237 replies to this topic

[caltrek]

 

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I believe that America is a nation of immigrants. Everybody agrees that the system is broken. There has been ample opportunity for Congress to pass a bipartisan immigration bill that would strengthen our borders, improve the legal immigration system, lift millions of people out of the shadows so they are paying taxes and getting right by the law. It passed out of the Senate. I gave the House over a year to go ahead and at least give a vote to the Senate bill. They failed to do so. And I indicated to Speaker Boehner several months ago that if in fact Congress failed to act, I would use all the lawful authority that I possess to try to make the system work better. And that’s going to happen. That’s going to happen before the end of the year.

 

From:  http://www.democracy...plan_too_modest

 

Well?

 

Do you think Obama and the pro-immigrant forces will prevail?

 

Do you think he should prevail on this issue?

 

Per the Democracy Now! citation, is his plan too modest?

 

Please feel free to answer one or two of the questions with out answering all three.

 

 

 

[GenX]

My personal guess is that with the rise of the robot economy, as more and more people lose their jobs to robots, there will be a backlash against immigrants because people will be so desperate for jobs.  Desperate people do terrible things to survive, so I could see in the future mass riots and demonstrations calling for the US to completely close our borders and stopping all immigrants so that the non-robot jobs that are left go to Americans.

[PrimordialBeing]

I find it a bit amusing to see a lot of conservative Americans giving out about immigrants, when that's exactly what their country was founded on.
This, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with the majority of Americans, who I have found to be highly intelligent.

Back on topic, now.
I think there will be a fairly large demand for immigrants in the US, for the next decade and a half, at the least. A lot of immigrants are willing to do jobs that a lot of Americans would be unwilling to do, and for wages that they wouldn't accept, to top it all off. They are also willing to work longer hours. Unfortunately, a lot of them don't know much a bit worker's rights, and a lot of employers don't educate them. This can often lead to them being taken advantage of.
Because of this, it think there will be a large amount of low-skilled workers coming into the US for the time being. Of course, they will be ultimately overtaken by robots, who will be workers for free.

On the other hand, there are a large amount of very highly-skilled people coming into the US from other areas, a lot of them being developed countries, e.g. Ireland, UK, Germany, Japan etc. These people are there to fill a hole in the jobs market, and their positions will be made redundant only when the education system in America pushes these areas more (STEM), or when robots are incredibly intelligent and capable of such tasks, which be a very long time. As such, I can see these types of people moving to the US for a long time yet.

Of course, as the rest of the world develops, and the skills gaps are filled in by the American education system, the numbers of immigrants will reduce,until it is an unimportant amount. But until that stage, I see there being a large amount of immigration to the United States.

Of course, another thing you guys should remember is the allure of the United States to people from oppressed/poor regions of the world. The US is seem as a bastion of freedom and wealth, and as such, she attracts these people more so than, say, Canada.

[Raklian]

On the other hand, there are a large amount of very highly-skilled people coming into the US from other areas, a lot of them being developed countries, e.g. Ireland, UK, Germany, Japan etc. These people are there to fill a hole in the jobs market, and their positions will be made redundant only when the education system in America pushes these areas more (STEM), or when robots are incredibly intelligent and capable of such tasks, which be a very long time. As such, I can see these types of people moving to the US for a long time yet.
 

 

What a lot of Americans don't realize giving out skilled-work visas, like H1B, to foreigners is currently the best solution to the deterioration of America's public school system. Congress is extremely dysfunctional these days so we can't rely on innovative solutions/regulations from them, so H1B will have to do for now.

 

If you hear someone yelling "They're takin' ouuurr jerrrbs!" just ignore the person.

[Jakob]

If you hear someone yelling "They're takin' ouuurr jerrrbs!" just ignore the person.

Unless "they" are robots and it's the 2040s, in which case the person has a point.

[PrimordialBeing]

It is quite off-putting for me to hear all of this negativity and this extreme nationalism for a country you're not even originally from. (Native Americans are exempt, you guys have been there for thousands of years).
But, and it's a big but, few of those jobs would be filled by Americans, or at least Americans with an American education. And these people who pride themselves on the accomplishments of their country, eg rockets, and hate outsiders, don't realise it was a Nazi who developed those rockets for them.

And the thought of having to deal with BS like that from rednecks is making me reconsider a life in the States, and instead, looking towards Germany, Canada, or even staying in Ireland. And this problem means that were someone like myself to do something extraordinary, you guys won't get any credit. And I'm sure there's a lot of foreigners thinking the same thing as me. This could be bad for you guys. Bad enough to potentially lead to a vacuum of innovation in America.

I think you'll need a solution better than the H1B. Like talking over the rednecks, and proclaiming the voice of logic. I really hope something good happens for your country, as it seems like it might need it.

Think America, where is it that you want the next wave of genii, like myself, going? To you? Or to Switzerland?

EDIT: I think I would prefer America to Switzerland, of course. If only for the amount of resources you have at your disposal there. And I will of course try to ignore the ones screaming "They took err jerrrrrrrrbssss!" I will try. It's really all one can be expected to do, though.

[Raklian]

 

If you hear someone yelling "They're takin' ouuurr jerrrbs!" just ignore the person.

Unless "they" are robots and it's the 2040s, in which case the person has a point.

 

 

But if it is during the 2040s, you would expect basic income to be widely implemented in many parts of the world. In this scenario, robots taking our jobs would actually be beneficial for obvious reasons. The working conditions these days for most people are harmful to their psychological & physical well-being thus reducing lifespans.

[Raklian]

I think you'll need a solution better than the H1B. Like talking over the rednecks, and proclaiming the voice of logic. I really hope something good happens for your country, as it seems like it might need it.
 

 

So, Civil War 2 in America is in order?

 

President Obama and the predominantly blue states declare that the rest of the country needs to be seized and then implement a more improved version of the Reconstruction Act - this time instilling articles of code stipulating the mandatory implementation of the scientific method and logical reasoning in all aspects of public and private sectors. Under this scenario, any display of bigotry is punishable by death.

 

Oh, how I wish Obama was so carefree with his military powers.

 

 

 

 

 

*I hope you see I was being sarcastic*

[PrimordialBeing]

<sarcasm>
The south needs liberatin'!
</sarcasm>

[Jakob]

 

 

If you hear someone yelling "They're takin' ouuurr jerrrbs!" just ignore the person.

Unless "they" are robots and it's the 2040s, in which case the person has a point.

 

 

But if it is during the 2040s, you would expect basic income to be widely implemented in many parts of the world. In this scenario, robots taking our jobs would actually be beneficial for obvious reasons. The working conditions these days for most people are harmful to their psychological & physical well-being thus reducing lifespans.

 

Hmm. You know what I think about UBI. I'll not derail another thread arguing about it.

[Yuli Ban]

I must have missed it. Please link me to the most pertinent threads.

[Mike the average]

a little terrifying if a rep wins in 2016 and starts bypassing congress 'because Obama did'.

[Bradley]

Ronald Reagan, a Republican, granted amnesty to illegal aliens while he was President. And Republicans lick that man's balls. Figuratively, because he's dead.

[Unity]

I don't know how I feel about this issue, but realistically what is the alternative? Set up a gestapo? It would drain the kingdom's coffers when we are verily in great need from fighting the desert men of the east. This decision on the other hand will boost the kingdom's coffers.

[Futurist]

Ronald Reagan, a Republican, granted amnesty to illegal aliens while he was President. And Republicans lick that man's balls. Figuratively, because he's dead.

Interestingly enough, though, this move of Reagan's does not appear to have helped the Republicans win more Hispanic/Latino support afterwards.

[Futurist]

I don't know how I feel about this issue, but realistically what is the alternative? Set up a gestapo? It would drain the kingdom's coffers when we are verily in great need from fighting the desert men of the east. This decision on the other hand will boost the kingdom's coffers.

LOL! "desert men of the east" 

[Italian Ufo]

 

 

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I believe that America is a nation of immigrants. Everybody agrees that the system is broken. There has been ample opportunity for Congress to pass a bipartisan immigration bill that would strengthen our borders, improve the legal immigration system, lift millions of people out of the shadows so they are paying taxes and getting right by the law. It passed out of the Senate. I gave the House over a year to go ahead and at least give a vote to the Senate bill. They failed to do so. And I indicated to Speaker Boehner several months ago that if in fact Congress failed to act, I would use all the lawful authority that I possess to try to make the system work better. And that’s going to happen. That’s going to happen before the end of the year.

 

From:  http://www.democracy...plan_too_modest

 

Well?

 

Do you think Obama and the pro-immigrant forces will prevail?

 

Do you think he should prevail on this issue?

 

Per the Democracy Now! citation, is his plan too modest?

 

Please feel free to answer one or two of the questions with out answering all three.

 

 

The enough number to reach Democratic votes in the next elections

[Futurist]

 

 

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I believe that America is a nation of immigrants. Everybody agrees that the system is broken. There has been ample opportunity for Congress to pass a bipartisan immigration bill that would strengthen our borders, improve the legal immigration system, lift millions of people out of the shadows so they are paying taxes and getting right by the law. It passed out of the Senate. I gave the House over a year to go ahead and at least give a vote to the Senate bill. They failed to do so. And I indicated to Speaker Boehner several months ago that if in fact Congress failed to act, I would use all the lawful authority that I possess to try to make the system work better. And that’s going to happen. That’s going to happen before the end of the year.

 

From:  http://www.democracy...plan_too_modest

 

Well?

 

Do you think Obama and the pro-immigrant forces will prevail?

 

Do you think he should prevail on this issue?

 

Per the Democracy Now! citation, is his plan too modest?

 

Please feel free to answer one or two of the questions with out answering all three.

I think that the U.S. will continue being a nation of legal immigrants well into the future; after all, talk of further restricting legal immigration does not appear to have been politically correct over the last couple of/several decades. As for illegal immigrants, I think that Obama and the Democrats will prevail on this due to demographic reasons and also due to a lack of other politically and practically feasible solutions to this problem (this is why I myself lean in favor of supporting Obama and the Democrats on this). Of course, unless border security is significantly increased and improved (and perhaps even if both of these things occur), giving amnesty to illegal immigrants could encourage additional illegal immigrants to come to the U.S. afterwards.

 

As for whether or not I think that Obama's plan is too modest, well, I haven't studied it enough to have a solid opinion on this.

[Jakob]

I must have missed it. Please link me to the most pertinent threads.

Lengthy battle in defense of capitalism.

Long argument over UBI in a completely unrelated thread.

[Lunix688]

I think in order to sustain and encourage economic growth, and to continue to be a young country that is able to sustain it's power and wealth, the U.S needs higher levels of immigrants. 

 

I don't know the statistics, however I know many, many, of the innovations that we utilize ever day were invented by immigrants arriving to the U.S. These same immigrants created thousands - if not hundreds of thousands of jobs. By limiting immigrants, it's limiting opportunity not just for immigrants but for Americans. 

 

More immigrants is more consumers, more workers, more tax payers.