5 replies to this topic

[GNR Rvolution]

There is a lot of talk about how computers will reach a point where they become self-aware, be able to replicate and improve themselves, and become more powerful than the human race in terms of knowledge, computational ability and ability to exist in conditions that humans cannot tolerate. Most scenarios I read about (mostly influenced by Hollywood) indicates that this will end badly for humanity, But is it entirely possible that computers, and more specifically AI, can be the saviour of mankind? Without them I see us hurtling towards an abyss of climate catastrophe, resource wars and ultimately the fail of civilisation. But with them comes the ability to expand our knowledge at an exponential rate, find answers for problems that we cannot solve ourselves and, possibly most importantly, they are able to operate outside of the Earth environment, providing us with that vital gateway to the rest of the solar system and beyond.

Or will this all end in BSG fashion with our computer overlords turning on us, or determining using their own logical form of intelligence that we are either not worthy of their attention or worse, that we are a plague that needs to be wiped out?

[Craven]

Thing is, that default state of machine is "idle". So even supercomputer would have to be programmed to help humans (or to wipe them out).

[Dead Redshirt]

Heh, I just read an interesting novel by Robert J. Sawyer called WWW: Watch. Basically the concept behind it is that a blind girl receives sight through an implant. This implant has a side of effect of being able to see the digital datastreams of the web. She encounters a AI that becomes self-aware that befriends her and then she teaches it how to help humanity and do some good.

[Prolite]

I think the nature of this question is incorrect in it's approach. Computers are becoming part of us; our culture, our business, policies, every day living, etc... A self-aware computer will likely experience the world much like we do or any other primate. I think this is so because the essence of what self-awareness means, and I believe it means life itself. What is it like to be in the mind of a dolphin or an ape, or maybe even elephant? I believe they are life forms that are self-aware. A computer that is self-aware is a LIFE FORM. It's a new species. I really don't think a computer can become self-aware without this approach. And I also don't think a computer can become self-aware without the "brain" of the computer being a quantum computer. The human mind is a biological mechanical quantum computer. Consciousness has to do with the fact that we can think, feel, and experience many different states all at the same time. We can be both happy, pissed off, and jealous ALL at the same time all while thinking about what happened to us yesterday and recalling a dream from a few weeks prior.

And Ray Kurzweil is underestimating the power of the human mind. It is MUCH MUCH faster than he says it is. I believe the human brain is faster than every super-computer in the world combined 1 million times over. Simple fact: today's super-computers are not quantum computers.

[Keitaro2011]

Oh, absolutely! If humans were to upload their minds to computers, it would eliminate the need for resources like food and water. It would drastically increase the amount of habitable space available, and it would enable people to live in virtual environments of their choice.

[GNR Rvolution]

I think the nature of this question is incorrect in it's approach. Computers are becoming part of us; our culture, our business, policies, every day living, etc... A self-aware computer will likely experience the world much like we do or any other primate. I think this is so because the essence of what self-awareness means, and I believe it means life itself. What is it like to be in the mind of a dolphin or an ape, or maybe even elephant? I believe they are life forms that are self-aware. A computer that is self-aware is a LIFE FORM. It's a new species. I really don't think a computer can become self-aware without this approach. And I also don't think a computer can become self-aware without the "brain" of the computer being a quantum computer. The human mind is a biological mechanical quantum computer. Consciousness has to do with the fact that we can think, feel, and experience many different states all at the same time. We can be both happy, pissed off, and jealous ALL at the same time all while thinking about what happened to us yesterday and recalling a dream from a few weeks prior.

And Ray Kurzweil is underestimating the power of the human mind. It is MUCH MUCH faster than he says it is. I believe the human brain is faster than every super-computer in the world combined 1 million times over. Simple fact: today's super-computers are not quantum computers.

Self-awareness is a tricky one to define, by my definition self awareness is simply the concept that the individual is aware of it's own existence in relation to those around it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is alive in the traditional sense. Is a tree self-aware, does it know of it's existence and of those things around it?

Computers today are simply tools to aid us in what we do, they are not part of us yet. Yes, their existence may influence our way of existence, but only in the same way say the automobile has done. Obvously moving forward this linear distinction between man and machine may begin to blur, but until self-awareness occurs they would still simply be extensions of ourself and not truly part of us. If and when self-awareness were to blossom (and how that would happen is another discussion) then it could be argued that the integration between man and machine still wouldn't have begun, that they are still individuals living in what I might call a positive parasitic state.

I would disagree that the mind involves anything quantum, it is at most an atomic level, and although I believe that Ray Kurzweil is underestimating the effort involved to recreate the complexity of the human brain, computers are certainly faster than the human brain, this is already shown by things as simple as calculators. However what I believe you are driving at is the massive parallelism that exists within the human mind, The current computer on your desk is very primitive compared to that, with essentially a single processor allowing a single thing to happen at once (ok, so maybe you have multiple processors, but not many), it just does it very quickly to simulate a multi-tasking environment. However, what if there is (and I believe that there will be) an upsurge in parallel computing, particularly across the cloud, allowing ten, a hundred, a thousand computers to essentially act as one. Of course, massive parallelism blurs my distinction of self-awareness, as it would 'exist' in a thousand different places at once, and would need to be able to process the surroundings of every single location to truly be classified as self-aware.

Oh, absolutely! If humans were to upload their minds to computers, it would eliminate the need for resources like food and water. It would drastically increase the amount of habitable space available, and it would enable people to live in virtual environments of their choice.

Question is are you referring to a move or copy operation? If you simply copying your brain down to the smallest element onto a digital device, then is that really you, a copy, or something else? Is it even possible (again another thread). And if this is the case then you are still around to require resources to continue to exist. And if you move your brain structure (not even sure how that is possible) then again is that still you or just some simulacrum, a digital ghost of yourself? I used to think that upploding to the virtual world was a path to immortality, now I'm not so sure...