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Ukraine Watch Thread

Ukraine politics news

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113 replies to this topic

#1
PhoenixRu

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Link to previous thread

 

 

I decided to create this thread for actual news from Ukraine - the beautiful country with brave freedom-loving people, who dethroned the malevolent dictator and have chosen the way to European values... two years have passed since their Revolution of Dignity (formerly called Euromaidan) and this is the right time to draw some conclusions... During these two years even the most stubborn Ukrainians had to admit that:

 

- Post-revolutionary government consist of the same (if not worse) oligarchs and represent their interests.

- The "reforms" did not even started.

- The standard of living has fallen roughly by half. Only return to pre-Maidan times will take years and decades.

- Utility payments are almost equal to the average salary and will continue to grow (such is demand of IMF).

- EU openly declared that Ukraine will not join them during "at least next 20-25 years".

- USA not going to start WW3 to liberate Crimea for Ukraine.

- Proud moods like "we, the People, overthrew Yanukovych and the same way we'll overthrow the new regime if they not fullfil people's hopes" changed to timid pessimism: "life is shit and becoming worse and worse, but new maidan... no, thanks..." New regime has already demonstrated what will happen with possible protesters.

- Despite all of this, they even more fiercely hate those who predicted them their sad fate two years ago... these rare people called "traitors, Putin's agents and domestic separatists".

 

=== === ===

 

So, in this thread i (and others, of course) will post Ukraine-related news while you, guys, will blame me for lies and spread of Putin's propaganda. To start, let the Ukrainian intellectual elite to share their thoughts:

 

Spoiler

 

What can I say? Ukrainians, you DESERVED this, I am glad that this is happening to you now... there is some fundamental justice in all of this.


Edited by Yuli Ban, 27 June 2017 - 05:00 PM.
Added link to the old Ukrainian Conflict thread

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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#2
PhoenixRu

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Nobody reads this thread, but I'll leave it here. The standard of living in Crimea compared to nearby Ukrainian region, the Kherson oblast (two years ago they were roughly on the same level):

 

Spoiler

 

After two years, Crimea is still one of poorest Russian regions, but already seems extremely rich by Ukrainian standards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#3
Futurist

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I decided to create this thread for actual news from Ukraine - the beautiful country with brave freedom-loving people, who dethroned the malevolent dictator and have chosen the way to European values... two years have passed since their Revolution of Dignity (formerly called Euromaidan) and this is the right time to draw some conclusions... During these two years even the most stubborn Ukrainians had to admit that:

 

- Post-revolutionary government consist of the same (if not worse) oligarchs and represent their interests.

- The "reforms" did not even started.

- The standard of living has fallen roughly by half. Only return to pre-Maidan times will take years and decades.

- Utility payments are almost equal to the average salary and will continue to grow (such is demand of IMF).

- EU openly declared that Ukraine will not join them during "at least next 20-25 years".

- USA not going to start WW3 to liberate Crimea for Ukraine.

- Proud moods like "we, the People, overthrew Yanukovych and the same way we'll overthrow the new regime if they not fullfil people's hopes" changed to timid pessimism: "life is shit and becoming worse and worse, but new maidan... no, thanks..." New regime has already demonstrated what will happen with possible protesters.

- Despite all of this, they even more fiercely hate those who predicted them their sad fate two years ago... these rare people called "traitors, Putin's agents and domestic separatists".

 

=== === ===

 

So, in this thread i (and others, of course) will post Ukraine-related news while you, guys, will blame me for lies and spread of Putin's propaganda. To start, let the Ukrainian intellectual elite to share their thoughts:

 

Spoiler

 

What can I say? Ukrainians, you DESERVED this, I am glad that this is happening to you now... there is some fundamental justice in all of this.

i completely agree with you that Ukraine needs to clean up its act and that this might unfortunately take a lot of time. In turn, Juncker's statement about Ukraine not joining either the EU or NATO for at least 20-25 years certainly makes sense. After all, the EU prefers to see a track record of success ina  country before incorporating this country into the EU. :)

 

Also, though, I have heard that your (as in, Russia's) economy currently isn't exactly in good shape either (Yes, in better shape than Ukraine's, but this isn't really saying much). Plus, you Russians still need to build that bridge to Crimea. Thus, get to it as quickly as possible! :D



#4
Futurist

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Also, though, for what it's worth, the Eurasian Economic Union might actually be better off without Ukraine than with Ukraine--at least for the next 20-25 years.



#5
PhoenixRu

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New pain for Ukrainians:

 

Dutch reject the EU treaty with Ukraine in referendum

 

AgH5fyQwV4E.jpg

 

The Netherlands on Wednesday voted in a referendum against the EU’s treaty with Ukraine by some 62% to 38%. Turnout, with almost 96% of the votes counted, was around 32%, which means the government has to reconsider its support of the treaty in light of the public vote. The referendum had to draw at least 30% support to have any legal weight.

 
Poor Ukro-nationalists. Only yesterday, they hypocritically swore to "eternal love and brotherhood" between Ukraine and Holland and hoped for a low turnout, and today they are in rage and despair (another "zrada") and blame those same "junkies and fagots". Reading today's Ukrainian internets going to be interesting.
 
PS i know, the real importance of this poll is not so high, this is rather a symbolic slap.

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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#6
PhoenixRu

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Small update to previous post. Dutch celebrating the results of "Ukrainian" referendum:

 

 

For Ukrainians, the 7 April 2016 has become the Day of Pain. Till now, they lived in the world of illusions and self-deception created by their own media: "Whole world with us, they admire us, soon you will see! Soon!!!". Right in the day of referendum, only 1 or 2 hours before first real results, their media were busy creating fake exit-polls like "Breaking! 59% voted for Ukraine! Victory!!!" They laughed on "stupid moscals, brainwashed by Putin" who tried to explain them the real picture...

 

...and then they faced with Reality & this was so damn painful. Ukrainian internet is still filled with this pain.  :biggrin:


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#7
Futurist

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New pain for Ukrainians:

 

Dutch reject the EU treaty with Ukraine in referendum

 

AgH5fyQwV4E.jpg

 

The Netherlands on Wednesday voted in a referendum against the EU’s treaty with Ukraine by some 62% to 38%. Turnout, with almost 96% of the votes counted, was around 32%, which means the government has to reconsider its support of the treaty in light of the public vote. The referendum had to draw at least 30% support to have any legal weight.

 
Poor Ukro-nationalists. Only yesterday, they hypocritically swore to "eternal love and brotherhood" between Ukraine and Holland and hoped for a low turnout, and today they are in rage and despair (another "zrada") and blame those same "junkies and fagots". Reading today's Ukrainian internets going to be interesting.
 
PS i know, the real importance of this poll is not so high, this is rather a symbolic slap.

Why exactly did the Netherlands reject the Ukrainian Association Agreement with the European Union, though?



#8
MarcZ

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Two reasons:

 

1) Some within the Netherlands argued that the deal was beyond a simple association deal about trade and it would also encourage facilitating arms and other military support to Ukraine which many view as the most corrupt state in Europe. (Rightly so.)

 

2) The referendum became a proxy vote on the E.U. and much of the turnout was by people opposed to the E.U. and they wanted to make a show of strength of their Euroscepticism to send the E.U. a message. 

 

This second point as little to do with Ukraine itself. Most Dutch probably really don't care about Ukraine either way and if people aren't invested in a topic they probably won't vote on it. Therefore you had two types of people voting in this referendum Europsceptics and avid European integration supporters which is a shrinking contingent on the continent these days. 



#9
PhoenixRu

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May you live in interesting times.

 

And the most interesting thing in these interesting times is that their future bitter fate was more or less visible from the very beginning. In late 2013 - early 2014 I've read a lot of predictions of their post-maidan future but they didn't even wanted to listen or discuss them: "buahahaha, lalalala, you're just stupid envoius slaves and vatnilks, you can't accept that we're leaving you and joining Europe. Bye-Bye! Long live Ukraine, glory to heroes! ...etc" It was amazing combination of arrogance, euphoria and infantilism.

 

So, let them go down their road till the very end. Their unenviable future was clear two years ago & is even more clear today:

 

CfiR0R9WcAAupbQ.jpg

 

Just look at this! Zero growth in 2013, minus 7% in 2014, minus another 11% in 2015... i'm eager to see what will happen in 2016. "Fortunatelly" gdp per capita doesn't falling that fast since population is also decreasing.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#10
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Ukraine PM Yatseniuk tenders resignation

10 April 2016

 

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk tendered his resignation on Sunday in a televised broadcast.

"I took the decision to resign as prime minister of Ukraine. On Tuesday, April 12, I will submit it to parliament. My decision is based on a several reasons - the political crisis in the government has been unleashed artificially, the desire to change one person has blinded politicians and paralyzed their will to bring about real changes in the country," he said.

 

http://www.reuters.c..._source=twitter

 

I doubt Ukraine needs this now, It would be interesting to see what happens to it now.


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#11
PhoenixRu

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I doubt Ukraine needs this now, 

 

Such was demand of West (USA, EU and IMF): no new loans before "serious reforms and fight against corruption" and resignation of Yatsenyuk should be the first sign of those reforms. Plus, he was probably the most unpopular PM in Ukrainian history. Anyway i don't think his resignation will lead to any serious changes (other than further concentration of power in hands of Poroshenko).


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#12
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I doubt Ukraine needs this now, 

 

Such was demand of West (USA, EU and IMF): no new loans before "serious reforms and fight against corruption" and resignation of Yatsenyuk should be the first sign of those reforms. Plus, he was probably the most unpopular PM in Ukrainian history. Anyway i don't think his resignation will lead to any serious changes (other than further concentration of power in hands of Poroshenko).

 

 

Ah, More power for the President of Ukraine then.


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#13
docgonzo

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Ukraine PM Yatseniuk tenders resignation

10 April 2016

 

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk tendered his resignation on Sunday in a televised broadcast.

"I took the decision to resign as prime minister of Ukraine. On Tuesday, April 12, I will submit it to parliament. My decision is based on a several reasons - the political crisis in the government has been unleashed artificially, the desire to change one person has blinded politicians and paralyzed their will to bring about real changes in the country," he said.

 

http://www.reuters.c..._source=twitter

 

I doubt Ukraine needs this now, It would be interesting to see what happens to it now.

 

Beat me to it! Was just about to post.


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#14
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Sorry, Dragon It was on Twitter and checked on here if it had so I posted it.


I want to go ahead of Father Time with a scythe of my own.

H. G. Wells

#15
PhoenixRu

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Interesting news from BBC:

 

SHOCK CLAIM: Ukrainian fighter jet shot down Malaysia Airlines' MH17

 

Do you still remember this long squabble we had two years ago, about "who and why shot down the poor Malaysian plane"? If my memory serves, i told that answer is obvious & that West will have to swallow this unpleasant answer, sooner or later. I only though it will take about 5-10 years. But something has changed much earlier and:

 

1) Suddenly, western court decided that Russian state no longer needs to pay 50 bln to Yukos shareholders. Pleasant, but purely symbolic verdict since nobody would pay them these money anyways.

2) Suddenly, other western court arrested the property of Ukrainian oligarchs in favor of Russia.

3) And finally, this ridiqulous article. Suddenly, they discovered some "new and shocking" facts Russian experts told about during these 2 years but nobody wanted to even hear.

 

What does this all mean? Big White Gentlemen disappointed by their little Ukrainian friend and sending him a message? Or, this all is a result of some covert deal? What local political experts and conspiracy theorists think about all of this?


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#16
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"German investigative journalist Billy Six interviewed 100 witnesses, seven of whom said they saw a fighter jet."

 

I think this sentence sums up the whole article really.


Everything is predefined.

#17
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"German investigative journalist Billy Six interviewed 100 witnesses, seven of whom said they saw a fighter jet."

 

I think this sentence sums up the whole article really.

 

So, let me continue... if only seven witnesses noticed something strange and other 93 didn't - these seven should be considered as liars? Interesting kind of logic  :biggrin:


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#18
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Interesting kind of logic  

 

Well it is your thinking after all.


Everything is predefined.

#19
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"German investigative journalist Billy Six interviewed 100 witnesses, seven of whom said they saw a fighter jet."

 

I think this sentence sums up the whole article really.

 

So, let me continue... if only seven witnesses noticed something strange and other 93 didn't - these seven should be considered as liars? Interesting kind of logic  :biggrin:

 

Well not really interesting kind of logic i would coin it as "logical-logic". After all what is the alternative if we consider this black and white? If we consider it gray then perhaps we should not consider them liars but rather doubt what it was they saw. 


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#20
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Interesting kind of logic  

 

Well it is your thinking after all.

 

Again: group of people walked up and down the street, three of them said they paid attention to big green bus, other five said they didn't noticed anything strange and unusual. Does big green bus exist or not?


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.






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