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Germany Watch Thread

Germany Angela Merkel European Union Austerity Neo-Nazi Christian Democrat Social Democratic Party

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#41
Pisiu369

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Merkel Re-Elected as Right Wing Enters Parliament

 

http://www.spiegel.d...-a-1169587.html

 

 

Introduction:

 

For the past several months, it was clear that the German election wasn't going to be much of a cliffhanger. And that expectation was met in spades on Sunday as the first projections emerged soon after the polls closed at 6 p.m., with Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives easily outpacing the center-left Social Democrats as the country's strongest party. The result will send Merkel to her fourth term in the Chancellery.

 

Nevertheless, Sunday's vote marks a significant shift in German politics, with initial projections showing the right-wing populist Alternative for Germany (AfD) party winning over 13 percent of the vote, thus becoming the first overtly right-wing party to win seats in the country's federal parliament in over half a century. The result slightly outpaces the most recent public polling data -- and is a far cry from the 7 percent the AfD had been polling at as recently as mid-summer -- and it means the party will send close to 90 deputies to the Bundestag, Germany's parliament.

 

Those deputies are almost certain to change the debate culture of the Bundestag. Lawmakers like Alexander Gauland, who has repeatedly made headlines for his racist comments targeting blacks and Turks, and Jens Maier, an extreme right-wing historical revisionist, will almost certainly ratchet up the rhetoric in what has long been a relatively staid if stodgy plenary. One of the key things to watch as the next parliament begins its work will be how the other parties choose to react.

 

An Historical Loss

 

The Social Democrats (SPD), meanwhile, appear to have fallen to their worst result since World War II, with initial projections indicating that under 21 percent of voters have cast ballots for the party. The result is particularly disappointing due to the party having been led in the campaign by Martin Schulz, the former president of European Parliament who is well-liked in the country, if not widely seen as inspiring. When Schulz initially announced his candidacy in January, the SPD immediately shot up in the polls, pulling almost even with Merkel's conservatives. But Sunday's result, if it holds, is even lower than the 23 percent the party won in 2009.

 

After polls closed on Sunday, Schulz ruled out a continuation of the grand coalition and said it was a "bitter day" for Social Democrats in Germany. He also said that he would like to continue on as head of the party and lead the SPD into opposition in the Bundestag. Regarding the AfD's result, he said: "It is a turning point and no democrat can simply ignore it."

 

 

The biggest problem emerging for Merkel here is the indication by the Social Democrats that they no longer want to be a part of the coalition governing the country.  I wonder if this will force Merkel to give them more of a role in her cabinet to entice them to change their mind?

 

Alternatively, as is pointed out in the linked article, she could make a coalition with the FDP and Green parties.  She would need both to clear the 50% threshold.  She has ruled out a coalition with the AfD party. 

I saw the massive gains by the AFD party, 93 seats in one election, I've never seen anything like that before.



#42
PhoenixRu

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I saw the massive gains by the AFD party, 93 seats in one election, I've never seen anything like that before.

 

Yes, they're the true winners, not Merkel. They got 13% of votes and since now no one will dare to call them or their ideas "marginal". And soon we'll see the speeches like this in bundestag:

 


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#43
Sciencerocks

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Neo-nazis are the real winners sadly.

 

Why?? Because they hate people based on the color of their skin and anyone that wishes to live outside of goddamn religous trash.


To follow my work on tropical cyclones


#44
Pisiu369

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I saw the massive gains by the AFD party, 93 seats in one election, I've never seen anything like that before.

 

Yes, they're the true winners, not Merkel. They got 13% of votes and since now no one will dare to call them or their ideas "marginal". And soon we'll see the speeches like this in bundestag:

 

 

 

I was amazed by the massive jump, however I am still awaiting who will be chosen as Chancellor.



#45
PhoenixRu

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Why??

 

Simple: the common people's reaction to hypertrophied poltcorrectness already becoming the threat to the very existence of German nation.

 

I am still awaiting who will be chosen as Chancellor.

 

Merkel again, no doubt.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#46
caltrek

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Simple: the common people's reaction to hypertrophied poltcorrectness already becoming the threat to the very existence of German nation.

 

That is so far over the top that I am not sure how to respond.  Sure, the ultra-conservatives who voted AfD may feel this way. But feeling something to be true and being true are two different things.  One can feel that global climate change has no anthropogenic causes.  That doesn't make it so.

 

"Hypertrophied poltcorrectness"?

 

Oh please.  That is like saying "too accurate."  

 

Being politically correct is just that.  To make an assessment of a situation that is both accurate and just.  One cannot have "too much justice."  One can have a backlash against the introduction of justice.

 

Am I too understand that you agree with the AfD?

 

I thought your argument against the Ukrainian government was that it had elements of fascism within its ranks.  Now you support a political party that has elements of fascism within its ranks?  

 

...and in Germany no less?


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#47
caltrek

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The return of the far right in Germany: What does the rise of the AfD party mean?

 

http://www.latimes.c...0926-story.html

 

Introduction:

 

For all its orderly, prosperous modernity, Germany remains shadowed by memories of World War II and the horrors of Nazism. Now, for the first time in the country’s postwar history, a far-right party — with a roster that includes some candidates who embraced anti-Semitism and espoused neo-Nazi views — will enter the lower house of Parliament, or Bundestag.

 

Alternative for Germany, known by its initials AfD, won 12.6% of the vote in Sunday’s election, coming in third place after the conservative Christian Democrats and the center-left Social Democrats.

 

As AfD backers celebrated the party’s performance at the polls, where it garnered nearly 6 million votes, protesters gathered outside its Berlin headquarters and chanted anti-Nazi slogans.

 

Here are some facts about the party and what its crossing of the parliamentary threshold means for Germany and the rest of Europe.

What are the Alternative for Germany party’s beliefs?

 

Some of the party’s nationalist-populist campaign tenets might sound familiar to American voters. AfD’s message is staunchly anti-immigration, fueled by periodic eruptions of anti-Muslim sentiment. It opposes closer ties to the European Union, disdains globalism and rails against Germany’s political establishment. It is a self-described champion of law and order, particularly in the context of terrorism and security. It despises foreign bailouts and preaches the message that Germany is being taken advantage of economically by its neighbors. It scorns the customary language of social inclusiveness and revels in rhetoric that could be politely described as politically incorrect.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#48
PhoenixRu

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Am I too understand that you agree with the AfD?

 

Do you mean their opinion about preserving German culture and national identity, dangers of mass Muslim immigration, and their ironic "respect" to all the 60+ human genders?.. then yes, i'm agree with AfD.

 

Now you support a political party that has elements of fascism within its ranks?

 

I see nothing "fascist" or "neo-nazi" in AfD program, just the common sense. This is very sad and depressing that ideas of "national identity" or "family values" are already considered "extremist" in western society while this:

 

Spoiler

 

...is already mainstream. What can i say? Good luck on this road...

 

 

"Hypertrophied poltcorrectness"?

 

Oh please.  That is like saying "too accurate."  

 

Here i don't even know what to say. But if you're still don't understand why people are angry, then i can not explain too... just one of many examples, German authorities ordered to cover the statue to not insult the feelings of their new citizens. This have added another few votes for AfD, i suspect:

 

DIY0kt6WsAAQ_I3.jpg


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#49
Yuli Ban

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I see nothing "fascist" or "neo-nazi" in AfD program

 

There's nothing "fascist" in my National Technist thesis, but you can be assured that if I ever came to power and had a reign as long as Merkel's...

Spoiler

...would have happened years ago.


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#50
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Meet the Lesbian Goldman Sachs Economist Who Just Led Germany’s Far Right to Victory

Xenophobic populism has returned to German national politics with a bang, this time in the guise of a 38-year-old lesbian investment-banking economist. Alice Weidel is the unusual figure who has come to symbolize the far-right Alternative for Germany’s (AfD) goal-line run into the Bundestag. The AfD’s astounding 13.4 percent finish makes it the first openly chauvinistic, illiberal party to capture seats in Germany’s foremost democratic institution since the early postwar years. Should the Social Democrats (SPD) enter another “grand coalition” with Merkel’s Christian Democrats (CDU), the AfD, as the largest opposition force in the Bundestag with over 60 seats, would become Oppositionsführer, the de facto leader of the opposition.
Until now, Germany had been one of the very few countries in all of Europe that didn’t harbor such a sample in its national legislature. Though their fine print varies, the far-right Europe-wide, like the AfD, flaunts pedigrees that are anti-immigration (and anti-immigrant), eurosceptic, authoritarian, and volkish, blood-and-soil nationalist – and together, in ever greater numbers, pose a very real threat to Europe’s postwar consensus. More immediately, they now pose a threat to the parliamentary order of Germany’s Bundestag. For the size of their triumph, Merkel herself must bear much of the blame as by refusing to address immigration in the campaign, she left the field wide open for the AfD.
In part, the AfD owes its promotion into prime-time German politics to Weidel, its unlikely public face. A complete unknown in Germany until she, in tandem with Alexander Gauland, was tapped to lead the party’s national campaign. Gauland more or less fits the stereotype of the Willie Stark-style populist rabble-rouser, but its Weidel — a self-confident, dressed-for-success expatriate financial consultant who on the surface seems to be the sort of “globalist” that nationalist populists typically claim to despise — who has earned the higher public profile. It’s no accident, however, that she has remained in her party’s good graces.


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#51
caltrek

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I see nothing "fascist" or "neo-nazi" in AfD program, just the common sense

 

 

From the article I cited:

 

 

 

For decades, formalized atonement for Nazi atrocities has been a cornerstone of German public policy, a tenet challenged by some in the ranks of the AfD. That was symbolized on election night, when jubilant supporters of the party sang the national anthem, whose use is frowned upon in any sort of triumphalist political setting. Before the vote, Gauland shattered a taboo when he said Germany should be proud of its military’s “achievements” in World War II. And an AfD leader in Thuringia state, Bjoern Hoecke, has urged a “U-turn” in how Germany’s Nazi past is remembered.

 

 

Honestly, at this point I don't think you have seen anything wrong with the Hitler-Stalin pact - until Hitler turned on Stalin.  Some people never learn.

 

"Military 'achievements' in World War II."  That means slaughtering hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of "your" people.  

 

But hey, Vladimir says it is all cool, so why trust some anarchist from California?


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#52
PhoenixRu

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Honestly, at this point I don't think you have seen anything wrong with the Hitler-Stalin pact - until Hitler turned on Stalin.  Some people never learn.

 

What's so unique and ominous in Hitler-Stalin pact? Everyone in Europe - from Britian to Poland - signed similar treaties with Hitler. And yes, there is nothing wrong in peace treaty until other side violated it.

 

"Military 'achievements' in World War II."  That means slaughtering hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of "your" people.  

 

Well, this is irritating, but understandable. If i was German, i'd too preferred for my children to learn about "military achievements" than some "art of namaz" or "culture of coprophagy". Even if i wasn't German... btw, do you know AfD gained much more than average 13% among the local Russlanddeutsche (noticeable minority in Germany). They're just more resistant to brainwashing than average Germans.

 

But hey, Vladimir says it is all cool, so why trust some anarchist from California?

 

Believe it or not, but I have my own views. I just try to follow them, no matter what others - nazis or communists or Californian anarchists or even Vladimir himself - thinks about this. No offence, nothing personal.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#53
Pisiu369

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I'm laughing. First Trump is a Fascist, and apparently a Republican controlled American is an evil Nazi Fascist Ultra-Religious Extremist Radical hellhole. Then you go about saying any parties who are "Far Right" and want to preserve their respectives nations culture and evil and fascist.

 

Evil does not equal Fascist.



#54
Pisiu369

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I'd like to see, if anyone could actually good give arguments about why Donald Trump is a Fascist or a Proto-Fascist and why cultural preservation and the denial of immigrants is consider Fascist?



#55
PhoenixRu

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There's nothing "fascist" in my National Technist thesis, but you can be assured that if I ever came to power and had a reign as long as Merkel's...

 

Well, if i was the Putin's successor, i'd quickly make all the enemies feel warm nostalgia for Putin's kindness and patience. My program would be not even "Russia first!" but "Russia only!" No any discussion with those who hate us, they must (and will) scream in terror and agony under the tracks of our numberless Armatas.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#56
Maximus

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There's nothing "fascist" in my National Technist thesis, but you can be assured that if I ever came to power and had a reign as long as Merkel's...

 

Well, if i was the Putin's successor, i'd quickly make all the enemies feel warm nostalgia for Putin's kindness and patience. My program would be not even "Russia first!" but "Russia only!" No any discussion with those who hate us, they must (and will) scream in terror and agony under the tracks of our numberless Armatas.

 

 

That's nice and all, but you would be faced with your homeland becoming a radioactive crater... for humanity's sake let's just hope the next generation of Russian leaders don't share this suicidal-fascist attitude.

 

As for the German election, AfD does have some fascist views (as in anti-semitism, Holocaust denial) and they're definitely anti-EU. That makes them a big no-no in my books, but neither can I deny that a lot of the success they've enjoyed has been a direct result of Merkel's policies regarding the Migrant Crisis last year. Germany will have to change; either the center shifts a bit right, and starts using some common sense, or the far-right steadily gains power. I predict Merkel will turn her back on things like the "Open Door Policy", will begin to address issues of 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims not integrating into European society, and will step up efforts to prevent terrorist attacks by returning European jihadis from Syria.


If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done. -Peter Ustinov
 

#57
PhoenixRu

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That's nice and all, but you would be faced with your homeland becoming a radioactive crater... for humanity's sake let's just hope the next generation of Russian leaders don't share this suicidal-fascist attitude.

 

I still hope i'll manage to avoid this (radioactive craters in Russia, i mean). And no, i'm not going to become suicidal, i'll be very careful and pragmatic when necessary, but cruel and vindictive towards obvious enemies when possible. Anyway this is offtopic in German thread.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#58
Yuli Ban

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That said, I do believe that Europe is deluded out the wazoo over this whole Islamic refugee/immigration deal. True, I know that most of these people will return to their homelands once the chaos has died down and some will remain, but there's no doubt that taking in millions of people from a very-much foreign region of the planet that is not exactly "compatible" with your own social values and expecting everyone to be all hunky-dory is some impressive level of self-aggrandizing delusion. Which is why it has to be obvious this is done to subvert the European proletariat and why trusting the far-right (historically opposed to the proletariat in any form) to save things is going to lead to some really bad times. 

 

You don't need "social nationalism" with a red-white-black flag; you just need to limit immigration. Do some vetting. And perhaps most importantly, stop bombing their countries

There'd be no refugee crisis if Euromerica didn't spend a decade destabilizing and bombing the fuck out of Arabian and North African nations. So part of this is really our own fault and we're dealing with the obvious consequences— surely we can't be so drunk on childlike fantasies that we seriously believe that the story ends after we overthrow the evil dictator and democracy spreads throughout the land. 

 

Already, this comment reads like a schizophrenic wrote it (believe it or not, that was a false positive diagnosis several years ago). That's just a testament to how screwed up everything's become and how complex the issue is. 

 

 

So I mean, sure. Create ultranationalist governments that, you know, have never attempted to go to war with one another. See if there's not a massive refugee crisis of white people in the coming years. Flip that coin.


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#59
bgates276

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That said, I do believe that Europe is deluded out the wazoo over this whole Islamic refugee/immigration deal. True, I know that most of these people will return to their homelands once the chaos has died down and some will remain, but there's no doubt that taking in millions of people from a very-much foreign region of the planet that is not exactly "compatible" with your own social values and expecting everyone to be all hunky-dory is some impressive level of self-aggrandizing delusion. Which is why it has to be obvious this is done to subvert the European proletariat and why trusting the far-right (historically opposed to the proletariat in any form) to save things is going to lead to some really bad times. 

 

You don't need "social nationalism" with a red-white-black flag; you just need to limit immigration. Do some vetting. And perhaps most importantly, stop bombing their countries

There'd be no refugee crisis if Euromerica didn't spend a decade destabilizing and bombing the fuck out of Arabian and North African nations. So part of this is really our own fault and we're dealing with the obvious consequences— surely we can't be so drunk on childlike fantasies that we seriously believe that the story ends after we overthrow the evil dictator and democracy spreads throughout the land. 

 

Already, this comment reads like a schizophrenic wrote it (believe it or not, that was a false positive diagnosis several years ago). That's just a testament to how screwed up everything's become and how complex the issue is. 

 

 

So I mean, sure. Create ultranationalist governments that, you know, have never attempted to go to war with one another. See if there's not a massive refugee crisis of white people in the coming years. Flip that coin.

 

Did Europeans flee to Africa and the Middle East after WW1 or WW2? No. But anyways, the problem is that Merkel and the rest of the politicians in the west are just puppets of the globalists. I mean, do you think Merkel, who has a Phd in chemistry, could be so stupid as to let this happen by accident? Western nations bombing these countries and then invite them in with our welfare programs? That is the definition of insanity. Either that or just evil and corrupt. These politicians must have secretly been offered a really sweet deal by the people who are really running things behind the scenes. 



#60
caltrek

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Then you go about saying any parties who are "Far Right" and want to preserve their respectives nations culture and evil and fascist.

 

 

I am not sure who you are addressing here as nobody has said that any party wanting to preserve their culture is evil and fascist.  Conclusions about fascist element in the  AfD were based in part on statements about pride in its military achievements of World War II and urging a  “'U-turn' in how Germany’s Nazi past is remembered."  "U-turn" sounds like a 180 degree change from condemnation to embrace to me.

 

 

I'd like to see, if anyone could actually good give arguments about why Donald Trump is a Fascist or a Proto-Fascist 

 

That discussion has been held in the President Trump News and Discussion thread. I don't see the need to reconstruct that argument in this thread. I would suggest you make your comments in that thread where they can be placed in a proper context.   

 

 

and why cultural preservation and the denial of immigrants is consider Fascist?

 

 

 

Again, nobody that I have read has made that argument.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls






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