooling? And the Mythbusters confirmed global warming? I'm confused... have you switched sides?
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will be as one

#95
Roh234

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Hmm... so if I'm reading the scale on the left side of that graph properly, this is a temperature departure from the average from 1981-2010 (which is just about all of the years that are represented), and the slope of the graph appears to indicate a warming trend... so the Earth has warmed in the last 30 years? By about .1 degree Celsius per decade? Which would be 1 degree per century? That's even including the Mt Pinatubo cooling?

And the Mythbusters confirmed global warming? I'm confused... have you switched sides?

Mythbusters conformed the heating properties of CO2 at CO2 levels tousands of times higher than doubling the earth's CO2 in the atmosphere.

That graph shows that the warming is within safe warming and the temperature is a plateau form.

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#96
Time_Traveller

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Historic Taj Mahal could collapse in 'five years', environmentalists warn



Read more: http://www.metro.co....n#ixzz1ZuZdbZe6

I hope the Indian government etc do fix it A.S.A.P
I want to go ahead of Father Time with a scythe of my own.

H. G. Wells

#97
OrbitalResonance

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Arctic Sea Ice Continues Decline, Hits Second-Lowest Level

Last month the extent of sea ice covering the Arctic Ocean declined to the second-lowest extent on record.

http://www.nasa.gov/...ce_Decline.html

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. - Carl Sagan


#98
Roh234

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Wow...now Al Gore has become a hinderance to the AGW movement.

http://www.guardian....ther?CMP=twt_gu

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#99
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Couple of solar-related stories...


World's largest solar bridge project gets underway

http://edition.cnn.c...html?hpt=hp_bn6

Posted Image


Solar boat promotes path to cleaner fuel

http://edition.cnn.c...html?hpt=hp_bn6

Posted Image
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#100
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20 minute documentary, narrated by Sigourney Weaver:





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: climate change, energy, environment, renewable energy, nuclear energy, fossil fuels, fusion energy, global warming, sustainability, solar energy

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