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The Future of U.S. - Russian Relations

United States Russia Vladimir Putin Hillary Clinton International diplomacy

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#21
Unity

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Russia has basically f---ed itself because Putin is more interested in exploiting the country than building up a modern economy in a manner similar to say what Dubai or the UAE is attempting.  It's actually really sad because Russia has so much potential and untapped resources, but Putin decided to pretend it is the 1960s and "fend off the West for the glory of mother Russia" instead of doing what is in the best long term interest of his people. 



#22
Lunix688

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Russia has basically f---ed itself because Putin is more interested in exploiting the country than building up a modern economy in a manner similar to say what Dubai or the UAE is attempting.  It's actually really sad because Russia has so much potential and untapped resources, but Putin decided to pretend it is the 1960s and "fend off the West for the glory of mother Russia" instead of doing what is in the best long term interest of his people. 

13292859_10153427687102260_2141555973_n.


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"Liberterianism is a mental disease. A national health crisis and a threat to the future of this country...Worse than the threat from terrorism, asteroids, disease and yes global warming.
It is mindless anti-government idiocy. If it isn't turned back I predict the end of this country as a world power. Simply put the need to educate our entire population like any sane country is sen as wrong by the cult that practice this foolish idiocy. So is simple workers rights, child labor and every other sane policy of the modern world."
-Matthew
 
"The man who does not value himself, cannot value anything or anyone.”
-Ayn Rand, The Virtue of Selfishness: A New Concept of Egoism
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"The world runs on individuals pursuing their self interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a, from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way."
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#23
Unity

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Yeah, and when Russia's oil wealth vanishes they will have no other major industries to fall back on just like the middle east.  So their growth has not been in their long term best interest.  Let's not forget his crackdown and murder of journalists and the 11,000 dead in the Ukraine conflict.  Russia's long term future will not be good under autocratic rule



#24
kjaggard

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so rather than the continued feelings people have been citing I did an informal survey of the people I know and network with online. One is dating a russian, one wants me to remember to tell any that I talk to that she really likes russians and their culture (and she's the sort who is more likely to be crass and vulgar when asked about her opinions on any society), and one says "Politicians are the only reason we would have a conflict with Russia." the rest of my community either doesn't feel one way or the other about russia, or doesn't know how to respond to the implication that western countries don't respect russia and russians and/or wish to fight them.


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#25
PhoenixRu

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Yeah, and when Russia's oil wealth vanishes they will have no other major industries to fall back on just like the middle east.

 

Really? No other major industries? This is nothing but myth, and here is reality (share of oil export in country's GDP):

 

365px-%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D1%8D%D0

 

 

Big picture: 15 years of Putin

 

Here i agree with Lunix688: to get the moral right to blame Putin, you firstly should get an experience of living in Russia of 1990-s.

 

Let's not forget his crackdown and murder of journalists and the 11,000 dead in the Ukraine conflict.

 

We'll not forget, nor forgive the deaths of Russians in Ukraine, i assure you!

 

Actually, this is only thing i can really blame Putin for: he's too lenient and patient towards those who came to power in Ukraine. If he was a bit more decisive in 2014, this Ukrainian regime would have been quickly destroyed and thousands of Russian lives would be saved.



#26
Unity

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Yeah, and when Russia's oil wealth vanishes they will have no other major industries to fall back on just like the middle east.

 

Really? No other major industries? This is nothing but myth, and here is reality (share of oil export in country's GDP):

 

365px-%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D1%8D%D0

 

 

Big picture: 15 years of Putin

 

Here i agree with Lunix688: to get the moral right to blame Putin, you firstly should get an experience of living in Russia of 1990-s.

 

Let's not forget his crackdown and murder of journalists and the 11,000 dead in the Ukraine conflict.

 

We'll not forget, nor forgive the deaths of Russians in Ukraine, i assure you!

 

Actually, this is only thing i can really blame Putin for: he's too lenient and patient towards those who came to power in Ukraine. If he was a bit more decisive in 2014, this Ukrainian regime would have been quickly destroyed and thousands of Russian lives would be saved.

 

Fair enough, a bit of hyperbole on my part, but Putin is really screwing you guys.  You likely won't be on top of the cloud and IoT revolution because while you have many educated Russians (some of the best hackers are Russian) there is no Russian silicon valley or biomedical tech sector, etc You're not at the forefront of it.  Neither is China, but they are becoming a global leader in computing for example and some other industries.  Look at Japan for example, which is a center of tech, but because of poor resources among other factors their economy has been on a roller coaster for 20 years.  Once that oil money dries up what will Russia pivot to?  Once it realizes its problem it they will likely be behind the curve



#27
PyroRobot

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Putin's Russia will annex more territory possibly. Probably in Ukraine, Georgia. will continue to be a source of tension between the US and Russia


I am done goodbye.


#28
PhoenixRu

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I'll just leave it here:

 



#29
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I'll just leave it here:

 

https://charlierose.com/videos/28568

 

full video here of the interview.


I am done goodbye.


#30
Mike the average

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Unity, your kinda throwing stones from glass houses.

 

USA and the west are about to start a slippery slide the hell down, so there isnt much point talking about Russia not having enough valuable resources.  Russia have enough to keep going at the usual crap level they have for the last century, but not any worse.   They will always have enough resources, brains and manpower now and in the future.  UAE and Dubai dont have any brains themselves, most of the brains over there are not from either country, they are all skilled immigrants who get paid many more times over for the same high skilled job a highly skilled local will get paid.  Russia may not have a silicon valley, but they dont depend on a workforce which is 50% asian either.  What happens in the near future when every Asian country will have its own silicon valley.

 

Falling oil prices have helped cut USA gdp in half.  All this time we were led to believe USA was the most powerful innovator in the world, which was propelling them along.  Its true they have been the greatest innovators for the last century, but your economics has been based on oil just the same.  Your media is so bad that, the day it was announced USA GDP was still at 1.2% all they could do was rehash how 'china is the worst investment in the world'.  This cant last for too long.   Your economics are only as good as your economists, politicians and media can fake it.  International investors will begin to move most of their investment to Asia.


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#31
voluntaryist

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The future of US-Russian relations will probably never thaw to the point of outward friendship. The fact is, we USicans have never liked Russia. Look back to the 1800's and early 1900's, and you see that Americans see Russia as being the most backwards of all European autocratic nations. It wasn't exactly false, after all— Russia was still somewhat feudal as late as 1916. It never experienced the Enlightenment, and its elite prided itself upon that fact since they saw the Enlightenment as being a European phenomenon— while they were Russians. Wilson didn't even want to enter World War I precisely because of Russia— he refused to be on the same side as an autocratic nation. And then you got the Red Scares, in the 1920's and the 1950's, which is where Russia was painted as being the Antichrist of Nations. The Left was sorta jivin' with the Russians up until the '70s. It was in the '70s that everyone realized that Sovietism wasn't working, and we also got an upsurge of hard-right conservatism that swept Reagan into office. I'd argue that there was a third Red Scare in the 1980's, and that era was also full of macho excess that prided itself on all-American capitalism. That's when we codified the whole "SU is the anti-US" thing. And Russia then had to fuck everything up by collapsing in 1991, which just granted America bragging rights.

 

So yeah, Russia's been America's enemy for generations. 

 

But fuck all of that for a moment, because our mutual future hinges on someone else. 

 

China.

 

It's long been predicted that the US and Russia were going to be global superpowers. I believe there was even a prediction in the 1800's that said as much as that, claiming that Russia benefited from autocratic rule while America would rise as a business-minded state. 

But they're the new children on the block. The one whose rule is true is actually China; they've been the center of the world for millennia, and it's only in the past 150 years that they've stumbled. Now they're reaffirming their divine right to rule humanity.

China's rise is so great that predictions for the future are constantly being rewritten just to accommodate for them. We've been predicting China's rise as a superpower ever since the end of the Taiping Rebellion, but it's only after they ditched the monarchy and the madmen that they've been able to rise to glory.

 

They've allied with Russia because they oppose US hegemony. However, not a single soul in the world actually believes Russia and China are friends. If anything, there are disturbing parallels between the Germans and Russians in the 1930s that can be seen between the Russians and Chinese today— China doesn't give a damn about Russia; they only care about asserting their own power. They're biding their time before America finally stumbles ourselves, whenever that may be.

 

Russia is no longer a superpower. If anything, they're on the verge of becoming a Chinese puppet state, whereas China is still— during this alleged "economic crisis"— one of the fastest growing nations on Earth. Moscow might be the example China uses to show America what it'll be like when a Chinese flag flies over Washington D.C. 

 

We're approaching a time when Russia might not be able to act without China's approval. China doesn't want the world going up in flames, and if they see that Russia and America are butting heads, they'll step in.

 

Are you excited at the prospect of hegemony from a culture with such an anti-liberty track record?



#32
Yuli Ban

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I don't give a damn about liberty some days. I've said it before that I don't prescribe to egalitarianism, meaning some people are not fit to govern.


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#33
voluntaryist

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I don't give a damn about liberty some days. I've said it before that I don't prescribe to egalitarianism, meaning some people are not fit to govern.

 

Do you believe in self-ownership?



#34
Recyvuym

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Yeah, I'm getting kinda sick of 'liberty' as well.

 

 

Not that I'm enthused about a Chinese global police state or a Russian global mafia state either (sorry Phoenix). I just don't give a fuck anymore.


I loudly predicted the second wave of the Global Financial Crisis would begin by the 31st of March 2017. But I was wrong! Observe my well-deserved public humiliation here, here and here. Let this be a warning to all of you who try to guess the future. Yes, that means you, reading this now! Put that prediction back in your pocket! Do it now, before it's too late! (Also check out my userpage, it's even funnier.)


#35
PhoenixRu

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I  didn't knew where to post this news, so i'll post it here:

 

Another military exercises "Coordination-2016" took place in Pskov and Leningrad region. Nothing worth mentioning if not for their plot. Usually this is just usual vague "our guys against unnamed terrorists", but this time "ours" used the very interesting propaganda appeals to the "enemy". The text was:

 

"The soldiers of NATO, you were deceived! You are not peacekeepers! Lay down your arms! You're fighting on foreign soil. Your treacherous attack disturbed the peace of our country. You brought upon themselves the vengeance and anger of people which has never been defeated on the battlefield. Now drop your weapons, stop being puppets in the hands of your leaders!"

 

So far, this is just to troll the foreign observers. But who knows, what the future will bring to us? Perhaps this is exactly what some of you (or me) will hear for few hours or minutes before your death... no, i don't want it, but who knows...



#36
SpaceGeek

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The relationship between the United States and Russia is going to be inherently hostile. In addition to annexing Crimea, Russia has been engaged in an expansionist policy which is antagonistic towards the West. It's one thing to be authoritarian and absolutist towards one's own people, it's another to be trying to export that to other countries and become a superpower.

 

Russia has been funding far-right Eurosceptic and Nationalist parties throughout Europe. This is a 5th column strategy to weaken your enemy from within (as the West did in Ukraine by funding pro-Europe NGOs). The Trump's campaign ties to Russia and Putin are just one part of this strategy. If successful, this would create a "Euriasian Empire" of Russian influence stretching across Europe.

 

Russia has been building up a "Eurasian Union" to compete with the West which will include Kazakhstan, Belarus, Armenia and Tajikistan. He's also attempting to add other former Soviet states to his empire (Georgia, Azerbaijan, maybe even the Baltic states and Russian-majority Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan etc). 

 

Russia has been sponsoring and establishing mini-states (South Ossetia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Abkhazia, Donetsk and Lugansk people's Republics) often through overt or covert invasion and military intervention (Georgia 2008, Ukraine 2014).

 

Russia has been building up an alliance referred to as the Shia crescent which would initially include Iran, Iraq, Syria. This alliance includes allot of non-state military organizations like Hezbollah (Lebanon & Syria), the Houthis (Yemen). If the Bahraini monarchy were overthrown then Bahrain could also join this alliance.

 

Alexandr Dugin is one of the main ideological advisors to Putin, and he advocates for a military confrontation with the west and the victory of a new kind of far-right nationalism over traditional western liberal democracy.



#37
PhoenixRu

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^ ^ ^

 

I'm not going to argue with this, except one thing:

 

 

Russia has been funding far-right Eurosceptic and Nationalist parties throughout Europe. This is a 5th column strategy to weaken your enemy from within...

 

Yeah, this was Putin who invited these nice guys in EU:

 

CoYYuoKWIAQF8NZ.jpg

 

Firstly you let million(s) of "refugees" to flood your cities and then blame "crafty tyrant Vlad Putin" when something went not as expected... to deal with problem, you have to at least understand its roots. But i highly doubt Europeans can do it. During the last few decades, the European elite shows amazing combination of self-indoctrination and infantilism.



#38
Pisiu369

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Didn't at some point, Russia asked to join NATO?

#39
caltrek

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FBI Probing Possible Russian Hack of US Newsrooms: CNN

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-probing-possible-russian-hack-us-newsrooms-cnn-190104727.html?ref=gs

 

 

 

Washington (AFP) - Hackers with apparent ties to Russia have conducted a series of cyber attacks on US media outlets including the New York Times, CNN reported Tuesday.

The FBI and other US law enforcement agencies are examining the breaches, US officials told CNN, and investigators believe Russian intelligence is likely to be behind the hacks.

The FBI did not immediately respond to a request for comment, and a New York Times spokeswoman did not confirm the investigation to CNN.

 

According to CNN, investigators think the latest hacks are part of a broader of series of attacks that also targeted Democratic Party organizations.

Hillary Clinton's campaign has accused Moscow of hacking into Democratic National Committee emails.

 

CNN said Russian hackers are also believed to be attempting cyber attacks on Washington's many think tanks, which frequently employee former government officials to provide expert analysis on national security issues.

 

Cyber vulnerabilities have become something of a crisis in the US government.

 

The head of the Office of Personnel Management was last year forced to resign after her agency suffered a massive hack -- which many suspect originated in China -- that affected a staggering 21.5 million people.

 

Even America's top cyber snooping organization, the National Security Agency, is in the midst of a hacking scandal in which it appears some of its top secret code was leaked or stolen.

 
 

Part-GTY-544024026-1-1-0.jpg

 

The New York Times in New York City (AFP Photo/Mike Coppola)


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#40
caltrek

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Harry Reid Cites Evidence of Russian Tampering in U.S. Vote, and Seeks F.B.I. Inquiry

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ss&emc=rss&_r=0

 

 

 

The Senate minority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, asked the F.B.I. on Monday to investigate evidence suggesting that Russia may try to manipulate voting results in November.

In a letter to the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey Jr., Mr. Reid wrote that the threat of Russian interference “is more extensive than is widely known and may include the intent to falsify official election results.” Recent classified briefings from senior intelligence officials, Mr. Reid said in an interview, have left him fearful that President Vladimir V. Putin’s “goal is tampering with this election.”

 

News reports on Monday said the F.B.I. warned state election officials several weeks ago that foreign hackers had exported voter registration data from computer systems in at least one state, and had pierced the systems of a second one.

 

The bureau did not name the states, but Yahoo News, which first reported the confidential F.B.I. warning, said they were Arizona and Illinois. Matt Roberts, a spokesman for Arizona’s secretary of state, said the F.B.I. had told state officials that Russians were behind the Arizona attack.

 

After the F.B.I. warning, Arizona took its voter registration database offline from June 28 to July 8 to allow for a forensic exam of its systems, Mr. Roberts said.

The F.B.I., in its notice to states, said the voter information had been “exfiltrated,” which means that it was shipped out of the state systems to another computer. But it does not mean that the data itself was tampered with.

 

It is unclear whether the hackers intended to affect the election or pursued the data for other purposes, like gaining personal identifying information about voters. The F.B.I. warning referred to “targeting activity” against state boards of elections, but did not discuss the intent of the hackers.

30cyber-master768.jpg

 

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada campaigning this month with Hillary Clinton in Las Vegas.   CreditRuth Fremson/The New York Times


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls






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