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Ukraine Watch Thread

Ukraine politics news

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#61
Futurist

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Dangerous Desperation in Kiev

 

https://www.thenatio...e-new-cold-war/

 

Extract:

 

 

Driven by Kiev’s desperation—as the Ukrainian economy tanks, the IMF has again refused billions of dollars of assistance previously promised; Europe increasingly is withdrawing its support, unpersuaded by Kiev’s denial of having sent commandos to Russia’s Crimean peninsula; and Ukrainian President Poroshenko has been excluded from September’s G20 meeting—the government is frantically trying to regain unconditional Western support. (Even Vice President Biden, the overseer of Washington’s “Ukrainian project,” appears to be worried about Kiev’s recklessness.) Kiev will not or cannot negotiate an end to the Ukrainian civil/proxy war and thus seems determined to provoke a larger war with Russia to regain Western support; but its repeated claims that Putin is preparing a “new invasion” lack logic and no longer seem credible to Kiev’s former unconditional Western supporters.

Frankly, Ukraine really should begin cleaning up its act; indeed, forget about both Crimea and the Donbass for the time being* and worry about fixing its own economy instead (including getting rid of corruption, of course). :(

*For the record, my own thoughts on both Crimea and the Donbass (as well as on various other territories worldwide) is this--hold a completely free and fair referendum there (which includes allowing all of the displaced people from there to vote in this referendum) and honor the results of this referendum regardless of their outcome.



#62
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Another victim of "Minsk agreements" :

 

BREAKING: LEGENDARY DPR COMMANDER “MOTOROLA” KILLED IN DONBASS

 

RIP Motorola... Russia will remember you & i hope your death will not pass unpunished.

Are you sure that Russia didn't kill him for being too unpredictable and/or disobedient, though?



#63
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IMHO this should lead to some kind of social explosion.

You mean another Maidan Revolution?



#64
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Not about Ukraine, but related. Miserable attempt of "maidan" in Kazakhstan, 21 May 2016. The same technology, the same driving forces, similar slogans... their slogan was "Shal Ket!" i.e. "Old man, get out!", but Kazakh "Old Man" wasn't even close to Yanukovych, plus Kazakh people turned out to be wiser than Ukrainians. And here are the results:

 

 

That's what should has been done in Ukraine 3 years ago. Few dozen arrests, several broken noses and ribs of "peaceful protesters" - an acceptable price to avoid civil war.

To be fair, though, Nazarbayev appears to have managed Kazakhstan much better than Yanukovych managed Ukraine.



#65
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You mean another Maidan Revolution?

 

Definitely not. New maidan is impossible because:

 

1) No more sponsors and organizers to gather and lead the crowd, unlike the previous one.

2) New regime is not soft and undecisive Yanukovich, they are not afraid of (protester's) blood.

 

So, i do not expext any organized protests, but rather the growing chaos, violence and despair and eventually the disintegration of statehood.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#66
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You mean another Maidan Revolution?

 

Definitely not. New maidan is impossible because:

 

1) No more sponsors and organizers to gather and lead the crowd, unlike the previous one.

2) New regime is not soft and undecisive Yanukovich, they are not afraid of (protester's) blood.

 

So, i do not expext any organized protests, but rather the growing chaos, violence and despair and eventually the disintegration of statehood.

Can't #1 change, though?
 

Also, do you have a source for #2, please?

In addition to this, out of curiosity--do you believe that Russia will annex all of "Novorossiya" in the event of a total Ukrainian collapse?



#67
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Can't #1 change, though?

Also, do you have a source for #2, please?

In addition to this, out of curiosity--do you believe that Russia will annex all of "Novorossiya" in the event of a total Ukrainian collapse?

 

1) Who knows? Though the only possible organizers are fascists (Biletsky and his "volunteer batalions").

 

2) What exact source you need? There were many cases during these three years. A lot of people were killed or "commited suicide".

 

3) I hope no. This should has been done in 2014 (alongside with Crimea) but not today and not tomorrow when/if Ukraine will start becoming new Somalia.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#68
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Can't #1 change, though?

Also, do you have a source for #2, please?

In addition to this, out of curiosity--do you believe that Russia will annex all of "Novorossiya" in the event of a total Ukrainian collapse?

 

1) Who knows? Though the only possible organizers are fascists (Biletsky and his "volunteer batalions").

 

2) What exact source you need? There were many cases during these three years. A lot of people were killed or "commited suicide".

 

3) I hope no. This should has been done in 2014 (alongside with Crimea) but not today and not tomorrow when/if Ukraine will start becoming new Somalia.

1. What about opposition mainstream Ukrainian politicians, though?
 

2. Those were journalists--not protesters.

 

3. Why exactly is right now a bad time for Russia to do this, though?



#69
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1. What about opposition mainstream Ukrainian politicians, though?

2. Those were journalists--not protesters.

 

3. Why exactly is right now a bad time for Russia to do this, though?

 

1. Who? I don't see any real opposition in modern Ukraine, just a few oligarchic clans and cliques inside of regime.

 

2. Not only journalists... Exactly for this reason, there will be no any any serious mass protests. Ukrainians may shout how proud and freedom-loving people they are, but deep inside they KNOW what awaits them if they'll dare to rise against new regime. Something like: "crowd of anti-Ukrainian activists and domestic separatists was dispersed with minimum use of force... alas, some of mentioned criminals shot themselves while some others barricaded in nearby buildings and then burned themselves"

 

3. Time was missed. Now we have to seriously prepare for other war.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#70
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Fresques on the walls of president's Poroshenko personal church... no comment:

 

Spoiler

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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#71
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Meanwhile we're coming to another turning point: Ukrainian regime openly announced the missile launches in Russian airspace. And this is already the clear act of war!

 

This may seem mad and suicidal, but actually doesn't. since Ukrainian economy and standards of living deteriorating and last hopes for "European dream" evaporating, their ruling regime desperately needs a scapegoat. And this scapegoat is obvious - Russia. Usually, such regimes seeking for "small victorious war" but in case of Ukraine, even the "small disastrous war" will serve the same purpose.

 

They already tried to cause "Russian invasion" sending their terrorist groups in Crimea. This didn't worked: all those groups were either destroyed or caught, but Russia (as a whole) did not react. So, they switched to something more serious and impressive. Now Russia have two not so good options.

 

1) Do not react, that will only prove our "weakness" and encourage Ukrainian regime for further, even more serious provocations.

 

2) React, that will once again prove our "aggressiveness" in the eyes of "world community" and will be exactly what they (and their sponsors) want.

 

The deadline is tomorrow, 1 december & i'm very curious to see how this all ends.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#72
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The deadline is tomorrow, 1 december & i'm very curious to see how this all ends.

 

Exacly as i thought Ukraine didn't even gave any answer to warnings & their launches "began as planned". Meanwhile:

 

The Black Sea Fleet warships, integrated into the Southern Military District air defense system, took up positions off the west coast of Crimea during Ukraine's missile firings scheduled for December 1-2...
 
The Russian air transport agency Rosaviatsia said last week that Ukraine unilaterally decided to hold missile firing exercises near Simferopol in violation of international agreements...
 
According to the latest information from the Russian Transport Ministry, Russia still received no reaction from Ukraine to their letter on missile launches in airspeace near Crimea.
 

Yes, i fully understand, Russia is calm and peace-loving country, but sometimes it goes too far. If we will not react right now, the encouraged idiots in Kiev will just try again, and again, and again... you can't avoid war if this is exactly what other side striving for.

 

=== === ===

 

UPD Ukraine stepped back after Russian MOD "with deep respect" officially promised to destroy Ukrainian missile pads.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#73
PhoenixRu

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Just a picture, nothing more... the situation, as it seemed in February 2014:

 

C06LpivWEAAXIsG.jpg

 

Three years have passed. As it turned out, the huge White-Blue-Red ship was OK and didn't even going to sink... now the ship disappeared beyond the horizon, while the idiot and traitor boatman is now alone in cold and stormy sea. The worse, he have no idea where to go: the shiny and beautiful shore he saw earlier turned out to be just a mirage.

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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#74
Pisiu369

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Meanwhile we're coming to another turning point: Ukrainian regime openly announced the missile launches in Russian airspace. And this is already the clear act of war!

 

This may seem mad and suicidal, but actually doesn't. since Ukrainian economy and standards of living deteriorating and last hopes for "European dream" evaporating, their ruling regime desperately needs a scapegoat. And this scapegoat is obvious - Russia. Usually, such regimes seeking for "small victorious war" but in case of Ukraine, even the "small disastrous war" will serve the same purpose.

 

They already tried to cause "Russian invasion" sending their terrorist groups in Crimea. This didn't worked: all those groups were either destroyed or caught, but Russia (as a whole) did not react. So, they switched to something more serious and impressive. Now Russia have two not so good options.

 

1) Do not react, that will only prove our "weakness" and encourage Ukrainian regime for further, even more serious provocations.

 

2) React, that will once again prove our "aggressiveness" in the eyes of "world community" and will be exactly what they (and their sponsors) want.

 

The deadline is tomorrow, 1 december & i'm very curious to see how this all ends.

Small victorious war just like when the USSR tried to invade Poland and got stopped in the miracle of Vistula?



#75
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Small victorious war just like when the USSR tried to invade Poland and got stopped in the miracle of Vistula?

 

Do you mean war of 1920? Well, actually it was Poland who invaded the weakened and war-torn Russia, and USSR didn not even existed by then... from wiki:

 

 

Poland's Chief of State, Józef Piłsudski, felt the time was right to expand Polish borders as far east as feasible, to be followed by a Polish-led Intermarium federation of East-Central European states as a bulwark against the re-emergence of German and Russian imperialism. Lenin, meanwhile, saw Poland as the bridge the Red Army had to cross to assist other communist movements and bring about other European revolutions. By 1919, Polish forces had taken control of much of Western Ukraine, emerging victorious from the Polish–Ukrainian War...etc,etc,etc


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#76
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Small victorious war just like when the USSR tried to invade Poland and got stopped in the miracle of Vistula?

 

Do you mean war of 1920? Well, actually it was Poland who invaded the weakened and war-torn Russia, and USSR didn not even existed by then... from wiki:

 

 

Poland's Chief of State, Józef Piłsudski, felt the time was right to expand Polish borders as far east as feasible, to be followed by a Polish-led Intermarium federation of East-Central European states as a bulwark against the re-emergence of German and Russian imperialism. Lenin, meanwhile, saw Poland as the bridge the Red Army had to cross to assist other communist movements and bring about other European revolutions. By 1919, Polish forces had taken control of much of Western Ukraine, emerging victorious from the Polish–Ukrainian War...etc,etc,etc

 

Damn it, my mistake. But is that what you meant by Small Victory War?



#77
caltrek

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Biden's Visit to Ukraine Sends Shivers Down Kiev's Spine

https://sputniknews....ce=farkexchange

 

 

During US Vice President Joe Biden's recent visit to Kiev, Ukrainian leader Petro Poroshenko said his country is ready to cooperate with the new US administration. However, in general, there is a pessimistic sentiment among Ukrainian politicians regarding the new US President and his future politics, political expert Alexander Dudchak told Sputnik.

According to Dudchak, Kiev is likely to lose significant part of financial support from Washington with the new US administration in power. Ukrainian politicians are in general quite pessimistic about the future of Ukraine after Donald Trump's inauguration, he stated.

 

"I think that with the new American administration Ukraine won't be on the top of US agenda," the expert told Sputnik. "When it became clear that Trump won the US election, it caused sadness in Ukraine and serious confusion in political circles. Now they are trying to figure out how to live, if the funding will be cut, what they can count for and how they should adapt to the new conditions. We can say that the Ukrainian political community is now pessimistic about it all," Dudchak told Sputnik.

 

A similar point of view was expressed by German Frankfurter Rundschau newspaper. According to the media source, Poroshenko fears possible rapprochement between Russia and the US.

 

"In the war-torn Ukraine, the country's leader Petro Poroshenko is not quite happy about the presidential nomination of the new US president Donald Trump. Kiev fears that the interests of Ukraine could be sacrificed for the sake of an agreement between Trump and Kremlin chief Vladimir Putin," the article said.

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#78
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When it became clear that Trump won the US election, it caused sadness in Ukraine and serious confusion in political circles. Now they are trying to figure out how to live...

 

Well, they have all reasons to worry after this (one of MANY examples):

 

C2oBaHRXEAIi7bo.jpg

 

"It seems Trump didn't hear our friendly advice to leave Ukraine alone & therefore he will lose these elections. The New Yourk Times started an investigation dedicated to Paul Manafort (the head of Trump's election headquarters), to his activity in Ukraine and money he received from Yanukovych. I don't know will Hillary send to us the team of journalists or not, but anyway, here in Ukraine Trump may find his grave. And I warned you, Donald: not poke your nose into Ukraine, it will end badly. And now, will you dismiss Manafort or not, everything will go the wrong way."

 

No wonder if today, when indeed "everything went wrong", these people are terrified. They have already removed all their naive and arrogant threats and dressed into right clothes (yeah, this is the same Taras Berezovets who wrote the post above):

 

Spoiler

 

...but i'm afraid their servilism will not work. Not this time.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#79
Yuli Ban

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War Returns

Pro-Russian seperatists attack Avdiivka, Ukraine
 
NATO calls on Russia to stop violence in Ukraine, as both sides move heavy artillery close to front line
 
NATO issues dire Ukraine warning as death toll hits 19
 
'It's so much worse': Renewed fighting in Ukraine pushes town to brink of humanitarian catastrophe


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Nobody gonna beat my drone, it's gonna shoot into the sky!

#80
Sciencerocks

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Expect russia to attack and start a lot more wars now that they have their boy in office.


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