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The Future of U.S. - Russian Relations

United States Russia Vladimir Putin Hillary Clinton International diplomacy

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257 replies to this topic

#241
caltrek

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So, Putin wants a war with a country whose president he helped elect...and I thought the United States was hard to get along with.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#242
Sciencerocks

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So, Putin wants a war with a country whose president he helped elect...and I thought the United States was hard to get along with.

 

Probably one of the reasons why he wanted Trump...He is likely to lash out with full on war.


To follow my work on tropical cyclones

http://z7.invisionfr...php?showforum=1 Archives...Probably the best in the entire world within my opinion -->>> http://z7.invisionfr...php?showforum=4


#243
PhoenixRu

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=== no, nothing ===



#244
caltrek

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Like I said before the election: Clinton may be bad for U.S - Russia relations, but Trump will be worse.

 

Putin’s Bet on a Trump Presidency Backfires Spectacularly

 

http://www.msn.com/e...=ob-fb-enus-280

 

 

A little more than a year after the Russian effort to interfere in the American presidential election came to light, the diplomatic fallout — an unraveling of the relationship between Moscow and Washington on a scale not seen in decades — is taking its toll.

 

President Vladimir V. Putin bet that Donald J. Trump, who had spoken fondly of Russia and its authoritarian leader for years, would treat his nation as Mr. Putin has longed to have it treated by the West. That is, as the superpower it once was, or at least a major force to be reckoned with, from Syria to Europe, and boasting a military revived after two decades of neglect.

 

That bet has now backfired, spectacularly. If the sanctions overwhelmingly passed by Congress last week sent any message to Moscow, it was that Mr. Trump’s hands are now tied in dealing with Moscow, probably for years to come.

 

 

Just weeks after the two leaders spent hours in seemingly friendly conversation in Hamburg, Germany, the prospect of the kinds of deals Mr. Trump once mused about in interviews seem more distant than ever. Congress is not ready to forgive the annexation of Crimea, nor allow extensive reinvestment in Russian energy. The new sanctions were passed by a coalition of Democrats who blame Mr. Putin for contributing to Hillary Clinton’s defeat and Republicans fearful that their president misunderstands who he is dealing with in Moscow.

So with his decision to order that hundreds of American diplomats and Russians working for the American Embassy leave their posts, Mr. Putin, known as a great tactician but not a great strategist, has changed course again. For now, American officials and outside experts said on Sunday, he seems to believe his greater leverage lies in escalating the dispute, Cold War-style, rather than subtly trying to manipulate events with a mix of subterfuge, cyberattacks and information warfare.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#245
caltrek

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President Trump Signs Russian Sanctions Into Law

 

https://www.courthou...-sanctions-law/

 

 

 

President Trump signed bipartisan legislation on Wednesday imposing sanctions on Russia and limiting his own authority to lift them, a measure that has already escalated tension with the Russian government and produced retaliation against the American embassy there.

 

New sanctions signed into law also target Iran and North Korea.

 

After the Senate passed the sanctions package last week the White House indicated Trump would sign the legislation, though even if he had not the measure cleared Congress with such wide margins that lawmakers could have overridden the president’s veto.

 

Trump reportedly added a signing statement, which indicates how the president feels about a piece of legislation but does not carry with it the force of law, expressing his concern about the bill’s impact on his foreign policy decision-making, according to Politico.

 

The White House did not immediately return a request to confirm the reports and has not released the details of the signing.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#246
Wolfbane

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These Russians, they are a winter people, da?

But this fresh new Greater Pack of America, they are all born of springtime. Cocksure and aggressive, for only ever have they known green pastures. Well-fed and bovine. Food for the alpha wolves...

The Russians know this. See how even your resident Russian here has chosen the visage of a wolfdog! There are no relations between the Greater Packs of the United States and Mother Russia. There are only wolves, and there are cows, and pigs... pigs with guns...


Lo, my how like the sheep you move

And the wolves torture them for days

That's just Nature my friends...


#247
PhoenixRu

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See how even your resident Russian here has chosen the visage of a wolfdog!

 

I just love dogs, that's why... and i'm not the only "Russian resident" here, rather the last one. Others have disappeared one by one. And, frankly, i'm going to follow them.



#248
Wolfbane

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A shame. Why is that?


Lo, my how like the sheep you move

And the wolves torture them for days

That's just Nature my friends...


#249
PhoenixRu

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Tiredness, alienation, and all that...



#250
Omosoap

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@PhoenixRu I'm sorry to hear that. Even though I don't always understand your perspective, I do still believe diverse voices are needed on forums to help increase knowledge and exposure to other worldviews. It makes people's lives richer. Unfortunately, maybe people on forums eventually become reclusive bubbles that shun outsiders. So, I'm sorry that you may not feel welcomed, even attacked sometimes. It is unfortunately frequent on forums. And, I suppose world events don't help. Humans can be so petty. I know I can be too. My curse/blessing? is being able to at least try to walk in other people's shoes, when my mind reminds me of that possibility. I can still be tribal, but I try to remind myself to remain open. Your perspective is of value, even if in some places it is not recognized as such. I am an outsider in many other ways, so I can understand how that feels.


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#251
LWFlouisa

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I think Putin expected Trump to be just like any other Russian oligarch (over whom he's consolidated all control) but failed to realize that Trump is Donald Fucking Trump. Americans didn't get our reputation of being insane cowboys from nowhere. If you wish to control an American, do it through the dollar. 

 

Like the Chinese. Trump's careful with China because he recognizes how much we need each other monetarily. If, by some arcane black magic, a Chinese hard landing does actually occur, there'd be a second Great Recession within a month everywhere else. For a billionaire like Trump, a recession from which he can't profit is the worst possible thing imaginable. Any dirt the Russians have on him, he can brush off through hypernormalization. But touch his fucking coffers, and you done fuck't up, boy. 

 

 

America and Russia have never been huge trading partners. Even at the height of the first Cold War, trade between the US and Russia was marginal at best. That's why the Soviet collapse had so little effect on the American economy; we weren't losing out on anything. 

China's America's largest trading partner, edging out even Canada. Vice versa is true. Even though the CCP's only nominally communist, they're still communist and thus our ideological enemy. Yet we don't believe we're locked in a Cold War with China precisely because we could never survive losing our #1 trading partner. Word of advice— never fight against the man who pays you unless you expect to lose or if you have hundreds of others on your side. That's why unions are a thing, both in the workplace and on a geopolitical scale. America is cutting itself out of any real potential international unions, so we're only going to grow evermore dependent on China (ironically, considering "AMERICA FIRST").  

 

 

Some say that the present situation resembles the era before World War I, and that it's foolish to say "we won't go to war because of international trade" because people said that then too. And I won't say anything on that subject because it is generally true that international trade was high before 1914. Nothing like the present, but still impressively global. 

But while the importance of global trade won't necessarily stop a war, it will make the fallout much more brutal. If America drags itself into a war with China, there will be an economic depression. The same couldn't be said of a (non-nuclear) war with Russia.

 

Do you think a theoretically WWIII would spawn a direct sequel like WWI for WWII? I guess in a way WWIII would be a non-linear sequel to WWII.


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#252
Wolfbane

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No, there shall be no Third World War... Likely there shall not be such a bloodletting again within our lifetimes.

Since the Second World War the Greater Packs have all agreed to a new code. Never again shall they march through the territories and borderlands of their adversaries.

Instead they will play games with the lesser countries.

Those who win take the spoils. Those who lose may live to try again another day.

All this talk of nuclear war is mere bluster... except with the rabid wolf called Kim. And even he is on a tight leash... He serves the purpose of terrifying the sheep and cattle into line.

Putin knows this game well. He is the enemy of the Trump pack but they are friendlier than one might think...

Lo, my how like the sheep you move

And the wolves torture them for days

That's just Nature my friends...


#253
Pisiu369

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No, there shall be no Third World War... Likely there shall not be such a bloodletting again within our lifetimes.

Since the Second World War the Greater Packs have all agreed to a new code. Never again shall they march through the territories and borderlands of their adversaries.

Instead they will play games with the lesser countries.

Those who win take the spoils. Those who lose may live to try again another day.

All this talk of nuclear war is mere bluster... except with the rabid wolf called Kim. And even he is on a tight leash... He serves the purpose of terrifying the sheep and cattle into line.

Putin knows this game well. He is the enemy of the Trump pack but they are friendlier than one might think...

This is exactly what they said after WW1, "War to end all wars". Then a couple of years later they had another World War. You should never take peace as granted.



#254
Wolfbane

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Circumstances were different that time... Another war was needed to clear the decks. Now there is a new structure in place. You shall not have another like it until the structure folds.

Lo, my how like the sheep you move

And the wolves torture them for days

That's just Nature my friends...


#255
Pisiu369

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Circumstances were different that time... Another war was needed to clear the decks. Now there is a new structure in place. You shall not have another like it until the structure folds.

And when do you think the structure will fold?



#256
Wolfbane

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Once it reaches its apex, and steals the full power of the sun from the sky.

Lo, my how like the sheep you move

And the wolves torture them for days

That's just Nature my friends...


#257
Wolfbane

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Tiredness, alienation, and all that...

No, this is the wrong response, Phoenix ice-husky.

Long has your pack stood stalwart and faced reality even when all the other packs had abandoned themselves to falsehoods and luxuries.

Stay. Your words are needed. Your suffering builds strength. In time, you will be vindicated...
  • Yuli Ban likes this

Lo, my how like the sheep you move

And the wolves torture them for days

That's just Nature my friends...


#258
caltrek

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Russia Is Continuing Its Cyberattack on America Right Now

 

http://www.motherjon...rica-right-now/

 

Introduction:

 

President Donald Trump trashed the Russia investigation once again last week at a rally in West Virginia, saying that “there were no Russians in our campaign” and denouncing “a total fabrication” to enthralled supporters. “Have you seen any Russians in West Virginia or Ohio or Pennsylvania?” he asked mockingly. “Are there any Russians here tonight? Any Russians?”

 

There may well have been, for anyone in the crowd scrolling through a smartphone.

 

As Trump spoke, Russian-linked social-media networks were busy attacking Trump’s national security adviser, Gen. H.R. McMaster, using the same type of digital operations that the Kremlin deployed against the 2016 presidential election. Russian-linked Twitter accounts had for days been piling onto a growing campaign by the so-called alt-right to purge Trump’s national security adviser—who is viewed by some of the president’s base as a “globalist tool” and a threat to their hardline nationalist agenda. Meanwhile, recent content from Russian state media RT and Sputnik has included stories such as “What’s Behind Trump’s Striking Back at Washington’s ‘Russophobes’”—a piece that went on at length about McMaster “falling out of favor with Trump.”

 

Some of Russia’s digital efforts to continue to disrupt and influence US politics are now more in the open, thanks to “Hamilton 68,” a new dashboard tracing Russian-linked information warfare on Twitter. A project of the nonpartisan Alliance for Securing Democracy, Hamilton tracks 600 accounts in real time, analyzing “a network of accounts linked to and participating in Russian influence campaigns,” according to the site.

The dashboard tracker shows that #FireMcMaster became a top trending hashtag on their global list last week. As the New York Times reported Friday, the #FireMcMaster hashtag was tweeted more than 50,000 times in the previous 48 hours. “Echoing the drumbeat were social media organs tied to the Russian government,” the Times said. The dashboard also shows that each day the Russian-led effort delivered some 20,000 to 25,000 tweets.
 

putin-siberia-aug-5-2017.jpg?w=836

 

Vladimir Putin vacationing in Siberia in early August.

Alexei Nikolsky/Sputnik, via AP


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: United States, Russia, Vladimir Putin, Hillary Clinton, International diplomacy

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