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Explosions Reported At Manchester Arena

UK terrorism

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18 replies to this topic

#1
Yuli Ban

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Manchester Arena 'explosions': Two loud bangs heard at MEN Arena

Police are treating a horror blast at Manchester Arena - which has claimed "a number of" lives - as a possible terror attack.
Scores of people fled the arena screaming and covered in blood after hearing 'loud bangs' at the end of an Ariana Grande concert, where hundreds of children of primary age were in attendance.
Armed police and helicopters rushed to the scene, where one witness reported being blown off his feet just after the lights came up at around 10.40pm.

There are confirmed fatalities.

Redditor nxwxrries put together an amazing round up of all information known at the moment.


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#2
Maximus

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Absolutely appalling, thoughts to the victims and their families. Glad to see police aren't beating around the bush.


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If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done. -Peter Ustinov
 

#3
MarcZ

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Differing accounts as to whether this was a nail bomb or a suicide bomb... 



#4
superexistence

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I drove by it an hour before it happened, freaked me out.



#5
wjfox

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Steve, a homeless man who was sleeping near Manchester Arena, rushed to help young victims

 

https://streamable.com/pzqnm


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#6
MarcZ

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BREAKING: UK TERROR LEVEL RAISED TO CRITICAL

 

The UK terror level has been raised to critical for the 3rd time in its history. The last 2 were in 2006 and 2007 around the time of the transatlantic airplane bomb plot and the car bombs discovered outside of the nightclubs. The UK has deployed soldiers on the streets and there is some indication this attack may be linked to something larger and another attack could be imminent. 

 

http://www.telegraph...cal-manchester/

 

I'm deeply concerned about this bomb. It seems to be awfully well developed. Wondering where they got the resources and who made it...



#7
wjfox

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Olivia Campbell, who went missing after the attack, prompting a widespread search in hospitals and elsewhere, has now been confirmed dead.

She was 15.

This girl was described as "a talented singer" and had twice performed on Britain’s Got Talent.

But hey, gotta please Allah, right? I'm sure he's so grateful that her life has been snuffed out at 15.

Fifteen, FFS.

 

http://www.standard....n-a3546811.html


MqWOyx0.jpg


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#8
PhoenixRu

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She was 15.

This girl was described as "a talented singer" and had twice performed on Britain’s Got Talent.

But hey, gotta please Allah, right? I'm sure he's so grateful that her life has been snuffed out at 15.

 

Let's return from gods and heavens back to Earth. Since terrorist was of Libyan origin, I think these wise and enthusiastic (just look at their faces) politicians are also responsible, if even they're unable to accept this or at least grasp the cause-effect relationships:

 

stream_img.jpg

 

PS if there is something truly infernal in this world, this is the modern West European elite: the horrible example of ideological fanaticism, arrogance, total incompetence, and inability to learn something from their own previous mistakes.


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"And the Russian land, let God keep it! Under heavens, there is no other land like this. And although Russian nobles are not righteous neither kind, let God arrange the Russian land and give us enough justice" - Afanasy Nikitin, medieval traveler of XV century.


#9
wjfox

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Latest from the BBC:

"A Muslim community worker has told BBC News that members of the public called the police anti-terrorism hotline warning about the Manchester suicide bomber’s extreme and violent views several years ago.

The BBC also understands that Abedi was in Manchester earlier this year when he told people of the value of dying for a cause and made hardline statements about suicide operations and the conflict in Libya."

#10
Maximus

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Latest from the BBC:

"A Muslim community worker has told BBC News that members of the public called the police anti-terrorism hotline warning about the Manchester suicide bomber’s extreme and violent views several years ago.

The BBC also understands that Abedi was in Manchester earlier this year when he told people of the value of dying for a cause and made hardline statements about suicide operations and the conflict in Libya."

 

Why are people like this allowed to walk free? Christ, how incompetent are our security services and justice systems.


If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done. -Peter Ustinov
 

#11
Alislaws

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Latest from the BBC:

"A Muslim community worker has told BBC News that members of the public called the police anti-terrorism hotline warning about the Manchester suicide bomber’s extreme and violent views several years ago.

The BBC also understands that Abedi was in Manchester earlier this year when he told people of the value of dying for a cause and made hardline statements about suicide operations and the conflict in Libya."

 

Why are people like this allowed to walk free? Christ, how incompetent are our security services and justice systems.

 

 

My guess would be that no one recorded him saying it, and there weren't enough witnesses? 

 

If someone produced a recording of him saying this shit, then yeah someone has really messed up.

 

If it was just people reporting him, then he could probably find people willing to swear that he said no such thing etc. Then the police are looking at a bunch of conflicting testimony, with no hard evidence which makes it hard to build a case for deporting or incarcerating someone. 

 

As long as you're careful you can say a lot of fucked up things without it being a crime, and its difficult to create a law that stops it without resulting in loads of idiot teenagers being rounded up and deported. 



#12
Maximus

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Latest from the BBC:

"A Muslim community worker has told BBC News that members of the public called the police anti-terrorism hotline warning about the Manchester suicide bomber’s extreme and violent views several years ago.

The BBC also understands that Abedi was in Manchester earlier this year when he told people of the value of dying for a cause and made hardline statements about suicide operations and the conflict in Libya."

 

Why are people like this allowed to walk free? Christ, how incompetent are our security services and justice systems.

 

 

My guess would be that no one recorded him saying it, and there weren't enough witnesses? 

 

If someone produced a recording of him saying this shit, then yeah someone has really messed up.

 

If it was just people reporting him, then he could probably find people willing to swear that he said no such thing etc. Then the police are looking at a bunch of conflicting testimony, with no hard evidence which makes it hard to build a case for deporting or incarcerating someone. 

 

As long as you're careful you can say a lot of fucked up things without it being a crime, and its difficult to create a law that stops it without resulting in loads of idiot teenagers being rounded up and deported. 

 

 

Indeed. However, with all these individuals alerting security services, you'd think they would pay closer attention to him. When you have that many red flags being raised, you need to put that guy under heavy surveillance. Texts, messages, phone calls; anything to get clear, undeniable evidence of terrorist intent. 

 

But then again, the sheer amount of people saying this sort of stuff probably prevents intelligence services from properly tracking all individuals of interest. Enter AI, and automated surveillance systems. We will absolutely need these to deal with the number of radical Islamists returning to Europe from Syria, as there is no way in hell our human run services can keep track of them all. Such a system could simultaneously keep tabs on the actions of thousands of individuals of interest, hacking into their phones to monitor conversations, watching them through public cameras, and immediately alerting police if a plot is detected. Of course, this means granting intelligence agencies even greater access to our phones and private lives. It's a shitty trade-off, but this will soon be necessary to deal with the scale of radicalism we will be seeing (so delete those shirtless selfies while you can). 


If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done. -Peter Ustinov
 

#13
Alislaws

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I think you're right, certainly modern technology can allow a much more effective surveillance state than we have at the moment. 

 

I actually have no real problem with a lack of privacy, except that you need to be able to trust the government to only monitor for horrible illegal stuff, and not to use those systems to target political opponents, or homosexuals, or the surveillance officer's wife or whoever.

 

Also we have a govt. at the moment that is busy banning production of specific types of pornography that they don't like and censoring the internet and stuff so they're not as hands off and "live and let live" as i'd like them to be, if they're going to be monitoring every move anyone makes.

 

Most importantly this is also a govt who's understanding of the necessary hashtags is not good. So i'm not sure they'd be able to understand  the concept of implementing an AI monitored surveillance state. 

 

None of the opposition parties seem very tech savvy either, which is a product of all our politicians being super old.

 

If we rationalized our laws to remove all victimless crimes and any sort of moral judgement stuff where something is considered wrong, but no actual harm is being done, then bring on big brother but that's not going to happen any time soon.



#14
Maximus

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I actually have no real problem with a lack of privacy, except that you need to be able to trust the government to only monitor for horrible illegal stuff, and not to use those systems to target political opponents, or homosexuals, or the surveillance officer's wife or whoever.

 

Also we have a govt. at the moment that is busy banning production of specific types of pornography that they don't like and censoring the internet and stuff so they're not as hands off and "live and let live" as i'd like them to be, if they're going to be monitoring every move anyone makes.

 

Yes, those are valid points about the potential of abuse of power in a surveillance state. Perhaps putting the actual data gathering into the hands of AI, removing the human factor, will make this sort of abuse harder. The AI must follow a set of laws mandated by its founding constitution, although these can be updated if necessary to keep up with security threats. This would prevent the targeting of political opponents, homosexuals, etc. 

 

Another obvious problem, as you stated, is how this system will deal with petty crime, or "lukewarm" offenses; things like stealing candy bars, or smoking marijuana (in many places its illegal, but police let you off with small amounts). Today, you could get away with a warning for doing these things, but in the future this will be on your permanent record. Perhaps the AI will have its own "social credit" system, ranking citizens on likelihood to commit certain crimes. This will be based not only on convictions, but on socio-economic background, genetic predispositions, etc. Of course, this information will have to be completely private. If anyone's gonna be handling that sort of information, we should hope it's an AI, and not some human who'll sell your information off.

 

Will we adapt our laws and justice systems to make an AI directed surveillance state as humane as possible? Probably not. As we know, technology progresses far faster than society. With attacks like thisconstantly taking place (and I predict an increase due to returning IS fighters), intelligence services will have no choice but to "shoot and ask questions later", resulting a sort of NSA-on-steroids scenario. 


If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done. -Peter Ustinov
 

#15
Alislaws

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Will we adapt our laws and justice systems to make an AI directed surveillance state as humane as possible? Probably not. As we know, technology progresses far faster than society. With attacks like this constantly taking place (and I predict an increase due to returning IS fighters), intelligence services will have no choice but to "shoot and ask questions later", resulting a sort of NSA-on-steroids scenario.  

 

Yeah, that's my fear, especially with the low level of tech understanding in the Govt. 

 

I think an AI with a carefully structured set of core rules, which requires a court order to get any info from would be ideal, it monitors everything, but you have a set legal methodology to control access. The AI could publish all requests for information publicly after a certain time, maybe a year or maybe 5, but it means that there would be oversight, and any abuses (like a judge writing himself a court order to watch his ex wife or something) would come to light, or it could notify people directly of requests for information on them after say, 6 months or something.

 

Obviously you wouldn't want to jeopardise ongoing investigations so you'd need some delay, and you could maybe get an extension on the reveal if absolutely necessary, but there would need to be limits on it.

 

The difficulty then is figuring out how to make it secure from cyber attacks, and how to make sure the people/government who create it don't leave secret back-doors/overrides etc. assuming its not an AGI. If its an AGI, we need to make sure it won't kill us all due to poor wording in its core objectives.



#16
wjfox

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The Queen meeting a victim of the attack:

 

 

RbYKrMj.jpg


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#17
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#18
Time_Traveller

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Manchester Arena to stay closed until September

14 June 2017

 

Manchester Arena is to stay shut until September following the terror attack that killed 22 people last month.

Concerts by acts including Celine Dion, Radiohead, Bros and Blink-182 have been cancelled or rearranged.

A statement from the arena said it was "always our intention to honour our existing summer events".

But it added: "The damage caused to the main public area outside of the arena has left us with no other option than to remain closed until September."

The venue's operators are "working towards" a re-opening in early September - which will be more than three months after the bombing at the end of an Ariana Grande concert.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...t-arts-40275744


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#19
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DPi_mPnWsAAZZr7.jpg


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