627 replies to this topic

[wjfox]

This will be a dedicated thread for news and discussions about the current economic crisis.

I'll start with this video, which was broadcast on BBC news this morning. A refreshingly honest interview...

[Craven]

Where does his confidence in treasury bonds come from? I mean when all goes to hell, who's to tell they'll be any good?

[Logically Irrational]

http://www.advisoron...-high-likelihoo

[Prolite]

This will be a dedicated thread for news and discussions about the current economic crisis.

I'll start with this video, which was broadcast on BBC news this morning. A refreshingly honest interview...

This guy's a neophyte. The economy in the United States is SLOWLY recovering and will continue to do so as Europe goes through what the US went through almost 3 years ago. And China will hedge along based on the United States current economic outlook. As the US economy gets better, it is my belief that China's will get worse because of the lack of anti-dumping laws here in the USA and the USA's ability to provide local competitive products/services in a good economy. Here's another thing; as Europe's economy goes into the dumpster, European countries have been investing into the safest currency in the world: the US dollar. That's going to help stabilize the US dollar and help keep inflation down and make gasoline a bit cheaper because of better currency conversion. The United States will bring the global economic recession into a global economic healthy economy.

[Nick1984]

Just read your comment on China... WHAT THE HELL!

[Logically Irrational]

Here's something interesting on China:
http://english.cri.c...2702s660208.htm

[Unrequited Lust]

This will be a dedicated thread for news and discussions about the current economic crisis.

I'll start with this video, which was broadcast on BBC news this morning. A refreshingly honest interview...

This guy's a neophyte. The economy in the United States is SLOWLY recovering and will continue to do so as Europe goes through what the US went through almost 3 years ago. And China will hedge along based on the United States current economic outlook. As the US economy gets better, it is my belief that China's will get worse because of the lack of anti-dumping laws here in the USA and the USA's ability to provide local competitive products/services in a good economy. Here's another thing; as Europe's economy goes into the dumpster, European countries have been investing into the safest currency in the world: the US dollar. That's going to help stabilize the US dollar and help keep inflation down and make gasoline a bit cheaper because of better currency conversion. The United States will bring the global economic recession into a global economic healthy economy.

Keynesian bubbles don't count as wealth. It will pop, as all bubbles in the past have done.

[wjfox]

Those Bush tax cuts were a great idea, weren't they?

[Prolite]

Those Bush tax cuts were a great idea, weren't they?

The bush tax cuts cost 4 trillion over 10 years. 3 out of that 4 is tax cuts for the middle class. 1 trillion goes to the rich. Only the 1 trillion should be rescinded.

[Prolite]

Keynesian bubbles don't count as wealth. It will pop, as all bubbles in the past have done.

This bad economy as everyone knows, was so obviously the result of a systemic failure in the banking industry from mortgage-backed securities rated as AAA when they were really equal to toilet water. Which therefore means this isn't a regular recession. This is called The Great Explosion where personal wealth goes bye-bye because there's a disease in the system; it's called lack of bank regulation. Reinstate Glass/Steagal Act in it's entirety. To insinuate that "Keynesian economics" to fix this economy such as the FED clearing out balance sheets and the Gov't preventing massive die-off of jobs through employment and stimulus - - that all of this is causing a "bubble", is just right-wing fanaticism. Let me say this more clearly: stop pretending like this is a normal recession! And by the way: tax cuts to the rich is Keynesian economics because it's government spending. Any time the Gov't takes in less money, it's Government spending. Simple as that.

If you really wanted to be like Ron Paul and pretend like we don't live in a mixed economy even though we really do, than you should be mongering "let the economy fix itself."

[wjfox]

Well worth watching if you want to know how the money system works -

[Prolite]

US weekly jobless claims were lower than expected this week. The US economy is showing signs of improvement. Next year, 2012, will be the year that the US economy starts to recover, in my opinion. As the US economy recovers, it will pull up Europe's economy. China will suffer when American manufacturing jobs begin to recover in the US.

The guy in that video is just a nutcase. He's doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Unrequited Lust]

Keynesian bubbles don't count as wealth. It will pop, as all bubbles in the past have done.

This bad economy as everyone knows, was so obviously the result of a systemic failure in the banking industry from mortgage-backed securities rated as AAA when they were really equal to toilet water. Which therefore means this isn't a regular recession. This is called The Great Explosion where personal wealth goes bye-bye because there's a disease in the system; it's called lack of bank regulation. Reinstate Glass/Steagal Act in it's entirety. To insinuate that "Keynesian economics" to fix this economy such as the FED clearing out balance sheets and the Gov't preventing massive die-off of jobs through employment and stimulus - - that all of this is causing a "bubble", is just right-wing fanaticism. Let me say this more clearly: stop pretending like this is a normal recession! And by the way: tax cuts to the rich is Keynesian economics because it's government spending. Any time the Gov't takes in less money, it's Government spending. Simple as that.

If you really wanted to be like Ron Paul and pretend like we don't live in a mixed economy even though we really do, than you should be mongering "let the economy fix itself."

I know it's not a normal recession. It's a classic case of the Austrian business cycle.

Speaking of which, where do you think the credit for those subprime mortgage derivatives came from? Oh that's right, THE FED. The Fed said "Hey we'll just print the money" and Wall Street said "Hey we'll get rich, the economy will grow fast enough to keep up with all the bloated fiat currency" and the Democrats said "Hey poor people get to own middle class homes."

Meanwhile the Austrians (like this one and this one) said "No you dumbasses this is an Austrian business cycle in the making!" But no one paid attention because of the Fed/Wall Street/Progressive trifecta. And now that it's over, let's do the EXACT SAME SHIT that caused the recession so we can get out of the recession!

And there you go. Another bubble. And it will pop, just like the last one.

[Roh234]

Keynesian bubbles don't count as wealth. It will pop, as all bubbles in the past have done.

This bad economy as everyone knows, was so obviously the result of a systemic failure in the banking industry from mortgage-backed securities rated as AAA when they were really equal to toilet water. Which therefore means this isn't a regular recession. This is called The Great Explosion where personal wealth goes bye-bye because there's a disease in the system; it's called lack of bank regulation. Reinstate Glass/Steagal Act in it's entirety. To insinuate that "Keynesian economics" to fix this economy such as the FED clearing out balance sheets and the Gov't preventing massive die-off of jobs through employment and stimulus - - that all of this is causing a "bubble", is just right-wing fanaticism. Let me say this more clearly: stop pretending like this is a normal recession! And by the way: tax cuts to the rich is Keynesian economics because it's government spending. Any time the Gov't takes in less money, it's Government spending. Simple as that.

If you really wanted to be like Ron Paul and pretend like we don't live in a mixed economy even though we really do, than you should be mongering "let the economy fix itself."

I know it's not a normal recession. It's a classic case of the Austrian business cycle.

Speaking of which, where do you think the credit for those subprime mortgage derivatives came from? Oh that's right, THE FED. The Fed said "Hey we'll just print the money" and Wall Street said "Hey we'll get rich, the economy will grow fast enough to keep up with all the bloated fiat currency" and the Democrats said "Hey poor people get to own middle class homes."

Meanwhile the Austrians (like this one and this one) said "No you dumbasses this is an Austrian business cycle in the making!" But no one paid attention because of the Fed/Wall Street/Progressive trifecta. And now that it's over, let's do the EXACT SAME SHIT that caused the recession so we can get out of the recession!

And there you go. Another bubble. And it will pop, just like the last one.

Don't forget Democrats sueing banks for not giving mortgages to the poor.

[Unrequited Lust]

Keynesian bubbles don't count as wealth. It will pop, as all bubbles in the past have done.

This bad economy as everyone knows, was so obviously the result of a systemic failure in the banking industry from mortgage-backed securities rated as AAA when they were really equal to toilet water. Which therefore means this isn't a regular recession. This is called The Great Explosion where personal wealth goes bye-bye because there's a disease in the system; it's called lack of bank regulation. Reinstate Glass/Steagal Act in it's entirety. To insinuate that "Keynesian economics" to fix this economy such as the FED clearing out balance sheets and the Gov't preventing massive die-off of jobs through employment and stimulus - - that all of this is causing a "bubble", is just right-wing fanaticism. Let me say this more clearly: stop pretending like this is a normal recession! And by the way: tax cuts to the rich is Keynesian economics because it's government spending. Any time the Gov't takes in less money, it's Government spending. Simple as that.

If you really wanted to be like Ron Paul and pretend like we don't live in a mixed economy even though we really do, than you should be mongering "let the economy fix itself."

I know it's not a normal recession. It's a classic case of the Austrian business cycle.

Speaking of which, where do you think the credit for those subprime mortgage derivatives came from? Oh that's right, THE FED. The Fed said "Hey we'll just print the money" and Wall Street said "Hey we'll get rich, the economy will grow fast enough to keep up with all the bloated fiat currency" and the Democrats said "Hey poor people get to own middle class homes."

Meanwhile the Austrians (like this one and this one) said "No you dumbasses this is an Austrian business cycle in the making!" But no one paid attention because of the Fed/Wall Street/Progressive trifecta. And now that it's over, let's do the EXACT SAME SHIT that caused the recession so we can get out of the recession!

And there you go. Another bubble. And it will pop, just like the last one.

Don't forget Democrats sueing banks for not giving mortgages to the poor.

[Prolite]

I know it's not a normal recession. It's a classic case of the Austrian business cycle.

Speaking of which, where do you think the credit for those subprime mortgage derivatives came from? Oh that's right, THE FED. The Fed said "Hey we'll just print the money" and Wall Street said "Hey we'll get rich, the economy will grow fast enough to keep up with all the bloated fiat currency" and the Democrats said "Hey poor people get to own middle class homes."

Meanwhile the Austrians (like this one and this one) said "No you dumbasses this is an Austrian business cycle in the making!" But no one paid attention because of the Fed/Wall Street/Progressive trifecta. And now that it's over, let's do the EXACT SAME SHIT that caused the recession so we can get out of the recession!

And there you go. Another bubble. And it will pop, just like the last one.

I was talking to the point you made about "Keynesian economics" supposedly causing The Great Recession, which is wrong unless I misunderstood what you said. And what I understood from your argument is that government intervention - - in all it's forms, is causing another bubble. THAT's what I am disagreeing with you about. Everything you said before that is in agreement with what I said, only you didn't want to outwardly admit that The Great Recession was caused by lack of regulation of banks, bank holding companies, and separation of rating agencies due to legislation from 1999. And more specifically, the deregulation process started in the early 1980's, I think 1983. Banks didn't have to keep as much money in backup (don't know the technical term) for all the loans they made. The Dodd/Frank Bill tried to somewhat remedy this, but the bill was just a waste of time.

Secondly, if there is another bubble forming, it will be because of the same lax laws that caused The Great Recession to begin with. And lastly, the housing market just sucks. I seriously doubt another bubble is forming when home interest rates keep dropping.

[Roh234]

I know it's not a normal recession. It's a classic case of the Austrian business cycle.

Speaking of which, where do you think the credit for those subprime mortgage derivatives came from? Oh that's right, THE FED. The Fed said "Hey we'll just print the money" and Wall Street said "Hey we'll get rich, the economy will grow fast enough to keep up with all the bloated fiat currency" and the Democrats said "Hey poor people get to own middle class homes."

Meanwhile the Austrians (like this one and this one) said "No you dumbasses this is an Austrian business cycle in the making!" But no one paid attention because of the Fed/Wall Street/Progressive trifecta. And now that it's over, let's do the EXACT SAME SHIT that caused the recession so we can get out of the recession!

And there you go. Another bubble. And it will pop, just like the last one.

I was talking to the point you made about "Keynesian economics" supposedly causing The Great Recession, which is wrong unless I misunderstood what you said. And what I understood from your argument is that government intervention - - in all it's forms, is causing another bubble. THAT's what I am disagreeing with you about. Everything you said before that is in agreement with what I said, only you didn't want to outwardly admit that The Great Recession was caused by lack of regulation of banks, bank holding companies, and separation of rating agencies due to legislation from 1999. And more specifically, the deregulation process started in the early 1980's, I think 1983. Banks didn't have to keep as much money in backup (don't know the technical term) for all the loans they made. The Dodd/Frank Bill tried to somewhat remedy this, but the bill was just a waste of time.

Secondly, if there is another bubble forming, it will be because of the same lax laws that caused The Great Recession to begin with. And lastly, the housing market just sucks. I seriously doubt another bubble is forming when home interest rates keep dropping.

Our housing market is currently in a double dip. Gold has deflated in price due to another bailout for the EU. Besides we never known when a bubble is forming until it popped. I forgot the author of the quote. I disagree with your anology that a government will keep the market in place.

In our current market the market can make mistakes and can get bailed out by the Feds. In a limited government, the government will not bail out the companies and will not restrict them.

[Prolite]

I disagree with your anology that a government will keep the market in place.

What do you mean by this? You didn't mention legislation addressing bank legislation: Glass/Steagal 1999. Again, what do you mean by this? Are you just referring to stimulus and/or tax cuts?

In our current market the market can make mistakes and can get bailed out by the Feds. In a limited government, the government will not bail out the companies and will not restrict them.

Yeah, that's nice, but whether a big government or a small government, The Great Recession would not have been avoided. If companies and financial institutions were not bailed out (and believe me I didn't want them to get bailed out), we would be in "The Great Depression II." But I get your point: if we let companies fail, than they won't engage in gambling any more. Well in my opinion, that's like using a nuclear bomb when you could have just signed a peace treaty. This whole thing could have been prevented by reinstating 1999 legislation and other stricter reforms that were eradicated the last 26 years or so BEFORE wham bam!

[Roh234]

I disagree with your anology that a government will keep the market in place.

What do you mean by this? You didn't mention legislation addressing bank legislation: Glass/Steagal 1999. Again, what do you mean by this? Are you just referring to stimulus and/or tax cuts?

In our current market the market can make mistakes and can get bailed out by the Feds. In a limited government, the government will not bail out the companies and will not restrict them.

Yeah, that's nice, but whether a big government or a small government, The Great Recession would not have been avoided. If companies and financial institutions were not bailed out (and believe me I didn't want them to get bailed out), we would be in "The Great Depression II." But I get your point: if we let companies fail, than they won't engage in gambling any more. Well in my opinion, that's like using a nuclear bomb when you could have just signed a peace treaty. This whole thing could have been prevented by reinstating 1999 legislation and other stricter reforms that were eradicated the last 26 years or so BEFORE wham bam!

I see where you are going.

The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms.

You are just addressing part of the problem. That repeal was not an intelligent thing to do and I will admit that. This doesn't stop future bubbles though. I don't see new life in the economy until our lessons are learned, and government stimulus is stopped. I would say the repeal was removing the safety railing and banks got pushed in my Fannie and Freddie.

[Prolite]

You are just addressing part of the problem. That repeal was not an intelligent thing to do and I will admit that. This doesn't stop future bubbles though. I don't see new life in the economy until our lessons are learned, and government stimulus is stopped. I would say the repeal was removing the safety railing and banks got pushed in my Fannie and Freddie.

Well I also mentioned legislation from 1983 wherein banks didn't have to hold as much money backed to a mortgage security that they sold. So in other words, even WITH 1999 legislation, if a Bank sells a security and keeps only a small percentage of that security, than when the security fails, the bank doesn't own enough money sort of speak, to stay in business. I don't know the exact details as a lot of this stuff is complicated and arcane.

And yes I do agree with the bubbles, but not Keynesian. The Great Recession was caused by failure of government to regulate, not that government intervened too much. I just don't agree with this whole thing "government pushing blacks to buy homes" that caused this mess. As a business man, I would have gotten in the game and bought houses and turned them over if I could. People were 'in it to win it' and it was just business as usual. Equally, did a lot of people buy homes they shouldn't have? ...hell yeah, but they're the dumb asses who made that mistake, not me lol.

I just don't see how government stimulus is causing a bubble except for one specific point: the government making it a lot easier to buy homes and letting people stay in their homes that are already "under water." But even still, I'm not totally convinced with this idea. I heard it mentioned on CNBC during "power hour" or something, but that's the only reason why I might consider this a thought. But in terms of tax cuts, infrastructure projects, small business loans,; I've never heard of THAT causing a bubble. Government stimulus causes deficits, lol that's for sure, but bubbles? na.