36 replies to this topic

[wjfox]

http://physics.ucsd..../why-not-space/

[Caiman]

I think he makes a convincing argument- even the current 'private' enterprises for getting into space are a long way from breaching LEO, let alone carrying humans to other planets and establishing colonies. Hopefully, we can get such an endeavour underway before we run out of the rare metals and elements we need to make a serious migration to another world. Just imagine if all the money and effort that went into maintaining global militaries was redirected for a single year... *sigh*

[Raklian]

We are very misguided, indeed.

Maybe that's why alien civilizations who are aware of us don't bother contacting us.

[SG-1]

What if we were the first intelligent species? What if there are no civilizations out there as intelligent as we are. They may just be getting comfortable with walking or tackling calculus.

All I know is, if I was an advanced civilization I would want to contact a species such as humanity, or if not than at least prevent them from destroying themselves. As an immortal, type 3 alien why would they want to see us die out? That is my opinion.

[Caiman]

What if we were the first intelligent species?

I suppose at some point in the history of the universe, there has to be a first... but when I look at an image like this, the ultra deep field from Hubble, and consider that all these galaxies visible are contained within 3 arcseconds, which is about the size of a 1mm square bit of paper held a meter from your eye, well the chances of us being the first just seem infinitesimally small.

In turn, the same image might go some way to explaining why we haven't been contacted yet. The universe is pretty damn big, and we've only been broadcasting our presence in it for less than a century. Perhaps no one knows we're here yet- other than that, whilst we can dream of faster than light travel and superluminal communication, as far as we know, both are and will stay impossible, so perhaps their messages are on their way, or we missed them.

[EVanimations]

Humans being the first intelligent life seems like a stretch to me. Considering that Earth's life has experienced so many mass extinctions in its 4.5-billion-year lifespan that caused the existing life to regress a bit, I can't help but wonder how far the life of a planet that never experienced a mass extinction would have gotten.

There's a chance this has happened. A small one, yes, but a chance still. I'm trying to imagine unspeakably ancient creatures that have gotten a 2-billion-year head start on us.

[Alric]

At the start of the article he gives a very generous time scale, 500 years. In 500 years I think it is almost a given we will have people living some where besides earth. I agree with most of the issues he brought up, but I think most will be solved within the first 100 years. I think we are well on schedule if we are looking 500 years out.

[HopDavid]

http://physics.ucsd..../why-not-space/

And after that Murphy did another post titled "Stranded Resources"

Murphy's math is wrong.

[Zeitgeist123]

What if we were the first intelligent species? What if there are no civilizations out there as intelligent as we are. They may just be getting comfortable with walking or tackling calculus.

All I know is, if I was an advanced civilization I would want to contact a species such as humanity, or if not than at least prevent them from destroying themselves. As an immortal, type 3 alien why would they want to see us die out? That is my opinion.

I have always wished and hoped that we are the first and only sentient species in the universe. I can imagine if there are intelligent aliens who are more technologically advanced than us and come to earth one day, there is a high probability that they'll be dominating and predatory rather than benevolent and we will surely lose.

Edited by Zeitgeist123, 13 July 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Mr. G]

[I have always wished and hoped that we are the first and only sentient species in the universe. I can imagine if there are intelligent aliens who are more technologically advanced than us and come to earth one day, there is a high probability that they'll be dominating and predatory rather than benevolent and we will surely lose.

Have you seen War of the Worlds? It is highly unlikely that our planet would be hospitable to them. Life on Earth is perfectly adapted to live on Earth. Everything from gravity, to air pressure, to respiration, to bacterial and viral resistance would most likely kill them. Or I could be wrong........

G

[GNR Rvolution]

I have always wished and hoped that we are the first and only sentient species in the universe. I can imagine if there are intelligent aliens who are more technologically advanced than us and come to earth one day, there is a high probability that they'll be dominating and predatory rather than benevolent and we will surely lose.

Why do you think that there is a high probability that they will be dominating and predatory? Although it's certainly one reason that they might be likely to seek us out, it is only one of many reasons. Personally I find it difficult to believe that any species that has made it across the void of space to get to us would ever have any ill intentions, there's so much room out there what reason could they possibly have for wanting to wipe us out? Of course these are, by their very definition, alien species so their motives and reasons for doing anything may be incomprehensible to us, but I would say the probability of meeting an aggressive alien species is low and not high...

[GNR Rvolution]

Have you seen War of the Worlds? It is highly unlikely that our planet would be hospitable to them. Life on Earth is perfectly adapted to live on Earth. Everything from gravity, to air pressure, to respiration, to bacterial and viral resistance would most likely kill them. Or I could be wrong........

G

If they managed to get all the way to Earth, I'm sure they will be able to live within our physical environment (maybe with a bit of 'terraforming' to suit their needs), and their alien physiology, combined with technical prowess, would probably mean that our lifeforms would be simply incompatible with theirs...

[Raklian]

I have always wished and hoped that we are the first and only sentient species in the universe. I can imagine if there are intelligent aliens who are more technologically advanced than us and come to earth one day, there is a high probability that they'll be dominating and predatory rather than benevolent and we will surely lose.

Why do you think that there is a high probability that they will be dominating and predatory? Although it's certainly one reason that they might be likely to seek us out, it is only one of many reasons. Personally I find it difficult to believe that any species that has made it across the void of space to get to us would ever have any ill intentions, there's so much room out there what reason could they possibly have for wanting to wipe us out? Of course these are, by their very definition, alien species so their motives and reasons for doing anything may be incomprehensible to us, but I would say the probability of meeting an aggressive alien species is low and not high...

What if our planet is in the middle of a Galactic super-highway construction? Hmm? I think the motive couldn't be any more clearer.

But then, on a second thought, if they are able to build highways on a galactic scale, I'm sure they have spare resources to move the entire Solar System a bit to the side...

Edited by Raklian, 13 July 2012 - 01:48 PM.

[GNR Rvolution]

I have always wished and hoped that we are the first and only sentient species in the universe. I can imagine if there are intelligent aliens who are more technologically advanced than us and come to earth one day, there is a high probability that they'll be dominating and predatory rather than benevolent and we will surely lose.

Why do you think that there is a high probability that they will be dominating and predatory? Although it's certainly one reason that they might be likely to seek us out, it is only one of many reasons. Personally I find it difficult to believe that any species that has made it across the void of space to get to us would ever have any ill intentions, there's so much room out there what reason could they possibly have for wanting to wipe us out? Of course these are, by their very definition, alien species so their motives and reasons for doing anything may be incomprehensible to us, but I would say the probability of meeting an aggressive alien species is low and not high...

What if our planet is in the middle of a Galactic super-highway construction? Hmm? I think the motive couldn't be any more clearer.

But then, on a second thought, if they are able to build highways on a galactic scale, I'm sure they have spare resources to move the entire Solar System a bit to the side...

Problem is we are actually in the way of a galactic superhighway bypass, so they'd already had to build it around something else, probably some SSSI or AONB

[eacao]

I think there are a lot of holes in that article. I'm not convinced at all.

[eacao]

Humans being the first intelligent life seems like a stretch to me. Considering that Earth's life has experienced so many mass extinctions in its 4.5-billion-year lifespan that caused the existing life to regress a bit, I can't help but wonder how far the life of a planet that never experienced a mass extinction would have gotten.

There's a chance this has happened. A small one, yes, but a chance still. I'm trying to imagine unspeakably ancient creatures that have gotten a 2-billion-year head start on us.

I agree that in all odds we are not the first 'intelligent' species in the universe, but in our little pocket of the galaxy I think the chances are good. It took 4.5 billion years for the Earth to produce the first space-fairing species. It might well not happen within a 1,000ly radius of Earth. It's difficult to say whether or not intelligent life exists anywhere else since the definition most people have is us. If we went to another world and found wolves - social creatures that communicate, ambush and plan then are they intelligent? Absolutely, but not the kind we're looking for. We're looking for a mirror image of ourselves out there. And I think it will be difficult to find that, since all technology criteria need to be met for advanced technology.
- A powerful brain. Large doesn't always mean powerful, crows have extremely powerful brains but they're tiny.
- Manipulators. Dolphins are super smart, but they don't build technology because they have little, stubby flippers.
- Good sensors. Our eyes give us great detail of the world. Sonar could be another one, sonar in labs has been produced to give amazing 3d detail, allowing for computers to more efficiently recognise faces (since they're getting a complete 3d model rather than a picture).
- Communication and knowledge sharing. Super-duper important, so many species on Earth would be so much more advanced culturally and in all likelihood technologically if they could just talk. Octopi (octopuses) are extremely intelligent and they have better manipulation of their environment than us. They however have weak eyes, live alone and females die after hatching their eggs. If they lived in communities and lived past maternity however, they could well develop an understanding of science. They have great problem solving abilities. Math is also not unique to humans. Some dogs can do simple addition and multiplication. Horses too. Dolphins run rings around both of them, and I know plenty of humans who are just that dumb, they shouldn't be considered intelligent. If you example intelligence to be math, language and problem solving.

Enough about by anti-centralist rant. If we ever want to discover intelligent life out there, we're going to have to change our definition of intelligence. Actually make a definition in fact. Our definitions aren't really definitions, they're ways of differentiating humans from all other animal species. It's a way of maintaining our ego rather than producing something scientific.

[Raklian]

I have always wished and hoped that we are the first and only sentient species in the universe. I can imagine if there are intelligent aliens who are more technologically advanced than us and come to earth one day, there is a high probability that they'll be dominating and predatory rather than benevolent and we will surely lose.

Why do you think that there is a high probability that they will be dominating and predatory? Although it's certainly one reason that they might be likely to seek us out, it is only one of many reasons. Personally I find it difficult to believe that any species that has made it across the void of space to get to us would ever have any ill intentions, there's so much room out there what reason could they possibly have for wanting to wipe us out? Of course these are, by their very definition, alien species so their motives and reasons for doing anything may be incomprehensible to us, but I would say the probability of meeting an aggressive alien species is low and not high...

What if our planet is in the middle of a Galactic super-highway construction? Hmm? I think the motive couldn't be any more clearer.

But then, on a second thought, if they are able to build highways on a galactic scale, I'm sure they have spare resources to move the entire Solar System a bit to the side...

Problem is we are actually in the way of a galactic superhighway bypass, so they'd already had to build it around something else, probably some SSSI or AONB

Then I guess forced evacuations are in order... all of sudden, an enormous space craft fills the entire blue sky and a loud voice (as if through a speaker) booms - "Evacuation alert: Be prepared to board immediately!"

I smile at the thought of seeing the horror on people's faces as they look upright... Just a few moments ago, who knew we weren't alone in the entire Universe.

[Zeitgeist123]

I have always wished and hoped that we are the first and only sentient species in the universe. I can imagine if there are intelligent aliens who are more technologically advanced than us and come to earth one day, there is a high probability that they'll be dominating and predatory rather than benevolent and we will surely lose.

Why do you think that there is a high probability that they will be dominating and predatory? Although it's certainly one reason that they might be likely to seek us out, it is only one of many reasons. Personally I find it difficult to believe that any species that has made it across the void of space to get to us would ever have any ill intentions, there's so much room out there what reason could they possibly have for wanting to wipe us out? Of course these are, by their very definition, alien species so their motives and reasons for doing anything may be incomprehensible to us, but I would say the probability of meeting an aggressive alien species is low and not high...

Well, my guess would be that there is a very little chance that an alien from a different star would think and feel the way we do. There are highe chances that they would do things that would totally annihilate us and they would'nt even have a clue that we didn't like it. They may have a totally advanced technology but that doesn't mean that they have an adnvanced knowledge of our "human" psychology. I mean, what if they are centipede-like aliens who go on colonizing the universe by searching for live planets with sentient species. Once they find one, they start colonizing the planet by sticking themselves into the sentient species' brain and thereby become the sentient species, like a parasite to a host and they start doing this to the whole population. What if they think they are doing the sentient species a favor by getting into their heads to make a much more efficient society? solving every problems (due to their adnvanced technology) that the sentient species were facing before the alien parasites controlled their minds? Yet these alien parasites didnt even have a clue of what they've done -which was technically stealing the host's every aspect of its life and take it as their own. Another possibility would be: what if they are technologically advanced alien beings that have autistic-like attrubutes which are coldly analytical and rarely curious unless they are presented with a complex enough problems, but they have few emotions that are similar to humans and no empathy at all? Or what about if they are aliens who go on searching planets simply to harvest intelligence like the movie "Skyline"? There are a lot of more probably dreadful things that can happen once we come into contact with these aliens. Most of it would be totally incomprehensible to us and it would be less probable that they would have human-like attributes. Possible yes, but highly improbable. Thats just my opinion, I may be wrong.

Edited by Zeitgeist123, 13 July 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[Raklian]

I have always wished and hoped that we are the first and only sentient species in the universe. I can imagine if there are intelligent aliens who are more technologically advanced than us and come to earth one day, there is a high probability that they'll be dominating and predatory rather than benevolent and we will surely lose.

Why do you think that there is a high probability that they will be dominating and predatory? Although it's certainly one reason that they might be likely to seek us out, it is only one of many reasons. Personally I find it difficult to believe that any species that has made it across the void of space to get to us would ever have any ill intentions, there's so much room out there what reason could they possibly have for wanting to wipe us out? Of course these are, by their very definition, alien species so their motives and reasons for doing anything may be incomprehensible to us, but I would say the probability of meeting an aggressive alien species is low and not high...

Well, my guess would be that there is a very little chance that an alien from a different star would think and feel the way we do. There are highe chances that they would do things that would totally annihilate us and they would'nt even have a clue that we didn't like it. They may have a totally advanced technology but that doesn't mean that they have an adnvanced knowledge of our "human" psychology. I mean, what if they are centipede-like aliens who go on colonizing the universe by searching for live planets with sentient species. Once they find one, they start colonizing the planet by sticking themselves into the sentient species' brain and thereby become the sentient species, like a parasite to a host and they start doing this to the whole population. What if they think they are doing the sentient species a favor by getting into their heads to make a much more efficient society? solving every problems (due to their adnvanced technology) that the sentient species were facing before the alien parasites controlled their minds? Yet these alien parasites didnt even have a clue of what they've done -which was technically stealing the host's every aspect of its life and take it as their own. Another possibility would be: what if they are technologically advanced alien beings that have autistic-like attrubutes which are coldly analytical and rarely curious unless they are presented with a complex enough problems, but they have few emotions that are similar to humans and no empathy at all? Or what about if they are aliens who go on searching planets simply to harvest intelligence like the movie "Skyline"? There are a lot of more probably dreadful things that can happen once we come into contact with these aliens. Most of it would be totally incomprehensible to us and it would be less probable that they would have human-like attributes. Possible yes, but highly improbable. Thats just my opinion, I may be wrong.

Lots of questions.

Let me ask one myself: What if the alien beings are extremely sexually frustrated and have no orientation bias, hmm? And they get in here?

It's fun to use our imaginations because this is not going to happen for a very long time. We have a better chance of being destroyed by our own star becoming a red giant than celestical beings who are phallic-obsessive and travel such unimagible distances to entertain a fetish because they noticed we humans have orificies that are... quite interesting?

[Lily]

We imagine aliens, even or foremost, the highly advanced ones to be quite humanishly (forigve that word ). It's really difficult to imagine completely different lifeforms that are as advanced as we are, or more, that don't look even remotely human (most aliens in scifi do look humanoid - in some way, or like animals we know) and have a completely different behaviour and psychology. I think that's where a lot of fear stems from. We just can't say how they could be like, what they would value, etc. It's all a big unknown. Really fascinating, exciting and interesting, but also quite scary.