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Personal History Discussion: 2014 Ukrainian Revolution and the War in Donbass

Ukraine Euromaidan Russia Crimea 2014 Viktor Yanukovych Sevastopol Donetsk Donbass War in Donbass

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#1
Yuli Ban

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The 3 year anniversary of the Euromaidan is upon us, and considering that the whole crisis wound up becoming somewhat personal on Walpurgisnacht 2014, I'm naturally interested in this particular story. 

 

So let's talk about five key events— the Euromaidan (which began in December 2013), the Ukrainian Revolution (in January-February 2014), the Annexation of Crimea (in March 2014), the War in Donbass (which is ongoing), and MH-17 (which occurred in July 2014). I'm gonna hafta cut off the "reminiscence" to about February 2015, during the most fierce period of fighting, since this is such a recent moment in history (so recent that it's actually well documented on this very forum). The war's still ongoing, and— as it's been since it began— is at high risk of flaring up into a larger conflict between Russia and Ukraine at any moment.

 

My particular interest is in the War in Donbass. I have a fascination with the concept of a modern European land war, so the fact one is right there for me to study is something like a bittersweet blackwhite godsend. But that's today. At the time, in 2014, I didn't even want to accept that such a war was going on. As I said, that Walpurgisnacht horror played a huge part in it.

 

 

But what about you? What were your reactions to the state of Ukraine? 

Let's not forget that we had two live threads on the crisis:

 

http://www.futuretim...raine-uprising/

http://www.futuretim...conflict-ver-2/

 

I know there's a third one, but like I said, we should keep discussion limited to before spring 2015.


Nobody's gonna take my drone, I'm gonna fly miles far too high!
Nobody gonna beat my drone, it's gonna shoot into the sky!

#2
PhoenixRu

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My opinion didn't much changed during these three years. In some regard these events were predictable (Ukraine was moving to something like this), and in some regard it was an eye-opener... for example, i didn't expect Western leftists and liberals, being forced to choose between Russia and obvious fascists, will side with fascists without a slightest doubt. If there was something really disappointing about this forum, here is it:

 

I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral I am not a Ukrainian. But, the creator of this video is and it should make us all feel like we are. Watch it. Share it. Send it to your representatives. It’s not your problem. True. But all of our collective voices might be part of the solution. http://thoughtcatalo...ds-to-go-viral/



#3
joe00uk

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A common saying among my communist friends goes something like "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" - many a time throughout history have liberals ended up siding with fascists over socialists, communists, or whatever other progressive change was on the horizon. Which does kinda make sense, given that liberalism and fascism are both the servants of capital - in the case of Ukraine from 2013 onwards, well, there wasn't really a "communist threat" (apart from the Donbass resistance) but the US-backed fascists obviously played on the whole "evil Russia" thing they'd been using ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union to blame on the poisons brought about by capitalist 'shock therapy' restoration. And this kind of propaganda sadly found mass appeal amongst many working class "proles" who became confused and disoriented in the quarter-century absence of the USSR and here we are today, Ukraine the first fascist state on the European continent since 1945 (with the help of 'Murica, of course, who wanted a new regime more friendly to their imperialist corporate interests). I am sure many more will follow - although, I don't think all of them will need US intervention.


"The Proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains." - Karl Marx
"A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentleso temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another."  - Mao Zedong


#4
joe00uk

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And also, Yuli, IMHO this wasn't a Ukrainian "revolution" but an illegitimate US-backed coup. 


"The Proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains." - Karl Marx
"A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentleso temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another."  - Mao Zedong


#5
Yuli Ban

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No, it was a revolution. Just a bad one.


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Nobody gonna beat my drone, it's gonna shoot into the sky!

#6
joe00uk

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Ah, yes, I didn't make myself clear - I was speaking more in the Marxist sense of one class overthrowing another, but yeah, in the common definition I guess it was.


"The Proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains." - Karl Marx
"A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentleso temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another."  - Mao Zedong


#7
PhoenixRu

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A common saying among my communist friends goes something like "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds"

 

I can add that both sides have something similar in their mindset: fascists believe in "triumph of the will" and "heroes and strongmen" who should lead the "crowd". Liberals aren't that sincere but, eventually, they aren't much different and believe in "active minority" who should lead the "passive majority". The sculptors and the clay, so to say. "Freedom" of liberals is exactly the freedom for "handshakeable people with good faces". This philosophy is never voiced officially, but becomes clear after the short conversation with average liberal.

 

Compared to this, Marxism at least based on the assumption that ALL people able to form their independent opinions based on their class interests.


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#8
Maximus

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I was convinced we were on the brink of nuclear war.

 

I remember watching Liveleak videos of Ukrainian troops getting shelled, shot, and falling off their tanks. I also remember seeing the Crimean invasion on the news, with heavily equipped Russian "volunteer" soldiers patrolling the streets. Oh yeah, and that time when Ukrainian fascists chased pro-Russian protestors into a building and set them on fire. Then of course came the shooting down of MH-17. That really shocked the outside world. I know death wasn't exactly uncommon in Ukraine at the time, but those people had absolutely nothing to do with either side. They didn't deserve to get slaughtered like that. 

 

Overall, it was a brutal wake up call to the Western world. We thought we had "won". Ukraine proved us so very wrong. It's true, perhaps NATO pushed Russia too far. Perhaps the West should have treated Russia more like a vicious dog backed into a corner, and less like the decaying carcass of a bear. But at the same time, I don't support Russia's revisionist aims for Eastern Europe. Eastern European countries should not be unwillingly subjected to Russian influence again, and the only insurance of that is NATO and on a lesser scale, the EU. That needs to be balanced with some of Russia's core interests though, and Russia clearly won't accept another NATO or EU state on its border. That's pretty much how I've viewed this conflict for the past two years or so. 


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If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done. -Peter Ustinov
 





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Ukraine, Euromaidan, Russia, Crimea, 2014, Viktor Yanukovych, Sevastopol, Donetsk, Donbass, War in Donbass

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