27 replies to this topic

[CyberMisterBeauty]

The top 10 technologies that will profoundly change society in the future:

http://lifeboat.com/ex/transhumanist.technologies

[shane_allen]

Pretty good. Nothing new, but always fun to stoke the fires.

Edited by shane_allen, 02 March 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[SG-1]

I always hear that space colonization will cure over population, but the most populous countries on Earth aren't first world. They are second. We will need to bring them up to first world status and then we will need to remove billions of people off the planet.

Then after that is all done, we will need strict world-wide birth laws. We will say something like, "No more than two free children to a couple on Earth, more costs money or you are shipped off-world." Then to ship people off-world we would need to have a good relationship with the off-planet countries and maybe even a "galactic" government.

It gets so complicated thinking of all the variables.

[shane_allen]

"No more than two free children to a couple on Earth, more costs money or you are shipped off-world."

Wha-ha-ha-ha! What!?

[SG-1]

"No more than two free children to a couple on Earth, more costs money or you are shipped off-world."

Wha-ha-ha-ha! What!?

I love your arrogant attitude. Think about it. We have colonies. We made them so Earth doesn't get over crowded. No one wants a bunch of poor people. China gives benefits for people with one child. It would make sense that governments would want assurance that these extra people on Earth aren't going to be hobos or poor. You can get rid of people but people always have kids.

If we ever get to the point where we have a choice to live on other planets like moving to another city, then why would anyone want to turn the "home planet" into a giant India?

Edited by SG-1, 03 March 2012 - 04:54 PM.

[sirhotalot]

I always hear that space colonization will cure over population, but the most populous countries on Earth aren't first world. They are second. We will need to bring them up to first world status and then we will need to remove billions of people off the planet.

Then after that is all done, we will need strict world-wide birth laws. We will say something like, "No more than two free children to a couple on Earth, more costs money or you are shipped off-world." Then to ship people off-world we would need to have a good relationship with the off-planet countries and maybe even a "galactic" government.

It gets so complicated thinking of all the variables.

Over population isn't a problem like a lot of people seem to think it is. The global population will cap out at 9 billion then drop drastically, then level out around 7 billion. According to a UN study anyways.

[shane_allen]

I love your arrogant attitude.
China gives benefits for people with one child.

Come on, I can laugh at things you say. That's not arrogant. Other things you said that I find funny: "No one wants a bunch of poor people." & "...why would anyone want to turn the "home planet" into a giant India?"

Now, I think we agree in principle on population control, but disagree on method. Don't punish people by exiling them to the moon. Do what you think China does; give positive incentives to have less children. I have no idea what china does for population control, so I say "what you think China does."

Edited by shane_allen, 05 March 2012 - 01:58 PM.

[SG-1]

They give financial benefits to families with one child. They take it away if they have more than one.

[sirhotalot]

They give financial benefits to families with one child. They take it away if they have more than one.

And now they realize they cut off their own feet because there aren't any young people to replace their work force. They're now encouraging people to have more children.

[SG-1]

They give financial benefits to families with one child. They take it away if they have more than one

And now they realize they cut off their own feet because there aren't any young people to replace their work force. They're now encouraging people to have more children.

That wouldn't matter if you had immortal people. plus people could have more then two I think paying for the right to another kid is a really good idea, unless we figure out how to keep a crazy amount of people on earth at once, no one ever has kids or a lot of people continuously leave earth for better places.

It's something we won't have to worry about for a long time

Edited by SG-1, 07 March 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[GNR Rvolution]

They give financial benefits to families with one child. They take it away if they have more than one

And now they realize they cut off their own feet because there aren't any young people to replace their work force. They're now encouraging people to have more children.

That wouldn't matter if you had immortal people. plus people could have more then two I think paying for the right to another kid is a really good idea, unless we figure out how to keep a crazy amount of people on earth at once, no one ever has kids or a lot of people continuously leave earth for better places.

It's something we won't have to worry about for a long time

To be fair, no-one mentioned immortality in relation to population control until now, but it would be very difficult to make everyone on the planet immortal, I suspect many people would not be able to afford the longevity / GE treatment to make them immortal, and so would want lots of children to ensure their own genetic material is passed on. Unfortunately at the end of the day reproduction is an instinct in humans, one that is going to be virtually impossible to overcome, even laws cannot prevent people from having children, only invoke a consequence for doing so. Unless you want to talk about forced visectomies, masectomies or other medical intervention?

[Raklian]

They give financial benefits to families with one child. They take it away if they have more than one

And now they realize they cut off their own feet because there aren't any young people to replace their work force. They're now encouraging people to have more children.

That wouldn't matter if you had immortal people. plus people could have more then two I think paying for the right to another kid is a really good idea, unless we figure out how to keep a crazy amount of people on earth at once, no one ever has kids or a lot of people continuously leave earth for better places.

It's something we won't have to worry about for a long time

To be fair, no-one mentioned immortality in relation to population control until now, but it would be very difficult to make everyone on the planet immortal, I suspect many people would not be able to afford the longevity / GE treatment to make them immortal, and so would want lots of children to ensure their own genetic material is passed on. Unfortunately at the end of the day reproduction is an instinct in humans, one that is going to be virtually impossible to overcome, even laws cannot prevent people from having children, only invoke a consequence for doing so. Unless you want to talk about forced visectomies, masectomies or other medical intervention?

This is exactly what space colonization is for.

[GNR Rvolution]

Here's my take on these:

• Cryonics: Not really sold on the idea that this will be very big. I think maybe for deep space voyages it could be useful, but this stuff has been around since the seventies and there still isn't much take-up for it. And by the time we are ready for long space journeys I'm sure there will be other ways of maintaining a human that are far less cumbersome and dangerous.
  
• Virtual Reality: Personally I believe that virtual and actual reality are going to blend, we are already seeing it with AR, and that the two realities will overlap. This is going to happen soon as well, I give it no more that 20-30 years.
  
• Gene Therapy: This is going to be big, there are no two ways about it. Give it a few years or more and you can forget cryonics, anyone who has a problem should be able to get it sorted with this. Death will no longer be an inevitability, if you can afford it, and all but the most complicated of ailments will be treatable.
  
• Space Colonisation: Unforunately I don't see us making it into space anytime soon. Robots, UAVs, sure, but man is stuck to this rock until Gene Therapy (see above) allows us to modify ourselves to live in otherworldly evironments more easily. On the plus side I can see VR providing the perfect training ground for us when we do want to go.
  
• Cybernetics: In order to survive we will all have to become cyborgs at some point, to greater or lesser degrees. Otherwise we will fall behind in the evolutionary acceleration. I think we will even go one further and become more of a group consciousness. But only a few will get physical enhancements, those in the military, there will be very strict laws controlling this.
  
• Self Replicating Robots: This is more of a branch of robotics, albeit a rather important one, and most important I think to micro- and nano-scale robotics, where you could develop swarms of robots to achieve tasks.
  
• Molecular Manufacturing: I think this is still some way off, but the rewards would be immense.
  
• Mega-scale Engineering: Again this is some way off, but would be greatly helped by molecular manufacturing. Unfortunately I don't see anything of this scale being built this century, maybe a space elevator in the early 22nd century...
  
• Mind Uploading: This is a very debatable one, depends on your definition of mind uploading. Simply storing your brain structure and contents in another medium, sure no problem, that way if you die of massive head trauma you can have a new brain grown. But to exist outside of the brain, to have consciousness, that I'm not convinced about. It think we'll know if it's possible by mid-century, but it may take longer to actually achieve.
  
• Artificial Intelligence: This is the big one for me, it's the realistic evolution of technology to a point where it's better than us in many ways. Already computers do things most of us simply can't achieve, but I think any artificial intelligence will be limited to those things that it is good at for a while to come. Pattern Recognition, creative thought, abstract thought, morality, these are not things suited to an artificial intelligence and may never be, it's simply not their thing. But I don't believe that they will wipe us out, either through accident or by design, I think the future will be a blurred line between man and machine.

Edited by GNR Rvolution, 08 March 2012 - 09:14 AM.

[GNR Rvolution]

This is exactly what space colonization is for.

Unfortunately I don't believe space colonisation is going to happen anytime soon (this century) by which time the population problem will have either led to global catastrophe or we will be through the worst and the population levels will be receding...

[Raklian]

This is exactly what space colonization is for.

Unfortunately I don't believe space colonisation is going to happen anytime soon (this century) by which time the population problem will have either led to global catastrophe or we will be through the worst and the population levels will be receding...

I didn't say we would be successful in colonizing space before we begin to have trouble with population growth. I just merely stated that we need to colonize space to accomodate further population growth. Realistically, we will have problems before this happens, so you're right on that part.

[GNR Rvolution]

I didn't say we would be successful in colonizing space before we begin to have trouble with population growth. I just merely stated that we need to colonize space to accomodate further population growth. Realistically, we will have problems before this happens, so you're right on that part.

Well of course we need to colonise space to grow as a species, but a lot of evidence says that the global population will level out by mid-century and then actually go into decline, particularly as longevity increases and the need to procreate reduces. Already in many developed countries the population is in decline or at least level, it's developing and third world countries where the population is growing so fast.

There will likely be a baby boom if space colonisation actually begins, but by then it's debatable as to whether we would need to use the 'traditional' methods of reproduction. And anyone who wants to live anywhere other than Earth is likely going to require significant genetic modification and augmentation to survive out there, be it on other planets / moons or space habitats.

[CyberMisterBeauty]

They give financial benefits to families with one child. They take it away if they have more than one

And now they realize they cut off their own feet because there aren't any young people to replace their work force. They're now encouraging people to have more children.

That wouldn't matter if you had immortal people. plus people could have more then two I think paying for the right to another kid is a really good idea, unless we figure out how to keep a crazy amount of people on earth at once, no one ever has kids or a lot of people continuously leave earth for better places.

It's something we won't have to worry about for a long time

To be fair, no-one mentioned immortality in relation to population control until now, but it would be very difficult to make everyone on the planet immortal, I suspect many people would not be able to afford the longevity / GE treatment to make them immortal, and so would want lots of children to ensure their own genetic material is passed on. Unfortunately at the end of the day reproduction is an instinct in humans, one that is going to be virtually impossible to overcome, even laws cannot prevent people from having children, only invoke a consequence for doing so. Unless you want to talk about forced visectomies, masectomies or other medical intervention?

1-Everyone in the future will be immortal,reach immortality will be like taking "aspirin",in other words,technology will be so disseminated that no one will scape from it.Even those people who won't choose none of the treatments that GNR said will be immortal through nanomachines and the treatments to reverse aging;

2-Reproduction is a necessity of humans,but not instict,if that were true women would have babies throughout all their lives;

3-If everyone is immortal,doesn't age anymore and the world population is at a great number,none will see and have necessity to have sons;

4-You made me laugh when you said that no law can avoid couples to have children...In China the couples can only have one child and the country is very sucessfull with that.Why the rest of the world could't adopt this law?That would be very good for humanity...

[GNR Rvolution]

1-Everyone in the future will be immortal,reach immortality will be like taking "aspirin",in other words,technology will be so disseminated that no one will scape from it.Even those people who won't choose none of the treatments that GNR said will be immortal through nanomachines and the treatments to reverse aging;

2-Reproduction is a necessity of humans,but not instict,if that were true women would have babies throughout all their lives;

3-If everyone is immortal,doesn't age anymore and the world population is at a great number,none will see and have necessity to have sons;

4-You made me laugh when you said that no law can avoid couples to have children...In China the couples can only have one child and the country is very sucessfull with that.Why the rest of the world could't adopt this law?That would be very good for humanity...

I'm not sure how you gather that everyone will be immortal, is that speculation or are you basing this on something real? I personally see longevity treatments being available to those who can afford them, not everyone will be able to. Unfortunately we live in a capitalist society where everything has a price tag, including life.

Reproduction is an instinct. The reason women don't have children all of their life is because (a) instinct kicks in when they have had enough that they feel that their genetic line is going to be preserved and (b) eventually the menopause kicks in and they are no longer able to have children whether they want it or not. It's not called the biological clock for nothing.

Not sure what your third comment means...

Yes, China's law is working to keep their population under control, but this is only working because it is not a democracy, laws are enforced very strictly, and I'm sure you have heard their human rights record isn't that great. Besides, it's not working as well as you might think, see here:

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/4708432.stm

and

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6694135.stm

That sort of law would never be passed in a democratic nation, and in third world countries would be impossible to enforce.

[Logically Irrational]

The reversible biostasis mentioned on the timeline is what we'll get I think. Not really all that sure about cryonics. All the other stuff is a given, though they'll come about a different time for sure.

[SG-1]

I thought this was a transhumanist thread?
I was making the assumption that in the future at some point transhumanists will be able to make themselves immortal. Who says a transhuman can't have kids? What if they can or whatever. What if you weren't a full robot but just enough that you could cure aging. Sure people will still die, but I believe that if that kind of technology ever came about, that it wouldn't be long (probably in a young person's life time, at that time) that the technology will be available to anyone who wanted it.

Technology always gets cheaper. Life is considered a human right. If people have not committed any horrible crimes, why would we deny people that are going to die the right to live? This is insane. Even if half the population cured aging. They would theoretically be enough people to over-populate the world given they stay on Earth and they stay a long time. Population control will either be necessary, or people will want to move away to another place less crowded, and thus a law like that is redundant