25 replies to this topic

[CyberMisterBeauty]

I was wondering about the possibility of manipulation of DNA and each person could redesign and choose the genes of your own genoma and change literally anything you want,and this could lead to human beings be divided into various races(I'm excluding mind uploading).The timeline itself have a reference of this(Search year 2220).What do you guys think?

[Alric]

I think the idea of different races would be irrelevant. For one everyone will still be able to breed with each other, and secondly if you can change your DNA then what you are born as doesn't really matter. So everyone might be different, but the DNA isn't passing from person to person by families so a race isn't going to develop. If your parents are race A you can simply alter your DNA to race B.

There isn't really going to be distinct races by any sort of modern definitions. I suppose you might get groups of people who have similar interests and so build their bodies to be similar. Though I think people will probably want to be individualistic and not just look like everyone else.

[SG-1]

I don't think people will modify their DNA. When the technology exists to change appearance, we will be able to without changing our DNA. Even if someone did, which would be unlawful most likely, they would have a hard time populating the Earth when people don't age. When people don't age there are more people, more people that live off the planet perhaps; and definitely people will not have as many children.

[CyberMisterBeauty]

SG-1,many times I disagree with you and now again I disagree,I think when genetic engineering reach the mainstream many people will alter their DNA just because genetic engineering is transhumanism technology,and who said it will be only useful for changing appearance?Do you read genetic engineering news?It's so nice,with that we could alter our genes to eat how many you want and whatever you want without gaining weight or other health problems,change genes to see ultraviolet and infrared radiation,alter genes to have greater sight or smell,alter genes to have some "powers" like emit eletroshock,bioluminescence or regeneration of lost limbs or organs,for exemple or even using genetic engineering to reverse aging.It will definitively radically alter our lives(I'm discarting mind uploading again).


And I don't think genetic engineering will be illegal simply because if it will be unlawful like you said all other human modification treatments will be illegal as well(Biotechnology,cybernetics,mind uploading and even enhancement and modification trhough nanomachines).As genetic engineering is a part of transhumanism,it will be affordable for everyone like the others technology too...


And the issue of appearing different races is very likely to happen,at least in my opinion.With so many option of genes to be turned on/off and the insert of new ones that don't exist in nature,this will lead to different species.For exemple you want to change your genes to became a vampire,your friends alter their genome to become elfs,other people use genetic engineering to transform into sirens or other types,humanity would end up in different races,that was I'm talking about...

[SG-1]

Yes but I still disagree haha. Lets just say that most people opt to keep their physical body (assuming changing DNA without being born again works and that by then artificial bodies are mainstream) and modify it. Would their sex cells change? What about their children? That's what would be illegal. Your modifying someone's body before they can ask for it. That's different from boosting health at birth though. Your talking about fundamentally changing dna for cosmetic and abilities nonessential to survival.

[CyberMisterBeauty]

Now I got it,you mean that even if you modify your genome you would be still human because you would ontinue to have 46 cromossomes isn't?But if you do genetic engineering to get one more cromossome you wouldn't be human anymore,would be another specie,isn't?

[Italian Ufo]

Michio Kauku was once talking about this issue in a documentary. According to his visions of the future, some governements may allow to alter just a percentage of the DNA but not all of it so that human capabilities could still be balanced. If I remember correctly, He was also talking of "illegal genes" ordered by wealthy pepole. These genes would give super powers which are not common in humans. In fact for him it will be hard to stop the trafficking of these gense just like now it is hard to stop the traficking of drugs. This is the example he made.
Anyway check Vision of the Future on You Tube. He explores the issue in depth.

[Saradus]

Now I got it,you mean that even if you modify your genome you would be still human because you would ontinue to have 46 cromossomes isn't?But if you do genetic engineering to get one more cromossome you wouldn't be human anymore,would be another specie,isn't?

No no, if you add one more chromosome (specifically the 21st chromosome) you get Down's Syndrome.

[CyberMisterBeauty]

So that mean that Down syndrome is a genetic desease,isn't it?So,to cure it just turn off or replace the gene responsable for that,isn't it?

[Saradus]

So that mean that Down syndrome is a genetic desease,isn't it?So,to cure it just turn off or replace the gene responsable for that,isn't it?

No doubt this will be possible in the foreseeable future (ONLY prior to birth though). Once the child is born, the trisomy 21 has already created physical and mental damage which simply removing the copies would no longer repair.

[CyberMisterBeauty]

I disagree because it's the DNA and the genes that are responsable for the appearance and functioning of an organism.So,if you change a gene certain caractheristics of your body will change as well...

I'm right because scientists are working on a technology that promises to cure genetic deseases by repplacing bad/failthy genes with good/normal ones.It's called gene therapy.


http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Therapy

[Saradus]

Yes gene therapy is a well-known medical practise. However, targeting a specific malformed or malicious gene strain is one thing, completely reworking the physical structure of someone's body and face is a whole different kettle of fish. It is highly unlikely that we'll have reached the stage of full genetic control in the next 100 years. But targeting genetic diseases at the pre-natal stage is perfectly feasible.

Just to clarify, when I mean changing the physical structure, I mean things like repairing disfigurement (at present it actually makes more sense to use more physical methods of repair like with this guy). However, things like making fat people thin is definitely something we'll be able to do soon as that would involve targeting specific gene strains.

EDIT: In fact looks like Will's just posted up an article which is talking about just that, targeting fat cells and converting them using gene therapy!

http://futuretimelin...nt-for-obesity/

Edited by Saradus, 08 May 2012 - 11:28 PM.

[SG-1]

That's like trying to change every cell's genes and every cell's physical traits.

Edited by SG-1, 09 May 2012 - 02:07 AM.

[GNR Rvolution]

I actually agree with CyberMisterBeauty on this one, I think that come the 22nd century different species are going to start to emerge. The genie is out of the bottle with genetics and it is only a matter of time before people start finding ways to enhance themselves genetically. Yes there would be cross-breeding but it's quite possible that along with physical diversity, social diversity will see those only of a similar genetic make-up as compatible, assuming of course that people aren't all having ex-vitro fertilisation and embryonic growth.

However I do think that this will be constrained to a minority for a long time to come, particularly as long as we hold to a capitalist society, only those willing to pay will be granted the privilege, and that means the wealthy will benefit more from this than the poor. Whether legislation can prevent this remains to be seen, but at the moment as long as you have money you can buy what you want. But even if the whole idea is made illegal I think people will still go down the black market route, possibly with clinics on islands that look the other way in return for 'benefits'.

[Raklian]

One thing we can count on is that the world is going to be radically different in almost every way, especially with genetic modifications as discussed here. So much that the citizens at the timeline will look upon us with disdain in the same way we look at people living in the dark ages with wonder how they were able to survive with that much ignorance.

Today, much of the population is uneasy (or even despise) of having a close relationship with others of different enthnic background (like blacks vs. white). Descrimination in all forms is widespread all over the planet. Having said that, it is going to take a dramatic change to the way we perceive about racial differences before we enter the era where everyone can be completely different to one other and get along without thinking about it.

Edited by Raklian, 09 May 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[CyberMisterBeauty]

I actually agree with CyberMisterBeauty on this one, I think that come the 22nd century different species are going to start to emerge. The genie is out of the bottle with genetics and it is only a matter of time before people start finding ways to enhance themselves genetically. Yes there would be cross-breeding but it's quite possible that along with physical diversity, social diversity will see those only of a similar genetic make-up as compatible, assuming of course that people aren't all having ex-vitro fertilisation and embryonic growth.

However I do think that this will be constrained to a minority for a long time to come, particularly as long as we hold to a capitalist society, only those willing to pay will be granted the privilege, and that means the wealthy will benefit more from this than the poor. Whether legislation can prevent this remains to be seen, but at the moment as long as you have money you can buy what you want. But even if the whole idea is made illegal I think people will still go down the black market route, possibly with clinics on islands that look the other way in return for 'benefits'.

Good,GNR,not only genetic engineering will make various different races,but other technologies also will,like cybenetics(lead to cyborgs),mind uploading(lead to full android-type transhumans) and biotechnology.Also,new artificial types will convive with us,like androids and synthetic mutants(created by synthetic biology),and of course,artificial intelligence,another kind of sentience that we can't forget.

Probably the different kinds of transhumans and the androids will see natural,biological humans as an inferior race.

[GNR Rvolution]

Good,GNR,not only genetic engineering will make various different races,but other technologies also will,like cybenetics(lead to cyborgs),mind uploading(lead to full android-type transhumans) and biotechnology.Also,new artificial types will convive with us,like androids and synthetic mutants(created by synthetic biology),and of course,artificial intelligence,another kind of sentience that we can't forget.

Probably the different kinds of transhumans and the androids will see natural,biological humans as an inferior race.

Genetic engineering has the capability of producing new species, but none of the other methods you mentioned do. It;s like saying a man with a false leg is a different species to homo sapiens. What it will likely produce is new social classes or groups, likely elevating those with money above those without. Whether transhumans and androids would see us as inferior remains to be seen though

[CyberMisterBeauty]

Of course mind uploading and cybernetic will,imagine a person with robotic limbs and organs but still having biological parts(a cyborg).The limbs give them superhero-like force and powers and the artificial organs(including bionic eyes and hearing)work with much more efficience and are much more resistant than their biological counterparts,and thus being immune to desease due to being robotic parts,an the robotic eyes and ears also give them far enhanced sight and hearing and thus this person will be able to do things thaoit are impossible to humans with the robotic parts.

Mind uploading will also obviously transform a person into a non-biological type,thus transforming the natural brain into a synthetic one and then transplanting it to a robotic body.They will be androids or simply called non-biologicals.It will also eliminates sleep.

The only technology that wouldn't dehumanise a person is nanotech.It will be only trillions of nanomachines repairing your body all the time,but they won't enhance you(unless if they join your brain cells and marry it to the computer).

[SG-1]

There is a huge difference between dehumanizing and changing into another species. Which is what you are talking about, yes the technology will exist but fundamentally we will be the same. What benefit would it be to change your species beyond loosing weakness? Which, I argue is only capable of being done after we have mastered mind uploading, or at least an Avatar. People won't want to change their species, they will want to shed weakness and gain strength. A super strong human that doesn't get sick is not another species - he is just attained a high degree of health.

I don't think ridding your body of pathogens and increasing muscle mass will change your species. Becoming immune to radiation, and growing wings etc is a species change. Still, what would we call them? Surely not everyone will have the SAME genes as other people. There would be 100s of species, I think its simpler to say they are homo superior. That line will be gray, it will always be gray.

[GNR Rvolution]

Indeed, the addition of cybernetic or other augmentation is just that, augmentation of the human species, it's not creating a new species, that can only be done through genetics. As mentioned in another thread though, if mind uploading does become a practical reality (not convinced) then we may have to redefine the definition of what it is to be called life, and by extension the definition of a species. I say again, is the person with a pacemaker fitted a different species?

Edited by GNR Rvolution, 11 May 2012 - 06:46 AM.