15 replies to this topic

[kjaggard]

What do you foresee?

Will we still think in male and female terms about humanity?
Will intersexed people get their own letter on their drivers for documents and ID?
Will we add new permutations to the old formulas?
Will marriages include alternatives to the Husband and wife?
Will there be multiple partners in a marriage?
Will we someday marry and have sex with non-human entities?
Will humans be able to swap genders for a vacation and then swap back?
Will human ideals of attractive members of the opposite sex become more or less realistic?
Will Gender inequality, better or worse?
Will there be more people moving in the direction or genderless/neuter?
Will attitudes about sexuality other than Hetero change?
What effects will VR play in gender and sexual identity?
What effects will biotech have on gender and sexual identity?
What effects will cybernetics and nanotech have on gender and sexual identity?

The topic of gender and sexuality are loaded, and I'm expecting that this is going to be a hot topic.

Plus I'll throw in the question, Why do you think the overwhelming majority of people here are male? Is there something about future advancement that women avoid, or are indifferent to? Is an opposition or more of an 'whatever will be will be' attitude?

[eacao]

Will we someday marry and have sex with non-human entities?

Think of dildos and flesh lights. Already do to an extent, adding other programmes and capabilities shouldn't pose a problem to people since it will likely be gradual.

Will humans be able to swap genders for a vacation and then swap back?[/background]

I could make an account here on the internet saying I'm a female. Changing your physical gender is of-course far more tricky.. But if VR holidays are the way of the future, I see no reason why not

Will human ideals of attractive members of the opposite sex become more or less realistic?

Cosmetic surgery will likely look very different in the future than it does today. Technologies like the robo-doc, skin-printing and face-transplants may totally change the way plastic surgery is seen and performed. It may be as routine as going to the dentist in a few decades.

What effects will VR play in gender and sexual identity?

The internet is in a sense a VR system. It's already having implications on gender stereotypes and identity. People fake gender all the time on online games like runescape. They put on fake personas and conjure fake histories.

What effects will biotech have on gender and sexual identity?

Biotech is already having enormous gender and sexual equality implications. In Bombai, since the advent of ultra-sound, allowing parents to determine the gender of an unborn child, 7997 out of every 8000 abortions are female. Only three out of every eight-thousand abortions are male. Now parents are able to choose the gender of their child prior to fertilisation. When that tech hits the third world, and even in the first world there will be very large disproportions in the ratio of men to women, and when the ratio is.. 100:110 women:men, that means there will be 35 million men in the US, or 130 million men in China for example who will not be able to find a wife. Just imagine the types of social divides that will produce.

Edited by eacao, 29 June 2012 - 02:37 AM.

[tornado64]

Biotech is already having enormous gender and sexual equality implications. In Bombai, since the advent of ultra-sound, allowing parents to determine the gender of an unborn child, 7997 out of every 8000 abortions are female. Only three out of every eight-thousand abortions are male. Now parents are able to choose the gender of their child prior to fertilisation. When that tech hits the third world, and even in the first world there will be very large disproportions in the ratio of men to women, and when the ratio is.. 100:110 women:men, that means there will be 35 million men in the US, or 130 million men in China for example who will not be able to find a wife. Just imagine the types of social divides that will produce.

I think in most first world countrys it's not like in China or India. The majority of the people who want to choose the gender beforehand want actually have a female child. But in China and India this will be a big problem. The normal ratio is something of about 103 to 105 male to 100 female to keep a balance. In some places in China the ratio is now about 130:100, but in the big cities this changes already. With people getting higher living standards and living in the city it will go back to normal levels over time.

[Alric]

I think eventually we will all be robots and people will be able to switch back and forth at any time, or may remain both or neither for long periods of time. I think as we go forward gender is slowly going to drop away and what remains is going to be extremely fluid. Also people do have sex with animals and stuff already, if that is what you are talking about. If you are asking if it will be more mainstream, well probably if you include VR bodies or robot bodies. You can have sex with other humans who might be in different shapes. Especially if VR really takes off. It is easy to picture people playing elves on some VR game, and it isn't much more extreme for people to play other things, and if they do sex may happen.

That is all a ways away(though I am still thinking within 30 years.) Hopefully far sooner than that we will have equality for gay marriages and become more accepting of all kinds of marriages.

[Lily]

I'm just going to throw in another question:
Do you think humans will continue to be viviparous? (Those who read Brave New World will know... bottles...)

[Raklian]

When we get to the point where we develop human babies in the lab, it is likely that we will ask ourselves: What is the point of women having an uterus when we can grow a baby in an artificial uterus in a lab? It'll be interesting to speculate how we as a human species are going to do about it, given our growing technological sophistication. It is possible that we can do away with the uterus but leave the cervix and vagina canal intact. What do you think is the best part of a woman's body we men (apologies to any females here) like? I think we'd rather keep it "existing" for some time .

[Alric]

We might eventually ask, why have babies at all? Heck a lot of people already don't want to have babies. Once we have computer bodies and people can live forever and stuff, the need for babies will drop even more.

[Raklian]

We might eventually ask, why have babies at all? Heck a lot of people already don't want to have babies. Once we have computer bodies and people can live forever and stuff, the need for babies will drop even more.

So, digital sex will become the rave, eh?

[Zeitgeist123]

What do you foresee? in my dream: a resource-based almost utopic world. in reality: doom doom doom.

Will we still think in male and female terms about humanity? probably not in the far future.

Will intersexed people get their own letter on their drivers for documents and ID?
yes, id have to beleive that there will be new gender that's gonna come up aside from male and female in the far future.


Will marriages include alternatives to the Husband and wife?

Maybe husband & husband or wife & wife, would be normal in the very near future as gay marriage will become normal event.

Will there be multiple partners in a marriage?
Maybe this issue will be challenged in the near future.

Will we someday marry and have sex with non-human entities?
Yes, if non-human entities are as sentient or more sentien as us.


Will humans be able to swap genders for a vacation and then swap back?
Yes, far future.

Will human ideals of attractive members of the opposite sex become more or less realistic?
Yes, standard of beauty will be achievable by the masses as nanotecth, biotech and genetic manipulation tech becomes ubiquitous. not only on standards of beauty, but also on tinkering on intelligence, athelticism, strength, maybe even wit, personality and cleverness.

Will Gender inequality, better or worse?
better maybe after we reached post-scarcity. minds will change dramatically.


Will there be more people moving in the direction or genderless/neuter? possibly, but i dont think it would be as popular for a while.

Will attitudes about sexuality other than Hetero change?
Yes.

What effects will VR play in gender and sexual identity?
People would rather have hookups on VR than on real life, if VR would be as life-like or better than the real thing.


What effects will cybernetics and nanotech have on gender and sexual identity?
An orgy of happiness.

Plus I'll throw in the question, Why do you think the overwhelming majority of people here are male? Is there something about future advancement that women avoid, or are indifferent to? Is an opposition or more of an 'whatever will be will be' attitude?
The same way that Marie Curie is the only female nobel laureate people knows about.

[Alric]

I think the reason there are less woman here is because woman are conditioned to be less involved in science and technology. Though that is slowly changing. I am sure a lot of this stuff is as interesting to woman as it is men.

[MarcusAurelius]

Biotech is already having enormous gender and sexual equality implications. In Bombai, since the advent of ultra-sound, allowing parents to determine the gender of an unborn child, 7997 out of every 8000 abortions are female. Only three out of every eight-thousand abortions are male. Now parents are able to choose the gender of their child prior to fertilisation. When that tech hits the third world, and even in the first world there will be very large disproportions in the ratio of men to women, and when the ratio is.. 100:110 women:men, that means there will be 35 million men in the US, or 130 million men in China for example who will not be able to find a wife. Just imagine the types of social divides that will produce.

I think in most first world countrys it's not like in China or India. The majority of the people who want to choose the gender beforehand want actually have a female child. But in China and India this will be a big problem. The normal ratio is something of about 103 to 105 male to 100 female to keep a balance. In some places in China the ratio is now about 130:100, but in the big cities this changes already. With people getting higher living standards and living in the city it will go back to normal levels over time.

Trust me if you were to come to China you would see alot more women than men in most chinese cities. Its realy quite the urban myth that China has some women shortage or what have you. If this was the case why is there so many women available to go around for even mixed couples too. You would think Chinese men would scorn chinese women for choosing a foreigner. But in fact there are too many to go around that nobody could care less. It is also a known scientific fact that the older a man has kids the more likely he will produce women. China is becoming more westernized and people are beginning to hold off on children in favor of building careers and finances first.

http://www.psycholog...-have-daughters

[Lily]

Plus I'll throw in the question, Why do you think the overwhelming majority of people here are male? Is there something about future advancement that women avoid, or are indifferent to? Is an opposition or more of an 'whatever will be will be' attitude?
The same way that Marie Curie is the only female nobel laureate people knows about.

I can only speak for myself, but why should women have an opposition or "whatever-will-be" attitude in the first place? Because we're of lower intelligence than men? Not really. Because everything a woman wants to achieve is getting pregnant and have lots of children? I really hope this is not true, although I have to admit some of my friends think that way. One of them was shocked when I told her I did not plan to have children (at least at the moment, who knows in 20 years?) and she asked me incredulously how I could live like that, because as a female you have to ask yourself when you are going to have children and plan your future accordingly. To say that I was pissed is an understatement, although I did not argue with her after she refused to hear my arguments - she's set on her ways, so, well...

In my books it is just a matter of education and conservative thinking. It has always been this way, so-why-change-it kind of attitude. Women who really try hard in sciences and such are often looked down upon and referred to as strange, in my experience. I have been playing computer games since I was six, had a lot of interest for "boyish" things - and it was considered strange! That doesn't mean I don't enjoy shopping and the like (things that are often linked to females), but it does influence the way your peers see you, male and female.

I think the reason there are less woman here is because woman are conditioned to be less involved in science and technology. Though that is slowly changing. I am sure a lot of this stuff is as interesting to woman as it is men.

I'd like to agree with this. The future and technological advancement ist really fascinating, and I do think it has a similar effect on women as it has on men. The thing is that you are often discouraged to follow this through. Girls are more likely to hear that physics or maths aren't really that important, that it is not something girls have to be good at etc. I've often heard it myself! Just like there are subjects in which boys are told they do not have to be good at.
To be honest, there was a time when I even believed it because maths was not exactly my strong point, but then my interest in technology was sparked and I try now to find my own path. My lack of knowledge does intimidate me often enough, though, and makes me feel inferior, so that it's hard to me to speak up in class for example, when our teacher asks something or so.

Anothe rpoint is that males have been using the internet a bit longer than females have, it seems. At the beginning it was something nerdy and boyish, to spend you time in front of a computer. This has changed a lot the past years, and so, I think, will it be in science.

Edited by Lily, 01 July 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[MarcusAurelius]

Lily I salute you for being one of the few but steadfast women out there who pursues knowledge and consequently science and technology in this case. I agree with you that alot of girls are discouraged on this be it by society or cultural values. Its also amusing that you mentioned how other women view you as almost an affront to their comfortable worldview on femininity. I hope that changes in the coming generations. I am sure science will see alot of changing trends in the near future. As technology rises, so will the awareness of science, and I predict an increasing number of scientifically literate individuals, in much the same way this decade has seen a rise in computer literacy.

You are right that men have enjoyed an affinity with technology and in this case computers and the internet alot longer than women. But that suddenly changed when the internet became more sociable than say in the 90s. I remember a time when the ratio of men to women online was depressing to say the least. Now its well more balanced and women are embracing technology at unprecedented levels. Now you can't throw a stone in a crowded train without hitting 2 or 3 women typing away on their smartphones in some social site and nobody are calling those girls nerdy or boyish thats for sure. I bet in another decade the same will be true about science and womens participation in that field.

All I can say is to remain undaunted by what others say, and don't feel intimidated by lack of knowledge. The internet is filled with good quality science news everywhere, and if you read copiously as I do... then its only a matter of time before you become well versed in all things science related. I encourage you to do so, and not let any of that deter you. And I am glad there is a woman amongst us to keep these pages fair and balanced in opinion. By the way I would be surprised if humans remained viviparous after 2050. Or at least not by a lack of choice.

[kjaggard]

I can only speak for myself, but why should women have an opposition or "whatever-will-be" attitude in the first place? Because we're of lower intelligence than men? Not really. Because everything a woman wants to achieve is getting pregnant and have lots of children? I really hope this is not true...

In my books it is just a matter of education and conservative thinking.

I think the reason there are less woman here is because woman are conditioned to be less involved in science and technology. Though that is slowly changing. I am sure a lot of this stuff is as interesting to woman as it is men.

I'd like to agree with this. The future and technological advancement ist really fascinating, and I do think it has a similar effect on women as it has on men. The thing is that you are often discouraged to follow this through. Girls are more likely to hear that physics or maths aren't really that important, that it is not something girls have to be good at etc. I've often heard it myself! Just like there are subjects in which boys are told they do not have to be good at.
To be honest, there was a time when I even believed it because maths was not exactly my strong point, but then my interest in technology was sparked and I try now to find my own path. My lack of knowledge does intimidate me often enough, though, and makes me feel inferior, so that it's hard to me to speak up in class for example, when our teacher asks something or so.

Anothe rpoint is that males have been using the internet a bit longer than females have, it seems. At the beginning it was something nerdy and boyish, to spend you time in front of a computer. This has changed a lot the past years, and so, I think, will it be in science.

mostly I am referring to the way that my region tends to compartmentalize and be a bit patronizing with the concepts of "boys and their toys." and "men just have to always fiddle around with and 'fix' things." that's the polite stuff (misogynist, privileged, ego-centric, hierarchical, domineering, overcompensating, testosterone addled, ect put any three together mix and match and use them to suit your needs to describe things like why men dominate in fields concerned with machines and electronics and science and industry).

Meanwhile in the younger female population of my area the pressure from women to women to conform to group patterns of being seen, trying to catch a man, comparing who receives the most extravagent gifts, ect seems to dominate. Meanwhile the gamer girls and 'nerdy' girls are ridiculed. Even had a friend who was a talented athlete and because of her athletic tendencies was dubbed Jan the Man by the other girls. She was model grade looks, had a great singing voice, was genuinely a kind person, and intelligent... but sort of seen as fringe, because she was assertive and athletic thus too manly.

But specifically I'm wondering, because there is no reason I can see, why contemplating the future and the changes it will have on our lives and communities sees less exploration by women. Not so much what stops them but it almost seems like few that I've known look in that direction. Rather like somebody who has never tried sushi, not because of any objection or food allergies, but just because it's something that never occurs to them to seek out and try.

In fact the best conversations about science and tech and the accelerating future I've had with women have been with women over the age of 57, most of them have lost a spouse of another family member to medical illness (cancer, diabetes complications, heart disease, MS, ect.) years ago. So now they look at the causes of death as opponents to be beat, and see the breakthroughs happening as tools to do that, and meanwhile they are one of the fastest growing advocate groups of environmentally sustainable developments and internet networking people (loosing family, I think, tends to strengthen the connections you have, and the ability to connect daily with people you grew up with across the country makes electronics even more appealing).

Admittedly I'm an odd case and I'm rather withdrawn most of the time anyway, but in the last few years I've been becoming active in communities around me. What I see is groups of philosophers, political activists, artists, spiritual groups, gamers, futurists... you get groups of five guys for every woman, the guys age range from 19-62 years old and all walks of life. The women are usually over 50 and almost exclusively have worked in social services or some advocacy group at some point in their lives.

I asked this question because unless I'm missing something men do not have the same sort of lack of representation in areas of culture that have such wide sweeping implications for the world and human lives. It seems rather imbalanced and for no apparent reason other than 'that's the way it is'.

I don't believe for a minute that it's lack of ability, or buy the idea that women don't think about or have valuable insights to these fields, that's just bull____. I worry about a Whatever-will-be-will-be attitude because it's something that implies a sense of powerlessness to decide your own path and to make positive change in your world.

The rest of the questions tend to come from some of the ways in which we talk about gender and sexuality being 'no big deal' and not a factor in the modern world, but it's so basic to human nature that every day multiple times a day we unconsciously do things and think things where they are factors and they make or break deals. As a person connected with communities of people currently testing the edges of these boundaries I'm seeing some of the confusion and backlash to questioning these things.

The fact that there are people born who are neither clearly male, or female , creeps people out or inspires questions like "Can I see?" whenever somebody finds out. Can you imagine somebody asking to see your genitals when you meet them? Can you imagine spending your life trying to pass as one or the other just so that you can get groceries without having to be a spokes model at best or a creepy freak at worst in the eyes of people everyday?

Then there are those that feel they were born wrong and wish to be who they feel they should have been, and how others see them as sinful or perverted.

Gay and Lesbian causes and opposition, too.

All of these are based on things that we seem to culturally acknowledge as being things we should not discriminate against, but somehow the discrimination still happens. But at the same time there seems to be a growing acceptance and a willingness to challenge and change those mindsets. And as the future comes the ability to blur those lines and remove them or switch perspectives temporarily could further degrade those lines. So maybe things that were unseen, or covered up by an illusion of a gender binary with a hetero-normative thought process, will become mainstream and I was curious how people felt about that or what their thoughts on it were.

[Lily]

It is important and it is very interesting, too, kjaggard. I like how people always say "Gender does not matter to me, I look at the personality and judge people upon their abilities and actions." ...ehm, not really. They, and I am too, are biased because of their upringing and social/cultural education. Religion plays a huge part in this as well.

I haven't got much time now, so I'll just mention something: The media. I do not know how it is in America or other countries, but here I have noticed this double-standard in the way genders are portayed in the media that really annoys me. It is some kind of feminism mixed with the overly conservative presentation of gender roles.
Women are shown to be frail, weak and constantly in need of help, some kind of victimization, while males are either the strong protecting ones or the very reason for women's downfall - presented as rapists, aggressors and dominating, self-absorbed egoists.

Don't get me wrong, I think 'fighting' for women's equal rights is important, but feminist groups often forget that men have problems too, and that they are not inherently evil because of their gender. *sigh*
Sometimes it seems as if there's some kind of war going on between males and females, and this ist just time consuming and totally pointless, as there's no stop to it and drives us apart.

Women had to endure a lot in the past and equality has not been reached completely yet, but it's no use to see oneself as a victim because of being born a woman. (And I am terribly lucky to live in a country like Germany, where this is possible:) You can change and form your future! I don't like the mindset often displayed that you have a disadvantage just because you're a woman, and so you can just lay back and relax (figurativley). It is no excuse for not trying. And, for me at least, taking part in technology discussions, learning about the future, maybe one day even working in this field, is the way to go. Not self-pity. Not hating against men. You'll have to do something on your own and not wait until someone comes and brings it to you.

[eacao]

Longevity and anti-aging is going to play a big role in how we treat sex and reproduction. In the first world nations, people are delaying having children further and further because they're putting their own lives and careers first. In third world nations, for a variety of reasons, women and couples can be expected to have children much younger - in their teens or early 20s. When your life span is to 50, you don't want to wait until you're 35 to have kids, but when your life span reaches 80-90, the only time limit is your physical age and your reproductive health. When longevity treatments come around, along with technologies like in-vitro fertilisation and external pregnancy, you can expect parents to choose to have children decades later. If a couple are 60 with the physical health and appearance of a 20 year old, then it makes sense to develop your career first, and have kids after you're financially well off and stable, and after you've lived your life to the fullest. When life spans extend past 140 or 150, I think you'll see parents having their first child after 60 or 70.