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Artificial wombs and the future of pregnance and gender relationships


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#41
CyberMisterBeauty

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Raklian,don't exist this thing of "little homossexual",or a person is hetero,homosexual or bissexual(the latter you are refering of being little homosexual).

And what do you mean by men having more sexual options?He can be only hetero,homo or bissexual.Or you are talking about those people who feel attracted by animals(bizarre!)?

#42
SG-1

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Hey guys,130 women per 100 men could be an excellent sex ratio,don't you think?

In a 100.000 habitant city,it would be 70.000 women and only 30.000 men!!!!

SG-1,where in the world did I said that the world would be better without men?You understood wrong,I said that I thought the world would be better with more women than men!And with more women in politics,business and government in general!


THANK YOU FOR THAT. YOU SEEM TO HAVE FIGURED OUT THE PERFECT RATIO OF MEN TO WOMEN - SINCE BOTH GENDERS CAN BE PREDICTABLY STEREOTYPED AND 30/100 WOMEN CAN BE SINGLE FOREVER
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Mark your calendars

Never Yield


#43
Zeitgeist123

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You dont seem only ignorant but also show very little intelligence and thats under the eyes of all. Therefore this is my last reply to you as it is a real waiste of time. "


uhm, first of all i didnt say that i seem ignorant. i said that YOU are ignorant. and its great to see you shut your trap (and hopefully, also realize how you ruin what seemed to be a great topic in futuretimeline in favor of your women-hating opinions) because it only make you look like a fool more and more.

Not only you don't know much about Europe and Italy( you never been here if not for a very short period) but you also insult my culture and highly speculate about things you don't know. Furthermore the reason I suggested you to read about European History is because, we were talking of the German holocaust..



Nope, the facts speaks for itself. I gave you sources as to why i said that italian society is a big men's world, not just some highly opinionated assumptions like you do. and sorry if it seemed that i insulted you. but you will definitely feel insulted when your beliefs are opposed with hurtful truths. a spade is a spade is a spade. you're culture is highly mysoginistic relative to other countries in europe. and judgin from your comments, you are a mysoginist.

and I am not a bigot I am acutlly a very open-mind and if we talk about bigotery have a read to your insultin message based on prejudice and things you dont know directly.


yeah? "im not racist, i just think that most blacks live in the ghetto neighborhood". right. classic defense card.

Here I stop for the respect of the other users and for the intellectual content of this forum. In any case just for other pepole info I will give a more precise image of the woman in italy. The data is accurate since it comes from the Italian Minister of Equal Opportuities.

The survery that the previous user posted may be based from the the Global Gender Gap Index and has been criticized because it is designed to detect only the areas in which women are below par. In support of this thesis shows that in the same document is shown that if, in a given field, both detected a difference in favor of women and therefore to the detriment of man's judgment will be given "perfect equality" and therefore will not be detected reverse inequality-woman man. This methodology makes it, for many, this document useful to consider only those countries where gender inequality is very high and present in all areas (thus excluding Italy). Actully I find that rank pathetic and really not accurate. Italy comes after Moldavia after an entire generation of Moldavian women has been devastated the trafficking of women ( prostitution)? or Italy after China that with its single child policy as killed many female infants? and Brunei which is governed by a Sultane with an harem is on top of Brazil which is governed by a young progresisst?? and how can they find such an accurate data in such a large issues, what is the precise methodolgy of how this survay started. For such a vast analysis is hard to find precise information about every specifi country. I am high skeptiacal that a rank could be made.Moreover In a country is not enough to know if there are good laws about women but to see if laws are applied this is another failure of this data.


yes, deal with it. its hard to swallow having italy behind china and brunei in terms in terms of countries where women are living better or worse. however if you wanna argue on this, you can always complain and tell these people that the factors they consider are incorrect and thus have it replaced with your own major factors.

But lets get this straight and see italy with closer lenses.
In Italy, in law, women have equal social dignity and equal rights with respect to the male gender. These three principles are guaranteed by the Constitution.

The female education, especially at the start of this century has reach very high levels.Women also represent 65% of graduates . Currently, women have greater access and facilities in the world of work at the end of the curriculum (degree) In addition, young women who choose to be single reach senior positions at the same percentage of their male counterparts under the same conditions .

From the viewpoint of the university and the labor of the young Italian women are now better educated than men,
The data show that female workers seem to be oriented to the work less strenuous and less dangerous than men. The rate of death at work is about 11 points per million, the male stands about 86 units per million . In addition, employed women who work at night are 16% against 25% of their male colleagues. The women who work the night they occupy only 7% versus 14% of their male colleagues.

However, italian women seems to have less free time compared to some other members of the EU and work wages are slightly lowers than men in some public sectors and only reforms are needed for the issue of maternity.

This is some important data of the women conditions in Italy. Many have just prejudices about italy and being a parthriarcal culture that steams from movies, ingornace and for the reputation of italian men of being womanizer. Recently the " scandles" of our ex- prime minister contributed to give this image of italy but these are women that choose to go with wealth men to obtain careers.

Also I want to remember that no one takes of the image of man in the world and talk only about women. But in commercials men are often represented to do manual jobs, or being in war, rarely smiling. This makes feel some man like slaughter meat. There is little debate or observation over this and the male condition.


ok, so what exactly where you trying to say here? spoiler alert: most advanced countries and even 3rd world countries have the same constitutional right as above. we are talking in relative terms here if you miss the point. italy is still below other european countries and even behind some other seemingly "backward" and third world societies in terms of women living better. the key word there is relative if you still miss it.

In conclusion, talking about bigotry, I am not a petulant child to say my country is better than yours or my institutions are better than yours as every county have positive and negative side and I would like the various nations to solve human problems togheter. but before critizing my state, America has still death penalty ( which would prevent it to join in the EU) It has one of the worst medical system in the first world and still the black pepole do not have same opprtunities in many segments in society. Even tho I dont usually judge an entire nation just by few elements ( this is very stupid to do so) but the previous user did so by critizing a whole enviroment in where I live.


who cares, im not an american.


Furthermore, colonization in most of colonized countries had very little if no influence on gender relations. What does have to do the colonial gender influence with were civil rights started reamains a mystery to me.


hehehe, and you still think you aren't ignorant?

Edited by Zeitgeist123, 08 May 2012 - 01:56 AM.

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#44
Logically Irrational

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Guys, I'm all for open discussion, but let's try and keep this a tad more on topic and respectful.

Much appreciated.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

#45
Italian Ufo

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Zeitgeist 123( I suggest you to change name since you didnt get the spirit of that ideology) you are not only ignorant (I tell to you one more time) but you seem mentally and logically inferior to me.

You come here and say that women would be better than man. The whole idea is sexist and offensive towards male gender. Both men and women have shown great leaders skills. Both sex complete each other as they have different qualities, a world governed with only women or a vast majority of women would not be very great.

Then You are fully idiotic about Italy. There are statistiscs that prove the opposite of what you say, and yes many national and intrenational statistics organs like ISTAT have criticized that stupid resource you cited and which you based your only knowledge. I already argued in depth the reasons. I am aware that Italy has problems but gender is not a big issue, not more than any other coutries. We have actully good maternity laws (better than many first world countries) and good social rights for women. And you can go to China and work there so you can tell me about the general work condtions of men and women in there..no problem.

You keep confusing oranges with apples. you are so unlogic, you talk about German Holocaust ( and without knowing the role of women in it) and you tell me that you dont need to read about European history lol moreover, when we talk about gender-relations and colonization you talk about where social rights started LOL(spade is a spade right)

"unfortunately, when europe try to colonize other countries they brought along their culture and bigotry to the matriarchal island natives as well"
LOL as you can see Then you come here and say that Europe is bigot, no Europe hasn't always be bigot. Europe has also been the homeland of Illuminism which many other states in the world took inspiration including many colonized countries. We didnt bring only bad things. These statements embarass yourself.


I am not misogynist (thats how you suppose to spell it not mysogenist) I have high respect for women and I am a very intelligent person, I wont tell you more about my job because i dont need to prove you anything.

Furthermore thats a small example of how Italian women feel about men in Italy they so hate us! lol
http://uk.answers.ya...14043016AAGzkaL


and about being a bigot..you are...when you refer about my culture"we are moulded by the society in which we live." I dont know where you from and I dont care, but your statments entitles that who ever grows up in Italy ends up being a narrow-minded person and being a misogynist. Thats so racist and very ignorant on your part thats clear to all. For how much racism is also a political ideology I consider racist pepole to be nothing more than a piece of dry excrement and thats what you are. ( the first racist on this forum's history)
Italians and many other foreigns who visit, live and love Italy would hang your head somewhere because of your words.( metaphorically speaking of course)


Now we can get to talk about artificial wombs

Edited by Italian Ufo, 08 May 2012 - 11:40 AM.


#46
Zeitgeist123

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Zeitgeist 123( I suggest you to change name since you didnt get the spirit of that ideology) you are not only ignorant (I tell to you one more time) but you seem mentally and logically inferior to me.

You come here and say that women would be better than man. The whole idea is sexist and offensive towards male gender. Both men and women have shown great leaders skills. Both sex complete each other as they have different qualities, a world governed with only women or a vast majority of women would not be very great.

Then You are fully idiotic about Italy. There are statistiscs that prove the opposite of what you say, and yes many national and intrenational statistics organs like ISTAT have criticized that stupid resource you cited and which you based your only knowledge. I already argued in depth the reasons. I am aware that Italy has problems but gender is not a big issue, not more than any other coutries. We have actully good maternity laws (better than many first world countries) and good social rights for women. And you can go to China and work there so you can tell me about the general work condtions of men and women in there..no problem.

You keep confusing oranges with apples. you are so unlogic, you talk about German Holocaust and you tell me that you dont need to read about European history lol moreover, when we talk about gender-relations and colonization you talk about where social rights started LOL(spade is a spade right)

"unfortunately, when europe try to colonize other countries they brought along their culture and bigotry to the matriarchal island natives as well"
LOL as you can see Then you come here and say that Europe is bigot, no Europe hasn't always be bigot. Europe has also been the homeland of Illuminism which many other states in the world took inspiration including many colonized countries. We didnt bring only bad things. These statements embarass yourself.


I am not misogynist (thats how you suppose to spell it not mysogenist) I have high respect for women and I am a very intelligent person, I wont tell you more about my job because i dont need to prove you anything.

Furthermore thats a small example of how Italian women feel about men in Italy they so hate us! lol
http://uk.answers.ya...14043016AAGzkaL


and about being a bigot..you are...when you refer about my culture"we are moulded by the society in which we live." I dont know where you from and I dont care, but your statments entitles that who ever grows up in Italy ends up being a narrow-minded person and being a misogynist. Thats so racist and very ignorant on your part thats clear to all. For how much racism is also a political ideology i consider racist pepole to be nothing more than a piece of dry excrement and thats what you are. ( the first racist on this forum's history)
Italians and many other foreigns who visit, live and love Italy would hang your head somewhere because of your words.( metaphorically speaking of course)


Now we can get to talk about artificial wombs


hehehe, im sorry but you arent better than me in so many ways (far from it), in fact you're so into the topic of women being very violent than men that i just have to point out to you how ignorant and dogmatic (not to mention laughable) you are in the concept you espouse, (spell: misogynistic) that it leaks out propaganda in your part. the light-hearted comment that i made with regards to women ruling the world meant to incite humor has now been overreacted by your serious preoccupation with hating women. now YOU get emotional when i try to point out the fact to you that italy is a SEXIST society and you're the byproduct (based on your comments) because im insulting your culture. well guess what, you're culture is definitely a sexist macho culture! im just showing you the ugly reflection. allow yourself to have a moment of contemplation. 'cause you're the one who started ruining this topic with your condescending side remarks may i remind you.

Edited by Zeitgeist123, 08 May 2012 - 12:03 PM.

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#47
Italian Ufo

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"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." - Albert Einstein used to say. You judge an entire group of pepole without knowing them directly and making deep investigation. You define pepole just on a stupid statistic.
You are a comic that soon will be forgot.
Your statements are very indocrtinated who ever reasons on these terms is indotrinated.
No I love women and I am aware that equality is way far in some areas. But we shouldnt repeat the mistake of the past.
An ideal world is a world where politican and economic power is equally distributed.
I wasn't the one who twisted the argument it just came by.

Edited by Italian Ufo, 08 May 2012 - 12:00 PM.


#48
Zeitgeist123

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whatever. im done talking to you. i would like to go back to the topic now instead of listening to your personal issues.
The right to be heard does not include the right to be taken seriously...

#49
Shimmy

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Completely artificial wombs would be far too expensive to maintain and would require constant equipment to keep them supporting the foetus. I strongly believe the future lies in animals carrying human children for us. With a little more research it should be easy to take a newly fertilised human embryo and implant it into an animals womb, with some minor genetic changes so the foetus receives the correct amount of certain nutrients etc to grow correctly. Think of it like a mix between a hospital and a zoo. The animal would be kept in a cage of area where people could keep an eye on it and feed it. If the animal was bored or had a low quality of life it could simply be heavily sedated for the majority of the time (nothing bad can happen when you're asleep). This way the woman still has excellent quality of life whilst the baby is growing and minimal scientific input is required after the initial surgery. The choice of animal could perhaps be left to the mother. It could be like an additional part of future children's identity. Like a nationality is now, one could say they were born a zebra (zebrain) or a rhino (rhinoan). There is also the possibility that economies of scale could come into play and it could end up being cheaper implanting about 50 foetus's into one whale for example. Personally if I had been born from an animal I would have liked it to have been a bear or a stag.

#50
Italian Ufo

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whatever, i am not intrested to talk to narrow-minded pepole either. I dont want to have further conversations with you.

Edited by Italian Ufo, 08 May 2012 - 08:12 PM.


#51
Italian Ufo

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Completely artificial wombs would be far too expensive to maintain and would require constant equipment to keep them supporting the foetus. I strongly believe the future lies in animals carrying human children for us. With a little more research it should be easy to take a newly fertilised human embryo and implant it into an animals womb, with some minor genetic changes so the foetus receives the correct amount of certain nutrients etc to grow correctly. Think of it like a mix between a hospital and a zoo. The animal would be kept in a cage of area where people could keep an eye on it and feed it. If the animal was bored or had a low quality of life it could simply be heavily sedated for the majority of the time (nothing bad can happen when you're asleep). This way the woman still has excellent quality of life whilst the baby is growing and minimal scientific input is required after the initial surgery. The choice of animal could perhaps be left to the mother. It could be like an additional part of future children's identity. Like a nationality is now, one could say they were born a zebra (zebrain) or a rhino (rhinoan). There is also the possibility that economies of scale could come into play and it could end up being cheaper implanting about 50 foetus's into one whale for example. Personally if I had been born from an animal I would have liked it to have been a bear or a stag.


Thats an intresting idea Shimmy. I read once about to put humans stem cells into the fetus of a pig so that while the pig develops so humans stem cells can develop with the animal. Scientists thought to do it only with limbs. So once the pig borns they detach the human limbo and put it to the humans. The problem is that you have a baby limb on your arm and it will take many years before it becomes an adult arm or leg. that was one of the major problems of this technology.

However in regards of the womb, i think that growing an human child inside of an animal would be seen as highly controversial for many.

#52
Raklian

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Raklian,don't exist this thing of "little homossexual",or a person is hetero,homosexual or bissexual(the latter you are refering of being little homosexual).

And what do you mean by men having more sexual options?He can be only hetero,homo or bissexual.Or you are talking about those people who feel attracted by animals(bizarre!)?


I was being sarcastic.

If there are twice as many women as there are men, men have "more options." More partners of varying types, you know?
What are you without the sum of your parts?

#53
Guyverman1990

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Artificial wombs would be good for placing the clones of extinct species or those near extinction. This will eliminate the need for finding the animal's closest living relatives as surrogate mothers, because it probably just won't be a good enough match.

For example, having a modern day elephant as a surrogate mother for a mammoth, or thylacines with present day Tasmanian devils or numbats and even a Gorilla with a human.

Edited by Guyverman1990, 15 June 2012 - 05:48 AM.


#54
kjaggard

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an artificial womb may be difficult but likely very valuble to society.

Endometriosis, cancers, risk of gestational diabetes, ect are all limiting factors for some people who wish to be mothers.

If you're one who goes for screening embryos for defects it allows multiple fertalised cells to be prepared and the one most likely not to carry genetic or epigenetic problems forward in family lines. (as a society we have gotten better at saving those whose genes lead to later health problems which allows more of those problems to be passed on, this can change the human gene pool to have more health problems as time goes on)

It also keep embryos in a medical setting such that proceedure to fix defects of formation or genes could be implemented. Imagine repairing type one diabetes so that nobody in a generation even knows what it is.

It's valuble also for repopulating wildlife, or even creating wildlife that's adapted to the change in climate.

But I think it's also valuable in the majority of the world as it will change the lives of women in ways that compare to birth control. A womans right of her health and how she uses her body, or her physical capabilities or work no longer have to be compromised by becoming a mother. And if a woman chose to do so she could never have a period and yet still be a mother some day.

This is also a chance to put an end to the stupid 'pro-life' vs 'pro choice' arguments. An unwanted pregnancy can simply be turned over to artificial womb and the pro-lifers can have it.

Unborn Children whose mother dies before giving birth could be brought to term in an artificial womb. Premature children could be brought to term. Miscarriages might be saved.

As people mentioned earlier, people can choose to extend their ability to have children past biological limits, and same sex couples or infertile people can have children.

in all probability artificial wombs would also be immensley valuble in the process of creating stemcells for adults who were born before stemcell harvesting and preservation for future need could be implemented. It would also likely work as a means of growing and preparing replacement organs and limbs (without growing the whole body, no clone butchery please).

But what somebody else said about creating a child from a womans cell, that's called a clone, you're only going to get females from womens cells and males from mens cells (unless you play around with endocrine levels agressively during formation). There was a report some years ago of being able to convert a skin cell into a sex cell (it may have been an egg cell or a sperm cell) which in women would be an X nomatter which half of the genes it got and in men would be fifty fifty chance of an x or a Y. From that point combine it with another to get an xx or an xy and you get the same process that nature tend to use. The added benefit of something like that is that if the mother has an issue with Mitochondrial DNA the egg cell might be made from fathers cells instead. So the Mitochondrial DNA trait won't be passed on but the mothers genes would.

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#55
FlameWave

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Yeah that whole idea sucks. Just adopt! There are already tons of kids out there living crappy lives, so if you can't have a child, that is where you should go. I also do not think this will make traditional families fade, you can thank divorces for that (yes, you Dad <= He's a lawyer -_-)


Oh the irony that I'm adopted and my parents are divorced and my Dad is a lawyer, lol.

Anyhow, by that time marriage should be low (according to the timeline around 2031) in numbers anyhow. I think it's odd but the advantages out weigh the negatives.




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