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The Collapse of the United States

United States America Future of United States China Russia Cold War 1970s 9/11 Superpower Pearl Harbor

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49 replies to this topic

#41
Yuli Ban

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The problem we have with identifying the potential fall of America by using historical examples is that we are currently living in an era unlike any other. This era began in earnest around the same time that the US became a superpower— the era of instant mass media.

 

I can even show you what I mean: what would you call today's civilization epoch? When we talk about civilization collapse, we tend to refer to a specific dominant empire. Civilization collapsed with the Romans, did it not? And we know of the Bronze-Era Collapse. But if America collapses in the next 10 years while, say, China and India keep their heads above water, would you say that civilization has collapsed? Of course not! Civilization today is too global, too planetary. 

 

This is unprecedented throughout history, and it's why even the inevitable fall of America may not be exactly like what we saw with the Romans. There is genuine interest in making sure certain regions of Earth are highly developed. America is one of those regions; there remains tens of trillions, possibly even hundreds of trillions of dollars of materials on the continent. If and when America falls, it's probable that this will give Chinese venture capitalists/communists opportunity to move in and redevelop the nation, but under a red flag instead.


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#42
bgates276

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The problem we have with identifying the potential fall of America by using historical examples is that we are currently living in an era unlike any other. This era began in earnest around the same time that the US became a superpower— the era of instant mass media.

 

I can even show you what I mean: what would you call today's civilization epoch? When we talk about civilization collapse, we tend to refer to a specific dominant empire. Civilization collapsed with the Romans, did it not? And we know of the Bronze-Era Collapse. But if America collapses in the next 10 years while, say, China and India keep their heads above water, would you say that civilization has collapsed? Of course not! Civilization today is too global, too planetary. 

 

This is unprecedented throughout history, and it's why even the inevitable fall of America may not be exactly like what we saw with the Romans. There is genuine interest in making sure certain regions of Earth are highly developed. America is one of those regions; there remains tens of trillions, possibly even hundreds of trillions of dollars of materials on the continent. If and when America falls, it's probable that this will give Chinese venture capitalists/communists opportunity to move in and redevelop the nation, but under a red flag instead.

 

 

I'm not sure the question was ever 'will civilization collapse?', but more specifically 'will western civilization collapse?'. Yes, some, such as the white nationalists, believe that with the demise of their race, no one else will be around to create or even maintain civilization, and the entire world will fall into a dark age. However, in my mind, it will either be replaced by the people who are trying to destroy it (in a new world order), or for the time being, eclipsed by Eastern civilizations, such as China. I'm a bit skeptical to think India would become the new center for cultural, intellectual,and financial affairs. Unlike the Chinese or Japanese, I don't believe they have nearly the brain power.   



#43
Alislaws

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Yes, some, such as the white nationalists, believe that with the demise of their race, no one else will be around to create or even maintain civilization, and the entire world will fall into a dark age. However, in my mind, it will either be replaced by the people who are trying to destroy it (in a new world order), or for the time being, eclipsed by Eastern civilizations, such as China. I'm a bit skeptical to think India would become the new center for cultural, intellectual,and financial affairs. Unlike the Chinese or Japanese, I don't believe they have nearly the brain power.   

 

I'm assuming that's not some sort of eugenics thing,but a comment on the scientific establishment, and education levels in India. 

 

I think India are behind china at the moment in terms of their average development level. 

 

That said their government seems to be making some big changes, investigating UBI, trying to transition towards cashless society, that kind of thing.

 

Some of these things have been mishandled, but at least some of the opposition seems to be from people who enjoyed not having to pay taxes on anything.

 

I think if the USA collapsed next year, china would definitely be the one to step in. India could be a factor if things happen later. 

 

Japan is not going to achieve much. They don't have the scientists to take over from the USA now, and their population is still declining, coupled with their xenophobia means they're not going to be a big option for immigrants. This compared to the USA which is currently drawing in the best and brightest from all over the world (including India) to maintain it's leadership position.



#44
LWFlouisa

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My comment about primarily the Asian world surviving has virtually nothing to do with white nationality, and if you knew me personally you would know this. Just because someone has a view you disagree with doesn't make them a white nationalist.:/

 

My point had always been I don't believe in the end of civilization. Only Western civilization or the Asian world individually would collapse, but remnants of civilization would remain behind that remind New world nomads of an earlier age.


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#45
bgates276

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My comment about primarily the Asian world surviving has virtually nothing to do with white nationality, and if you knew me personally you would know this. Just because someone has a view you disagree with doesn't make them a white nationalist.:/

 

My point had always been I don't believe in the end of civilization. Only Western civilization or the Asian world individually would collapse, but remnants of civilization would remain behind that remind New world nomads of an earlier age.

 

Are you replying to me? You'd be right, I don't know you. In fact, I must confess that I havn't even read your comments in this thread, so if you thought I was referring to you, you would be perhaps a bit egocentric, but ultimately misguided.



#46
nomad

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I don't know about "collapse."

Hard times are coming as automation advances. We'll likely see the military become 50% drones with semi-autonomous systems developed but not implemented. Unemployment will rise and 50% unemployment by 2035 is not out of the question. The government and private responses to the poverty caused by automation will likely be lagging sorely behind. The solutions implemented are unlikely to be of the "thoughtfully considered" variety and more of the "dear god people are mass rioting and we stand on the verge of revolution and need to placate them" variety. Such solutions, like UBI, may not be sustainable. There is a chance that a government capable of biological warfare will decide to remove people whose labor no longer has significant value from the equation using biological weapon(s). Order could be restored in fairly short order using drone systems. With the looming specter of anti-biotic resistent pathogens it could even be made to look like a naturally occurring event.

 

Maybe I just have too little faith in humanity.


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#47
LWFlouisa

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My comment about primarily the Asian world surviving has virtually nothing to do with white nationality, and if you knew me personally you would know this. Just because someone has a view you disagree with doesn't make them a white nationalist.:/

 

My point had always been I don't believe in the end of civilization. Only Western civilization or the Asian world individually would collapse, but remnants of civilization would remain behind that remind New world nomads of an earlier age.

 

Are you replying to me? You'd be right, I don't know you. In fact, I must confess that I havn't even read your comments in this thread, so if you thought I was referring to you, you would be perhaps a bit egocentric, but ultimately misguided.

 

 

Vague blogging is also a thing, now who has the ego?

 

Now can you actually address the below comment, or is personal attacks your thing?


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#48
Alislaws

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My comment about primarily the Asian world surviving has virtually nothing to do with white nationality, and if you knew me personally you would know this. Just because someone has a view you disagree with doesn't make them a white nationalist.:/

 

My point had always been I don't believe in the end of civilization. Only Western civilization or the Asian world individually would collapse, but remnants of civilization would remain behind that remind New world nomads of an earlier age.

 

Are you replying to me? You'd be right, I don't know you. In fact, I must confess that I havn't even read your comments in this thread, so if you thought I was referring to you, you would be perhaps a bit egocentric, but ultimately misguided.

 

 

Vague blogging is also a thing, now who has the ego?

 

Now can you actually address the below comment, or is personal attacks your thing?

 

so bgates276 said: 

 

"Some, such as the white nationalists, believe that with the demise of their race, no one else will be around to create or even maintain civilization, and the entire world will fall into a dark age"

 

then LWFlouisa said: 

 

"My comment about primarily the Asian world surviving has virtually nothing to do with white nationality, and if you knew me personally you would know this. Just because someone has a view you disagree with doesn't make them a white nationalist.:/"

 

I don't think I've seen anyone else talking about white nationalism so it doesn't seem arrogant for bgates276 to assume LWFlouisa was responding to him.

 

Also he was clearly implying that people who believe that without the USA all civilization would collapse are probably white nationalists, and since LWFlouisa wasn't actually saying anything of the sort it seems weird to consider it a personal attack?

 

Then this: 

 

Now can you actually address the below comment, or is personal attacks your thing?

 

My point had always been I don't believe in the end of civilization. Only Western civilization or the Asian world individually would collapse, but remnants of civilization would remain behind that remind New world nomads of an earlier age.

 

So whats being said is basically "the collapse of western civilization, is not the same thing as the collapse of civilization", which is the same point bgates276 was making in his post? SO you seem to both agree with eachother?



#49
BarkEater93

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The current political structure of the U.S. was made when the country was a marginal power in the shadow of the European empires. 

 

The American empire is still very young, it's only been 26 years since it has been the global superpower (after collapse of the USSR), and only 72 years since it has no longer been a marginal power alongside the Europeans.

 

And it behaves like a young empire: Collectively as a people of the nation-state it has intense mood-swings (the euphoria of the 90's followed by the dread of the 2000's), irrational fears (Islamic terrorism), it has a hard time dealing with its emotions (like the response to 9/11), it struggles it find its identity (like the clash between Republican and Democratic values), it feels intimidated by other powers, it has has a wild, child-like foreign strategy and intrudes on other nations without thinking much about the consequences, and then takes the hatred from other nations that have to deal with its mess to heart.

 

These are attributes of the adolescent mind. The U.S. behaves like an adolescent that is trying to find its place in the world, its place in its new position as a global empire. It's learning to manage its new empire, and as the elephant in the room its inevitability stepping on others toes. It has to learn to be more careful in its actions. 


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#50
LWFlouisa

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Something feels very different about the US strikes back (mean US empire) than say The French Empire, whose only fault was keeping The Guillotine until about more than half way through the 20th century, while the rest of Europe was using more common sense.

 

But France almost looks anti-heroic in comparison to the sheer villainy that's the US at the moment.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: United States, America, Future of United States, China, Russia, Cold War, 1970s, 9/11, Superpower, Pearl Harbor

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