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#41
caltrek

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I have to wonder when all these groups are going to realize that the middle class, upper middle class and poor have more in common with one another than the rich. A wage slave is still a wage slave regardless of comfort level. We're all one class and the Trump election is a perfect example of infighting for the benefit of the rich.

 

 

In a non-Marxian sort of way, this is exactly the theme of my discussions of false consciousness.  It helps explain why a tiny minority can guide the course of entire society, even in an age where information is otherwise widely available to all sectors.


  • Erowind likes this

The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#42
caltrek

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Yes, I know.  The interview below can be seen as Hillary deflecting responsibility for her loss away from her own incompetency.  Still, I am so tired of hearing stories about John Kerry making similar complaints in whispered conversations between he and his personal friends.  Personally, I like that Hillary at least has the guts to tell us in public that our new emperor is not wearing the clothes of a legitimately elected president.  For that reason, she deserves an audience. 

 

It is not a question of whether Hillary was entitled to be president no matter what.  It is more a question of whether voters were entitled to have elected the candidate of their choice.  This is particularly true of her complaints regarding voter suppression. After all, what is fair about agreeing to a system whereby the Democrats must always have at least a five point or more advantage over their opponent before they can be elected into office?  

 

...and if that is allowed to stand, who is to say that in the future that minimum margin will grow to 7, or 10, or 15%?

 

Hillary Clinton on Trump’s Election: “There Are Lots of Questions About Its Legitimacy”

 

http://www.motherjon...its-legitimacy/

 

 

A year after her defeat by Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election, Hillary Clinton says “there are lots of questions about its legitimacy” due to Russian interference and widespread voter suppression efforts.

 

In an interview with Mother Jones in downtown Manhattan, Clinton said Russian meddling in the election “was one of the major contributors to the outcome.” The Russians used “weaponized false information,” she said, in “a very successful disinformation campaign” that “wasn’t just influencing voters, it was determining the outcome.”

 

Republican efforts to make it harder to vote, through measures such as voter ID laws, shortened early voting periods, and new obstacles to registration, likewise “contributed to the outcome,” Clinton said. These moves received far less attention than Russian interference but arguably had a more demonstrable impact on the election result. According to an MIT study, more than 1 million people did not vote in 2016 because they encountered problems registering or at the polls. Clinton lost the election by a total of 78,000 votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

 

“In a couple of places, most notably Wisconsin, I think it had a dramatic impact on the outcome,” Clinton said of voter suppression.

 

Wisconsin’s new voter ID law required a Wisconsin driver’s license or one of several other types of ID to cast a ballot. It blocked or deterred up to 23,000 people from voting in reliably Democratic Milwaukee and Madison, and potentially 45,000 people statewide, according to a University of Wisconsin study. Clinton lost the state by fewer than 23,000 votes. African Americans, who overwhelmingly supported Clinton, were more than three times as likely as whites not to vote because of the law.


  • Unity likes this

The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#43
Unity

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Yeah, I think it was a combination of factors including Russian meddling, but I did not know the impact of voter suppression until now.  It doesn't surprise me though.  The Republicans have the older generation and once they die off there will be a big swing to the left and they're doing everything in their power to defer that as much as possible into the future.  I think you're also seeing people becoming more economically conservative and fearful as America begins its decline.  It's really sad.  Neoliberalism has a chance of working with time if we can get the population down, but it looks like the progress that made the world great over the last 300 years is slowing as we hit limits to growth.  I'm worried that too many poor voters will increasingly become insular in their thoughts and outlook on the world as economic growth slows in the developed countries and a backlash occurs against free trade, etc



#44
caltrek

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and a backlash occurs against free trade

 

Yes, I think this is an issue area that the proponents of "neoliberalism" may need to carefully re-think.  Free trade may be a good way to keep consumer prices down, but it sucks if it means you lose your relatively high paying factory job and are reduced (if lucky) to minimum (or near minimum) wage jobs in the service sector. In such case, it may very well mean a net reduction in purchasing power, not to mention the hurt to one's pride that results from lay offs.

 

Perhaps some level of protectionism is in order?


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#45
caltrek

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This was originally cited in the I'm not Racist thread, but I think it certainly fits well in this thread.

 

White-on-White Voting

 

https://www.nytimes....ite-voting.html

 

Introduction:

 

(New York Times) Dravosburg, Pa., is a small — population 1,746 — working-class suburb that lies along the Monongahela River 10 miles southeast of Pittsburgh. If we want to understand what actually propelled Donald Trump to victory last November, presidential voting patterns there provide a vital clue.

 

In 2012, Dravosburg backed Barack Obama over Mitt Romney 441 to 312, or 53.4 percent to 44.8 percent.

 

Four years later, the men and women of Dravosburg abandoned their Democratic loyalties and backed Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, 56.3 to 41.1.

 

What is so interesting about this working-class community, with its strong ties to organized labor? It is one of thousands of white enclaves across the nation that provided Trump with his margin of victory.

 

The election of Donald Trump revealed that in some of the nation’s whitest municipalities and counties — the communities arguably most insulated from urban crime, immigration and gangs — Trump did far better than Romney had done four years earlier.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 2016, United States, Presidential Election, Blue collar voters, Evangelicals, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Donald Trump, White supremacists

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