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Frustrated Genius Babies


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#1
Shimmy

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Once we have the ability to insert knowledge directly into the brain, schools and the entire education system will no longer have a purpose in the world. We will be able to give newborn babies all the knowledge and up to date understanding of the universe that they could possible learn right from birth. If we decided to leave these babies to grow and age normally I imagine this would cause a lot of problems. In their minds they would understand so much yet their bodies would not be able to do what they wanted them to do. Unable to walk or talk yet and with terrible hand eye co-ordination and bladder control, all they would be able to do is lie on their backs contemplating their existence. I believe the speed at which people perceive time to be passing is proportional to the total time that person has lived, hence why time appears to pass quicker as you get older (this can be thought of as each new experience fills up a proportion of your total memories, the more memories you have the smaller the proportion a new one fills hence the less "time" that particular event takes in your mind). Babies today can't form memories and comprehend this properly yet and therefore aren't as aware of this apparent slower passing of time. However when you implant all the knowledge of the world into a newborn he will understand just how slowly time is really passing (knowledge is stored differently from memories in this sense as the knowledge won't relate to a particular memory of learning, it will just seem like it has always been there). So if we assume what would seem like a day passing in a 25 year old's mind would seem like many months in the mind of a baby, we can start to imagine just how frustrated these babies would be. This would lead to massive depression and suicidal tendencies in an entire generation of the very young. Suicide would usually be considered very hard for a baby because as mentioned before they have terrible hand eye co-ordination, but we also have to remember they are incredibly intelligent and will have all the combined knowledge of most of human history. I think it's safe to assume they would find a way. This scenario admittedly relies on brain implants being commonplace before fully immersive virtual reality and enhanced brain to body synchronising technology, and also relies on all the wild speculation and dubious science in the above paragraph being true. But nonetheless it raises important and urgent questions about what a baby with all the knowledge imaginable would really think of itself.

#2
Azureous

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Reminds me of a cartoon where we created a robot only to have it try to kill itself. If you really consider why we choose life over death, it really comes down to instincts. An intelligent person who isn't controlled by instinct might be able to make the decision. This instinct is of perseverance-that which strives to exists has more likelihood of being here right now.

Surely if the sum of your gains by the time you die is not worthwhile then why bother at all...

Maybe we should look at education/intelligence levels vs depression/suicide rates.
http://en.wikipedia....py_Planet_Index
If we looks at the happy planet index (lol) the happiest populations in the world is not the most developed and educated countries at all. In fact developed countries reside some what in the middle, we know we're better off than starving nations, but we're also worried about all the bad things happening around the world.
Now, I know i'm making a big leap here from those statistics but i don't believe it is intelligence alone that is related to unhappiness. It is more likely the knowledge of certain things and the responsibilities.

The things that make us happy are instinctive aren't they? raise a family, obtain wealth(all kinds be it money or status), socialize, approval, etc.. Aren't they're all there to better our chances of survival?

So if we put all the knowledge in the world into a baby, but allow he/she to indulge in his/her instincts without concern, without responsibility, then... well he/she could probably grow up to be an evil genius? Or on the other hand the baby could grow beyond unhappiness, realizing that pain is just a feeling and that in order to survive, he/she'd need the help of all of humanity. If you get to choose what to feel, why feel pain when it is unnecessary (at least sometimes). Why not just choose to be happy while you work to survive? http://www.futuretim...tyle_emoticons/animate/turned.gif
Just some of the reasons why a genius baby wouldn't commit suicide. http://www.futuretim...tyle_emoticons/animate/thumbsup.gif

#3
jjf3

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The things that make us happy are instinctive aren't they?


This is a very interesting idea and concept but I do not think it will ever happen quite that way. I think that as Mind Uploading technologies become mainstream a future society would have to, have to have some type of control over the information. Today, the technologists, hackers, and futurists all want free information accessible to anybody.

But, ever hear of information overload??? That's what you are essentially describing in future babies and that is what is happening on the internet right now. Wikileaks and the cyberwar have shown us what not protecting information from certain members of society can do. It can be very dangerous and will continue to be dangerous in the next couple of years.

That is why a future society will have a security system and law system in place to prevent people from uploading certain information into their minds. It may be even in the form of our primitive data plans we have today on our cell phones.

Now, I do not want to get into a philosophical debate with anybody, but all emotions are essentially created by the brain and chemical reactions. With advancements in gene manipulation it will be easy to make people happy. That's why in certain futuristic scenarios you see societies without emotions. They learned to suppress them (Vulcans) or figure out a technology to get rid of them (Equilibrium-film)

I think this scenario will work differently in a type of brain network. The Facebook of the future, if you will. Where all thoughts, memories, relationships, knowledge can be instantly thought shared. Facebook or a different company will have to figure out a way to install neuro firewalls inside people's brains in order to prevent others unnecessary access. They will also have to figure out a way to store all these thought sharing capabilities. But that's for another generation to figure out http://www.futuretim...tyle_emoticons/animate/thumbup.gif
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#4
Azureous

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But, ever hear of information overload??? That's what you are essentially describing in future babies and that is what is happening on the internet right now. Wikileaks and the cyberwar have shown us what not protecting information from certain members of society can do. It can be very dangerous and will continue to be dangerous in the next couple of years.

"You can't handle the truth!" cliche but yes, i agree with that, truth hurts, not everyone wants to know.
That's the problem with the internet, there's too much information, so much that it has reverted back to data form and it's users must learn to convert it back into information. That's why there's people trying to make 'smart' search engines.

Now, I do not want to get into a philosophical debate with anybody, but all emotions are essentially created by the brain and chemical reactions. With advancements in gene manipulation it will be easy to make people happy. That's why in certain futuristic scenarios you see societies without emotions. They learned to suppress them (Vulcans) or figure out a technology to get rid of them (Equilibrium-film)

Yep, that's also something people tend to forget when trying to predict the future. People could be modified enjoy working(anything really), doing something productive for the human race or helping each other. Problem then is... what are we really? Is it okay to be viewing people in this way, as if they're tools for the benefit of humanity?
The electronic version of this is called the brain pacemaker, pressing a button makes you feel happy. Interestingly, it has been reported that it's use isn't addictive.
see here: http://en.wikipedia....Brain_pacemaker

Though we're getting off topic here, i'm not sure how the admins feel about this.

#5
Caiman

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Once we have the ability to insert knowledge directly into the brain, schools and the entire education system will no longer have a purpose in the world.

This makes for quite an interesting topic in itself, and is worth some debate as an aside to the existential questioning of hyper-intelligent newborns contemplating suicide! I certainly agree that if we achieve the capability to ‘download’ knowledge and abilities Direct2Mind as it were, not only will the entire education system be shook up but the capabilities of the human race as a whole would surely explode in potential. I’m sure though, such a technology would actually meet massive resistance both culturally and politically given its apparent world changing nature.

But nonetheless it raises important and urgent questions about what a baby with all the knowledge imaginable would really think of itself.

Important and Urgent? http://www.futuretim...tyle_emoticons/animate/turned.gif To be honest, I don’t really foresee a time where a baby is born and instantly injected with the sum of human knowledge. What would be the point? You’ve outlined legitimate reasons in your post as to why it would be entirely impractical. Unless you plonk them straight into a virtual world where they can interact with others off the bat, though that’d be bizarre for both parties I am sure given their lack of personal history and human interaction. Perhaps we should look to Stewie’s dilemmas in family guy to understand how an intelligent baby would cope with the world around him? :p

Though we're getting off topic here, i'm not sure how the admins feel about this.

Don’t worry too much about it, I feel it is the nature of the topic of this website that discussions will wander into other territories, we can always steer things back to the main topic if necessary, but sometimes interesting discussions emerge as an aside to the topic and we’re not going to stifle that :)
~Jon

#6
Azureous

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not only will the entire education system be shook up but the capabilities of the human race as a whole would surely explode in potential.

http://www.khanacademy.org/
Check out khanacademy, it's not direct2mind download but i think they have a better education system set up than what we have now. I hope schools get rid of once off tests and allow students to take tests over and over again without any record of it, but the highest mark achieved. Why would they teach you level 2 maths when you still don't get level 1 maths, the accumulated lack of knowledge only adds further to the confusion.

Important and Urgent? To be honest, I don’t really foresee a time where a baby is born and instantly injected with the sum of human knowledge.

haha neither do I, but it did raise some interesting questions.

Don’t worry too much about it, I feel it is the nature of the topic of this website that discussions will wander into other territories, we can always steer things back to the main topic if necessary, but sometimes interesting discussions emerge as an aside to the topic and we’re not going to stifle that

Yeah i figured as much, but some sites are really strict on that and I appreciate your understanding and leniency. cheers!




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