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#41
KingstonDon

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Posted Image


*LOL* Wj, you are being naughty :p

Although I would be lying if I said I didn't think the same thing...

#42
Caiman

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Clearly it's time we gave some massive tax cuts to the rich. Oh, and let's cancel everybody's healthcare too. We don't want to become a socialist nation, do we, because that would mean higher levels of poverty! Oh wait...

It’s their own fault they are poor! Isn’t that the usual stance? It’s a terrible state of affairs. We have similar problems with the poverty level in our own country. Our nations have got a long way to go to become the bastions of light we think we are.
~Jon

#43
truthiness

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But, but... the rich are the "job creators"... we don't call them "rich" anymore... that's not PC... makes them sound like they have an excess of money, as opposed to the rest of us, and that makes them uncomfortable... don't want to make them uncomfortable, do we? They're very busy every day creating jobs *in the third world. The least we can do for them in return is make sure they are comfortable.

So, "Clearly it's time we gave some massive tax cuts to the job creators."

Clearly.
  • wjfox likes this
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will be as one

#44
jjf3

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Both the private sector and our amazing government have failed in creating jobs. When will you people realize its not one party's fault but the entire system at large!!!!
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#45
Caiman

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Both the private sector and our amazing government have failed in creating jobs. When will you people realize its not one party's fault but the entire system at large!!!!

Not sure who this is aimed at given none of us specifically called a political party out on this problem? Or do you equate ‘Rich’ = ‘Republican’ ?
~Jon

#46
jjf3

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No, but I know Will is a liberal and I realize who he aimed that statement at. I know where dems and repub lie on certain ideologies. They are both at fault.
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#47
mic of orion

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Clearly it's time we gave some massive tax cuts to the rich. Oh, and let's cancel everybody's healthcare too. We don't want to become a socialist nation, do we, because that would mean higher levels of poverty! Oh wait...

It’s their own fault they are poor! Isn’t that the usual stance? It’s a terrible state of affairs. We have similar problems with the poverty level in our own country. Our nations have got a long way to go to become the bastions of light we think we are.


US has no real social net, UK does, most o Europe does (some ee countries are piss poor so I have no idea what kind of social net they've got if any).

UK's poverty rate is still rather high at 12% of population, US data is only estimated by CIA (websites) at 15.1%, But I have little faith in accuracy of CIA data,

Actual data might be much higher, I'd be surprised if it is less than 20% of US population. Poverty in US is visible everywhere you go, and to say its only 15% is a major understatement,

65 million Americans would be more accurate figure.
It's dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

#48
Unrequited Lust

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If we're going to run a massive stimulus to "create jobs" we need to run the stimulus into something that actually promises to create economic growth. Traditionally the private sector has done this because entrepreneurs are a million times smarter than politicians. My idea would be nuclear power. Spend billions and billions of dollars creating nuclear plants all over the country. This would boost the economy considerably because we'd have a lot power energy and it'd be cheaper too. I remember Obama wanting to do this but I haven't heard anything since.

#49
Flatfingers

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Sigh. When the folks who believe that government bureaucrats want to help individual human beings and know better than anyone how to do it encounter those who believe that individuals have a responsibility to try to improve their own lives and should be free to work with other like-minded individuals to accomplish that, there's just not much room for friendly discussion. Particularly when the conversation starts with insults and others think it's fun to join in. Is this what newcomers to this forum should expect? Is that really what the folks running this forum want?

#50
Chronomaster

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individuals have a responsibility to try to improve their own lives

It'd be nice if the playing field was level enough for that to really happen, unfortunately for many of those in the poverty trap, getting out of it can be nigh on impossible- and it's not necessarily for a lack of hard work and ambition.

As for who the government wants to help, given the tax breaks and loopholes those with money and power are privvy to whilst tens of millions of people in our first world nations languish in poverty, I would hardly suggest anyone believes they are out to help the little guy or know how to go about doing it.
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Counting down...

#51
Prolite

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A massive tax cut of federal and state income taxes should be given to the poor in the US so they can brought into the middle class. Schools should be improved. To not have computers and internet in every room of every school throughout this nation is like sending a soldier into battle without a gun and a bullet-proof vest. This is the 21st century for christ sake.

Tax cuts obviously don't trickle down wealth. Raise corporate tax rate to 45% for large-sized businesses. Leave medium and small alone. Make 48% of those companies who don't pay ANY taxes whatsoever pay taxes. Get rid of special deals and make everyone in their own tax bracket pay the same amount in taxes as everyone else in the same tax bracket. The fact that they're not, is socialism, and anti-capitalistic behavior. Almost all Republicans in Congress are not business people. Their views align to communist dictators and socialists. The evidence for this in-lies in their legislation for the current Republican Congress and it is overwhelming. They're actually better at destroying our way of life and life itself (tea party debate w/ Ron Paul in letting a 30 yr old DIE because he has no insurance) than anything else.
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I'm a business man, that's all you need to know about me.

#52
mic of orion

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Sigh. When the folks who believe that government bureaucrats want to help individual human beings and know better than anyone how to do it encounter those who believe that individuals have a responsibility to try to improve their own lives and should be free to work with other like-minded individuals to accomplish that, there's just not much room for friendly discussion.

Particularly when the conversation starts with insults and others think it's fun to join in.

Is this what newcomers to this forum should expect?

Is that really what the folks running this forum want?


1st,

WE are the government, us everyone who voted and who has a right to vote is a government, citizenry is the government, we elect politicians who represent our interests and who through dialogue and compromise reach agreement on set of polices we the people have voted. Us all, we the people are the government you choose to hate so much.

2nd,

WE in Europe work just as hard as you in America, but we choose to have welfare state, we chose to have free health care, free eduction, access to community services that all of us pay for through our taxes.

3rd

Now I know this might be very strange to you, but we choose to have free education, free health-care and free benefit when we retire and when we are out of work, it is what majority of populace in western world wanted, and have voted for. The fact that you think everything is a big conspiracy is just sick and stupid.

As to you having your say on this forum, no one is stooping you having your say, the fact that you believe in
Your set of ideals doesn't mean we have to accept them, and as to others ridiculing your viewpoints, if you had smart things to say and wasn't some corporate sponsored gibberish spewed by likes of fox and GOP, you’d find that most here are pleasant and nice.
  • wjfox likes this
It's dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

#53
jjf3

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I love how the Europeans think that their society is doing oh so great when in reality it is not! It is just as bad as ours or maybe worse! How many of your countries are going bankrupt? and these aren't tiny states, as in America, these are whole countries!!!! giving out free programs isn't really going to stimulate anybody's economy. They still have to pay for the things, somehow, and that's a burden on the taxpayers hence why they are poor!!!!
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#54
Flatfingers

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Chronomaster, you're not wrong. Freedom to succeed is a necessary condition, but not a sufficient one.

People today tend to forget (if indeed their history books ever told them) that there used to be private institutions with many members whose aim was to help those who needed it -- Elks, Lions, Rotary, etc. But they got crowded out by government welfare programs, especially between the New Deal and the Great Society, leaving people today believing that only government can possibly be an effective source of compassion.

Whether anyone will ever return to that model is of course an open question.

And mic, I'm sorry you've chosen to completely miss the point of my comments, not to mention mischaracterize what I think pretty spectacularly.

FWIW, I spent many years online doing pretty much what you've done here -- assuming that only my view of the world could possibly be right, trying with invective and references and any rhetorical gimmick I could think of to force other people either to acknowledge their error or quit the field.

Eventually I realized that this not only never worked, it pointlessly antagonized people who turned out to be pretty decent fellow human beings. Eventually you too may realize that yelling doesn't persuade anyone, and that in fact it's not necessary to try, that it's OK for people to believe things that you don't believe and that exchanging differing points of view in a friendly way is a lot more fun than verbal sparring to score meaningless points.

When and if that day comes, I promise not to hold today against you. :)
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#55
jjf3

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Well put Flatfingers. I don't understand how some people can call themselves open minded when they go around spitting lies and insults at whoever doesn't believe them or their ideologies. I think that the tea party is crazy, yes, and should be their own political party so they can separate the moderates from the far right. I also think that the far left should be put into a separate party as well and they can try to spread socialism, one world governments, and one world religions around as well. These things aren't necessary bad or evil. They are two sides of the spectrum and everybody can't believe the same things. That's not human!!!! I know a lot of people who wouldn't even think about becoming friends with Gay people. They find them weird and maybe even sinful, that doesn't mean that they are. It's just a different way of thinking and I am proud to be friends with my friends who are gay! Although some members of my family wouldn't understand it.... And what Ron Paul was trying to say was, that if a person is stupid enough not to get health insurance and he finds himself in that situation, than yes he deserves to die. He's an idiot!!! It's called being responsible and taking care of yourself. I don't believe you need the government to tell you what to do. Why wouldn't you get health insurance? But most of the right believes that you have a choice if you want to buy health insurance or not and you have a choice about what should be covered on your plan. Not some crappy little government plan. Your plan! And I agree with having choices in life!
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#56
mic of orion

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@ Flatfingers I couldn't give a toss what you think and I am not yelling, i am just pointing out that you try to sell your bull and than expect me to buy it. As to me ever agreeing with you on Fox run Corporate only rich to do state with welfare for corporations, dream on! You'd find that even in America 72% of Americans wouldn't agree with that bull, pity most don't bother to vote.
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It's dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

#57
mic of orion

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I love how the Europeans think that their society is doing oh so great when in reality it is not! It is just as bad as ours or maybe worse! How many of your countries are going bankrupt? and these aren't tiny states, as in America, these are whole countries!!!!

giving out free programs isn't really going to stimulate anybody's economy. They still have to pay for the things, somehow, and that's a burden on the taxpayers hence why they are poor!!!!


you got no clue about Europe and how things work here, this is pretty much clear!


Also to point out few things, America is about to go broke, it almost did and it is a biggest economy on planet!

Another thing, Greece, Ireland, Portugal and to a less extent Italy and Spain spent beyond their means, and than they joined the richest nations on this planet in to a common currency, Greece at one point liked to compare itself to Germany, as if they are as productive and as rich as Germans, reality was quite the opposite.

Germany unlike Greece is a rich country with a stable market conditions and financial instruments, France too, forming monetary union with likes Greece and Portugal, Spain and Italy was really bad idea, neither of these nations could keep up stringent monetary criteria imposed by the Monterey union and have subsequently faced terrible economic hardship and bankruptcy.

Italy and Spain have mange to avert disaster with swift actions and budgetary cuts, but Greece and Portugal have long road ahead of them, Portugal might get out of this crisis with few bruises and diminished economic capacity, Greece on the other hand wont be able to avert disaster, they simply have no money and there's less and less willingness with in the Eu to help Greece out.
It's dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

#58
jjf3

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Um No? I'm just going by what history has stated Hitler- 12 years Stalin- 30 years EU- not even ten years. (and I think you don't understand what an impact Greece's bankruptcy could have on the entire EU). All of Europe's big government ideas have failed or are failing. America has been around for 235 years and I think the Europeans may be just a little bit jealous, probably ever since we left them. it's clear that Obama's strategies aren't working and that's why the Republicans want so desperately another leader. I want another leader too!!! And I almost voted for Obama, because I believed his lies.
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#59
Roh234

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I love how the Europeans think that their society is doing oh so great when in reality it is not! It is just as bad as ours or maybe worse! How many of your countries are going bankrupt? and these aren't tiny states, as in America, these are whole countries!!!!

giving out free programs isn't really going to stimulate anybody's economy. They still have to pay for the things, somehow, and that's a burden on the taxpayers hence why they are poor!!!!


you got no clue about Europe and how things work here, this is pretty much clear!


Also to point out few things, America is about to go broke, it almost did and it is a biggest economy on planet!

Another thing, Greece, Ireland, Portugal and to a less extent Italy and Spain spent beyond their means, and than they joined the richest nations on this planet in to a common currency, Greece at one point liked to compare itself to Germany, as if they are as productive and as rich as Germans, reality was quite the opposite.

Germany unlike Greece is a rich country with a stable market conditions and financial instruments, France too, forming monetary union with likes Greece and Portugal, Spain and Italy was really bad idea, neither of these nations could keep up stringent monetary criteria imposed by the Monterey union and have subsequently faced terrible economic hardship and bankruptcy.

Italy and Spain have mange to avert disaster with swift actions and budgetary cuts, but Greece and Portugal have long road ahead of them, Portugal might get out of this crisis with few bruises and diminished economic capacity, Greece on the other hand wont be able to avert disaster, they simply have no money and there's less and less willingness with in the Eu to help Greece out.



Facts don't lie.

http://en.wikipedia....y_external_debt
http://en.wikipedia....te_(latest_year)

Accumulated debt and killed economic growth 'for the people'. Wise

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#60
mic of orion

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Look at US economy, you guys are bankrupt, and you pointing fingers at EU, lol Yeah fine example lets check Greece and Portugal, only countries that could go belly up, America has almost bankrupted, the fact is confidence in US dollar as a reserve currency has demolished completely.

And you ppl wont have any growth this year ,from looks of things, and unemployment just went up to 9.6%. Even Obama is saying that it would be a miracle if America can reduce its unemployment.


Um No? I'm just going by what history has stated

Hitler- 12 years
Stalin- 30 years
EU- not even ten years.

(and I think you don't understand what an impact Greece's bankruptcy could have on the entire EU).

All of Europe's big government ideas have failed or are failing. America has been around for 235 years and I think the Europeans may be just a little bit jealous, probably ever since we left them. it's clear that Obama's strategies aren't working and that's why the Republicans want so desperately another leader. I want another leader too!!! And I almost voted for Obama, because I believed his lies.


U are full of crap,

First of its clearly pointless talking to you since you post utter teabagger nonsense, I seriously can't even comprehend how can anyone think like you.

As to you voting for Obama almost, Its so not true, You'd never vote for a black guy, especially a democrat, this is not like even funny how obvious it is. You have taabagger written across your forehead you aren't even ashamed of it.

And to continue talking to you about EU and current world economic crisis that was created by the Republican party and Regonomic doctrine you and your pal preach on this forum is waste of my and any sane person's time.

The day i take your viewpoint is the day this universe ceases to exist, hope that makes is clear.
It's dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.





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