10 replies to this topic

[tubefuture]

Today I was searching the net and I found a map of the world in 2099. It is where the world is 4 degrees warmer. The problem is deserts would destroy 2/3 of the world. Even the oceans fish will die out! In would begin in America and Africa and then spread to Eurasia and Australia. But the good thing is Antarctica will eventually un-glaciate and become habitatable! Here are some recommended countries to be living in:
Canada
Russia
UK
Australia (Tasmania)
Anarctica
Scandinavia
Greenland
New Zealand

http://westcoastclim...009/03/2099.jpg

Now I think I want to move to Canada even if it's on the other side of the world or I could go to New Zealand which would be easier. SCREW MOVIN' TO JAPAN!

Edited by tubefuture, 18 June 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[AccutaneT]

I think that's right!

[kjaggard]

I don't know about that man. For starters the person who made that map seems especially hung up on nationalities. If you look at the map of north America you see the northern border of the US is pretty much the cutting point for habitable vs unable to support life. Which make no sense at all. Anybody who lives in northern US knows that their lifestyle and environment often are more like canadian conditions. It also fails to take into account the waterways that run down the middle of the country. The higher elevations of mountains where storms accumulate and temperatures are lower.

Basically How is prince edward Island luscious farm land and Maine and NH watseland?

I think this seems to be an eco-fiends vision of who deserves to get punched by the environment. For crying out loud New Zealand would be a tiny group of barely habitable islands with water levels and climate change, but they make it a prosperous wonder.

[stevo]

I don't know about that man. For starters the person who made that map seems especially hung up on nationalities. If you look at the map of north America you see the northern border of the US is pretty much the cutting point for habitable vs unable to support life. Which make no sense at all. Anybody who lives in northern US knows that their lifestyle and environment often are more like canadian conditions. It also fails to take into account the waterways that run down the middle of the country. The higher elevations of mountains where storms accumulate and temperatures are lower.

Basically How is prince edward Island luscious farm land and Maine and NH watseland?

I think this seems to be an eco-fiends vision of who deserves to get punched by the environment. For crying out loud New Zealand would be a tiny group of barely habitable islands with water levels and climate change, but they make it a prosperous wonder.

Exactly! Whoever make this stupid ass map is either Russian, Canadian or anti-American and hopes that global warming will make the US cease to exist! He's definitely biased in SOME WAY
i was wondering the exact same thing when i saw that the habitability line started in canada... at the border.

i would modify this map and move the line south to include the US Smokey & Rocky mountains since it's cooler up in the mountains, The pacific North West with it's cooler climate all the way down to San Fransisco, Northern Idaho, the upper midwest, Vermont, NW Maine, communities around the Mississippi river and great lakes using desalination methods and canals, Northern Illinois & Michigan desalinating and recycling water from the rivers and lakes around it, and inland NY state

Also, with Australia i would move the area of habitability to Southern Australia such as southern portions of NSW, the cooler mountains in NSW, the state of Victoria, Adelaide and places around S. Australia, the state of Tasmania, & Esperence, and Albany in WA that are rainy since the NT is hot as an oven EVEN NOW!

Russia i would agree with as well as with southeast asia and Mexico. i do think that Northern Europe and people in the higher Alps will be able to hang on though if they recycle drinking water by filtering urine and ocean water and hydroponically grow food indoors and abandon soil

i also think that people in Japan could just move higher up into the mountains since it's very mountainous as well as the people around the Andes and Himalayas where they'd collect water from fog, humidity and purified urine and use it to bath, drink, and hydroponically grow food with the people in Patagonia

[kjaggard]

alright here's something for folks:
http://www.populatio...nge/Summary.php

a series of maps that take population growth, water scarcity, agricultural growth, resciliance to climate change, and a sort of quality of life expectation for the populations based on trends of unmet needs and the above factors.

http://flood.firetree.net/

a map that can be use to show sea level rises around the world form 0-13 meters

http://www.climate-c...tml#temperature

Temperature, wind rainfall and climate change maps.

Basically it's not as doom and gloom as so many predict. Africa and the Arab world is pretty much Fucked and you can expect war, strife and refugees to just get worse on that score.

The climate changes in regions won't be quite so BOOM Canada is the new Florida. In the next thirty years we'll likely see wildlife and planting zones shifting north a rates that would be almost as trackable as the move of killer bee swarms. Mostly that will involve differing planting times and protective measures for frosts and heatwaves.

Irrigation methods and water usage changes will be needing update. and if there are increases in virticle farming it could partially mitigate or even negate climate concerns on food crops.

I'm used to north country living so the fact that our summers are going to be more like Georgia summers is going to take some getting used to. But if I get a spot of land in this area, milder winters and growing peaches and citrus wouldn't be a bad trade off.

[stevo]

I'm used to north country living so the fact that our summers are going to be more like Georgia summers is going to take some getting used to. But if I get a spot of land in this area, milder winters and growing peaches and citrus wouldn't be a bad trade off.

Where do you live? 'Cus in Portland and Seattle, it's been in the 50's and 60's but here in Indy, it feels like Mexico or Miami weather

Edited by stevo, 18 June 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[tubefuture]

Guys about the US, just remember that thoses plagues would return plus the more desertfication. You would still be able to live on the east coast, but thats the center of the plagues! So the US would actually be screwed!

[kjaggard]

I'm in New Hampshire. I could walk across Canadas border in a day from here.

Guys about the US, just remember that thoses plagues would return plus the more desertfication. You would still be able to live on the east coast, but thats the center of the plagues! So the US would actually be screwed!

"Those Plagues"? WTF are you talking about? First of all the US is on parallel with Canada with medical tech and the treatment of infectious disease. Second of all the nature of global travel means infectious disease effects populations more along the First world, second world, third world level rather than stopping at a countries borders, and that's why the most medically advanced countries in the First world would be sharing data and helping institute quarantine and rapid vaccination protocols along with the many hundreds of new medications being developed based of of gene/protein discoveries made in the last ten years.

As for the deserts spreading idea show me anything anywhere that demonstrates the expansion of desert territories that could possably support a coast to coast desert from mexico just to Canada.

Yes there may be depleted soils in small farming pockets in the south and mid west. But take a goo look at the history of the dust bowl and recovery from it. That's not the makings of a desert it's just forced change of agricultural practices, which is actually easier for us these days because during the dust bowl they didn't have techniques like hydroponics and aeroponics. The biggest hurdles will be energy crisis and water struggles. If the sea levels are rising and the fresh water inland is declining how much you wanna bet they figure out several doable desalination options and build a pipeline?

Oh no doubt there will be viruses and bacteria resistant to medecines coming into the country, and there will be a few drought hit regions that struggle. with two oceans between us and the fastest growing and lowest quality of life standards in the world the US and canada are well protected from diseases from outside and they are first world countries with tech levels that allow them to combat resistant strains of disease at least better than second and third world countries.

We also have those oceans and the mississippi river down the middle and the great lakes at the top and the gulf at the bottom. We got water. And we've got science and tech industries as well as corporate powers that given a reason will find ways to make it usable if for no other reason that to protect themselves from regional collapse.

There are no factors I can imagine that would lead to the map as shown. I'd go as far as to say that's pretty much impossible. It's about ten times worse than the worse case scenario would be. Not that the worst case scenario isn't bad but it's just not on that scale.

[MarcusAurelius]

[tubefuture]

I'm in New Hampshire. I could walk across Canadas border in a day from here.

Guys about the US, just remember that thoses plagues would return plus the more desertfication. You would still be able to live on the east coast, but thats the center of the plagues! So the US would actually be screwed!

"Those Plagues"? WTF are you talking about? First of all the US is on parallel with Canada with medical tech and the treatment of infectious disease. Second of all the nature of global travel means infectious disease effects populations more along the First world, second world, third world level rather than stopping at a countries borders, and that's why the most medically advanced countries in the First world would be sharing data and helping institute quarantine and rapid vaccination protocols along with the many hundreds of new medications being developed based of of gene/protein discoveries made in the last ten years.

As for the deserts spreading idea show me anything anywhere that demonstrates the expansion of desert territories that could possably support a coast to coast desert from mexico just to Canada.

Yes there may be depleted soils in small farming pockets in the south and mid west. But take a goo look at the history of the dust bowl and recovery from it. That's not the makings of a desert it's just forced change of agricultural practices, which is actually easier for us these days because during the dust bowl they didn't have techniques like hydroponics and aeroponics. The biggest hurdles will be energy crisis and water struggles. If the sea levels are rising and the fresh water inland is declining how much you wanna bet they figure out several doable desalination options and build a pipeline?

Oh no doubt there will be viruses and bacteria resistant to medecines coming into the country, and there will be a few drought hit regions that struggle. with two oceans between us and the fastest growing and lowest quality of life standards in the world the US and canada are well protected from diseases from outside and they are first world countries with tech levels that allow them to combat resistant strains of disease at least better than second and third world countries.

We also have those oceans and the mississippi river down the middle and the great lakes at the top and the gulf at the bottom. We got water. And we've got science and tech industries as well as corporate powers that given a reason will find ways to make it usable if for no other reason that to protect themselves from regional collapse.

There are no factors I can imagine that would lead to the map as shown. I'd go as far as to say that's pretty much impossible. It's about ten times worse than the worse case scenario would be. Not that the worst case scenario isn't bad but it's just not on that scale.

About that... THERE'S A FRICKING ECONOMIC BREAKDOWN! Think of it... There's no place where you can live actually plus you can't make medicine in an economic crisis. And it's a bad plague. Some really bad wasps that give people like an uncurable killing dieseases! You gotta reasearch that. You cannot live in a place with no fresh water, no animals and that means no food plus desert scoarching heats and NO medicines!

P.S. No offense but you probably should know that the United States probbaly has the worst life qualities in the "modern" world! Probably the only place that's worse is China. They fucked that up REAL bad.

Edited by tubefuture, 19 June 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[kjaggard]

About that... THERE'S A FRICKING ECONOMIC BREAKDOWN! Think of it... There's no place where you can live actually plus you can't make medicine in an economic crisis. And it's a bad plague. Some really bad wasps that give people like an uncurable killing dieseases! You gotta reasearch that. You cannot live in a place with no fresh water, no animals and that means no food plus desert scoarching heats and NO medicines!

P.S. No offense but you probably should know that the United States probbaly has the worst life qualities in the "modern" world! Probably the only place that's worse is China. They fucked that up REAL bad.

Economic crashes happen and they've happened in this country in the last century and much worse than now and within seven years the economy rebounded to levels of prosperity. The other direction is the breaking up of the union much like Russia faced in the ninties. The trick here is that when communist governments fail the people have been dependant on them have to build infrastructures to replace a centralised system of egalitarian resource distribution. When capitalist republics collapse you get city states that form around resource pools and existing corporate and community infrastructures that where in place as self empowered entities. It's the difference between a single warehouse store supplying all the population of an area and the old model of merchant families and caravans.

There are no places to live? Really that's interesting, the statistics I've been seeing say the housing industry has crashed and has stopped building because there are more houses than need for houses. The issue isn't 'no place to live', it's companies sitting on housing because they can't get their investment back at current housing market values so they are holding until prices go back up. That's less of a problem if the companies fail (which can happen in an economic downfall) or a large population of people take over abandoned land (what's going to happen, the only legal approach is lengthy court battles, then just relocate to a new property after eviction, eventually holding empty lands will simply become to difficult and expensive).

You most certainly can make medecines without a first world economy running. You seem to forget that penecillian, one of the biggest basis antibiotics in the world is derived from moldy bread. Vaccines depend pretty much on a system that takes the blood from somebody who has survived a virus and filtering out the cells and just leaving the antibodies that the new persons body can use to kill the virus and use the dead virus to analyse and synthesis more antibodies. This stuff was all doable before electricity. and we have more things now that we can implement in similar fashion. The advances in medicine are at least half advances in understanding how disease works. Not in machines and complex chemicals.

By closing country borders and setting up quarentine around the first signs of outbreak Pandemics can be minimised or halted all together. Vaccines and antivirals could be had in regions of outbreak rapidly and applied to those whose job it is to stop and cure the illnesses first. Something as simple as nanosilver coatings (which I can make at home with under a hundred dollars) can be used as antibiotics that bacteria and many viruses can't adapt to and can be embedded in clothing and used a a spray and surface cleaner and it makes the surface antibiotic until it's scrubbed away. We have the ability to make bacteria and viruses now too, imagine a disease comes along that is deadly and somehow able to get through quarentine and antibiotic/antiviral treattments and is immune to nanosilvers touch and it's 100% leathal so no means of getting antibodies. We could simple harvest a live sample of the disease, sequence it's gene in a few days make close cousin to the disease that is non leathal (likely leaving you with a sore throat and runny nose). Then give people that disease. It's like chicken pox and cow pox were used to protect against small pox, only we can design it to our needs and not have to find a naturally occuring one. And even better those that get the safer cousin version will have antibodies that should be usable to vacinate against the killer as well.

But all that is beside the point that there isn't a single source anywhere on the internet (where I can get data for how to sequence my own genenome and how to build the equiptment to do it) with data on a disease with pandemic capability spread by any insect vector, wasp or otherwise.

The closest thing is honey bee colony collapse which is a problem for plant pollenation not for disease vectors, But there are populations of bees that are not affected and there are other pollinating insect options. The only other thing is a fungal infection in species of ants in brazil that take over tthe brain of the ant and then consume it. But the fungus cannot live in any other animals it can't even switch to a different species of ant.

And your leap from a disease and economic struggles to no food and no water? 1) Even if you could kill every animal in the US my biology studies in highschool tell me that a carrot isn't an animal. Spirulina isn't an animal and it can provide protien and fats, just like soy which isn't an animal, neither is brocoli ect ect. 2) There is water everywhere. two and a half side of the US have oceans full of the stuff. Sure it's got salt in it, know how to solve that? Two five gallon plastic bottles comnnected with a tube, fill one with salt water and put it in the hot sun, the other one is in a chilled spot. Now walk away. That's the simplest approach you can do this with solar collectors to boil the water and generate steam that generates power and the steam condenses to clean water in a new container. easy.

Desert scorching heat? You mean the four degrees average temperature increase by mid to late centuries. Yes because an average temperature increase from 84 to 88 degrees will be death to us all. It is an average afterall so lets take three times that temperature, imagining that the entire increase in temperature is only during the summer quarter of the year 4x3=12, so 84F + 12F = 96F. Sun screen and a parasol solves most of that. Oh it might be hard on some plants. But not those we can get seeds from in texas and arizona which beat 96F regularly decades ago and still have thriving ecosystems.

As far as the US has the worst economic inequality, that is different that quality of life. Right now in one of the most expensive regions of the US to live in I can get a diet that will meet my nutritional and caloric needs for under 200$ a month, I can travel to and from a job every day in a nearby city for under 120$ a month. I can rent a place to live with housemate of under 400$ a month including utilities. Most of my other incidental costs are under 380$ per month and are not essential if it comes to it. The income I can earn from a 28 hour a week job is about 1000$ a month. Aside from my chronic illness I could live that lifestyle for ten years without concern.

I'm the bottom income in my area, and if I owned my own home I could pay less, and if I grew my own veggies even less. The part where The US fails is:
1) the fact that we spend more on healthcare than any other country and the quality we get for that is not equal to the cost difference. We are still above second world countries in quality but the cost limits access.
2) Our insurance industry is a scam
3) we spend more on war than the rest of the world combined
4) our government spends more then they generate in money and borrow to make up the difference
5) Legislation has been lobbied into place that permit economic policy that seperates funds from the majority of cummunity and populations to feed the addiction to profit of corporate organisations.
6) There is the illusion that's been sold of a consumerist infinate growth model, that is not only unsustainable but is infact a bubble that is bursting.

Those are economic inequalities and illusions that are relatively new (being less then a century old) and rapidly disapating as people wake up. But even if those were to persist, the standards of living in this country are not slums or even second world. And all the advancments made in tech and science in first world countries between the world wars and the 1980s happened in condition that today would be called second world.

If things go bad in the next three decades for the US, it may no longer be one of the superpowers of the world. Japan prospered for a long while without being a world superpower.

But my biggest issue in general is this illusion you have that hell shall rise and consume america and europe, but it will leave canada and russia alone. lol. Theres no invisible fence at the US Canada border that stops you imagined animal die off. There's no ruler that's been used to draw a line that says "Deserts can't cross here because a wizard did it."

Eco systems don't care what flag you wave, and climate change doesn't stop for socialism but descimate Capitalist Republics. If europe a the US are wastelands of nightmarish heat and can't sustain life then Canada and Russia are going to have regions of dead waste and the rest will be like souther california and mexico are today and gradually work up towards regions that might be more like the midwest in the US. But by then a lot more of the ice caps will be long gone and sea levels will be up way over 60 meters. That's a long long time off.