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Slovak Same Sex Marriage/Adoption February 7 Referendum


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#21
Rainbow Frog

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See this ...etc

 

Imagine you're the adopted child. if you have mom and dad, they can successfully hide this fact from you, till you reach 15-18 years old. Now imagine you're 10 years old & the only person in your class who have two "dads"... should i explain what will happen & how you will be treated by classmates? So...

 

 

.....?

 

The child will be ostracized for having two dads, I wouldn't shit on a kid for that, most of the people I know wouldn't shit on a kid for that, I doubt most classes would shit on a kid for that.

Maybe things are different in Russia?


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#22
TheComrade

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The child will be ostracized for having two dads, I wouldn't shit on a kid for that, most of the people I know wouldn't shit on a kid for that, I doubt most classes would shit on a kid for that.

Maybe things are different in Russia?

 

VERY different.

 

In a civilised country, there wouldn't be any problem. Besides, you answered "no" to the third question, which means that you agree that schools should explain homosexuality to children.

 

OK, let's at least wait until Russia will become "civilized country".



#23
joe00uk

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PhoenixRu, is social stigma the only reason you're against LGBT adoption? Social stigma is something that can be educated out of the system, you know.


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#24
Rainbow Frog

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The child will be ostracized for having two dads, I wouldn't shit on a kid for that, most of the people I know wouldn't shit on a kid for that, I doubt most classes would shit on a kid for that.

Maybe things are different in Russia?

 

VERY different.

 

 

That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

Social norms seem to be the only real reason to go against it, I've yet to find one argument against gay adoption that has scientific backing.


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People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered. Love them anyway. 
If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives. Do good anyway. 
If you are successful, you will win false friends and true enemies. Succeed anyway. 
The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway. 
Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway. 
The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds. Think big anyway. 
People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs. Fight for a few underdogs anyway. 
What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight. Build anyway. 
People really need help but may attack you if you do help them. Help people anyway. 
Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth. Give the world the best you have anyway.

#25
Mashallah

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The child will be ostracized for having two dads, I wouldn't shit on a kid for that, most of the people I know wouldn't shit on a kid for that, I doubt most classes would shit on a kid for that.

Maybe things are different in Russia?

 

VERY different.

 

In a civilised country, there wouldn't be any problem. Besides, you answered "no" to the third question, which means that you agree that schools should explain homosexuality to children.

 

OK, let's at least wait until Russia will become "civilized country".

 

 

The country in question is Slovakia, not Russia.


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#26
joe00uk

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Homophobia just needs to be made illegal. No expression of it must be allowed in any way, shape or form. Just the scientific facts, no bias whatsoever. When there are only the facts about this matter in particular, there won't be any of this ridiculous prejudice against the LGBT community you unfortunately see running rampant around countries like Russia.



#27
Rainbow Frog

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http://rationalwiki....t.27s_unnatural

 

Ezy arguments for gay marriage, also touches on the "Think of the Children" argument.

 

I love Rationalwiki


People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered. Love them anyway. 
If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives. Do good anyway. 
If you are successful, you will win false friends and true enemies. Succeed anyway. 
The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway. 
Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway. 
The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds. Think big anyway. 
People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs. Fight for a few underdogs anyway. 
What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight. Build anyway. 
People really need help but may attack you if you do help them. Help people anyway. 
Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth. Give the world the best you have anyway.

#28
Mashallah

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Homophobia just needs to be made illegal. No expression of it must be allowed in any way, shape or form. Just the scientific facts, no bias whatsoever. When there are only the facts about this matter in particular, there won't be any of this ridiculous prejudice against the LGBT community you unfortunately see running rampant around countries like Russia.

This is fascism. No expression of opinions should ever be illegal. 


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I don't like being lied to, but I'm also tired of The Truth.

Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor.


#29
joe00uk

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Homophobia just needs to be made illegal. No expression of it must be allowed in any way, shape or form. Just the scientific facts, no bias whatsoever. When there are only the facts about this matter in particular, there won't be any of this ridiculous prejudice against the LGBT community you unfortunately see running rampant around countries like Russia.

This is fascism. No expression of opinions should ever be illegal. 

 

Fascism is an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organisation. My suggestion was certainly authoritarian but certainly not nationalistic or right-wing.



#30
Rainbow Frog

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Homophobia just needs to be made illegal. No expression of it must be allowed in any way, shape or form. Just the scientific facts, no bias whatsoever. When there are only the facts about this matter in particular, there won't be any of this ridiculous prejudice against the LGBT community you unfortunately see running rampant around countries like Russia.

This is fascism. No expression of opinions should ever be illegal. 

 

 

I agree, that just makes us as bad as them.


People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered. Love them anyway. 
If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives. Do good anyway. 
If you are successful, you will win false friends and true enemies. Succeed anyway. 
The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway. 
Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway. 
The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds. Think big anyway. 
People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs. Fight for a few underdogs anyway. 
What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight. Build anyway. 
People really need help but may attack you if you do help them. Help people anyway. 
Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth. Give the world the best you have anyway.

#31
Mashallah

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Homophobia just needs to be made illegal. No expression of it must be allowed in any way, shape or form. Just the scientific facts, no bias whatsoever. When there are only the facts about this matter in particular, there won't be any of this ridiculous prejudice against the LGBT community you unfortunately see running rampant around countries like Russia.

This is fascism. No expression of opinions should ever be illegal. 

 

Fascism is an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organisation. My suggestion was certainly authoritarian but certainly not nationalistic or right-wing.

 

 

Well, yes, but still.

Authoritarianism is inherently bad and should be always avoided whenever possible.

Free speech should be absolute with discussion of everything being legal, even holocaust or whatever. Making the discussion of something illegal only contributes to the Streisand effect and is therefore counter-productive.


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#32
Mashallah

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And an example a bit closer to me: sure, it might hurt my feelings when someone says that I'm a freak and should be shot for being transgender. But it'd offend me way more if that person got arrested for that.

I strictly oppose all kinds of bullshit laws that limit the freedom of speech in any way or form.


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I don't like being lied to, but I'm also tired of The Truth.

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#33
joe00uk

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Yes, but it does seem illogical to me that a government should tolerate falsehoods like the lies that homophobia spreads, we're all aware of the power of such falsehoods - just look at all the largely homophobic regions of the world, look at some religions, and all because of lies. What I'm really trying to say here is that the truth should be the only thing taught. Anything contrary to the truth must be dismissed for the garbage it is.



#34
Mashallah

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Yes, but it does seem illogical to me that a government should tolerate falsehoods like the lies that homophobia spreads, we're all aware of the power of such falsehoods - just look at all the largely homophobic regions of the world, look at some religions, and all because of lies. What I'm really trying to say here is that the truth should be the only thing taught. Anything contrary to the truth must be dismissed for the garbage it is.

 

If education is provided, those falsehoods will fall apart on their own through public discussion.

But if you ban public discussion, the only thing you will get are groups of radicals who are only more certain in their truth thanks to the ban.


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#35
TheComrade

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Homophobia just needs to be made illegal. No expression of it must be allowed in any way, shape or form. Just the scientific facts, no bias whatsoever. When there are only the facts about this matter in particular, there won't be any of this ridiculous prejudice against the LGBT community you unfortunately see running rampant around countries like Russia.

 

This reminded me the old Soviet practice to put dissidents into madhouses. Clearly, the freedom of speech was one of basic rights in USSR, but other hand, advantages of socialism over capitalism were so clear and obviuos that only a mad person could doubt or discuss this... and therefore...



#36
Kemotx

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I'm not afraid of LGBT's (I'm one btw) and I don't hate them. I just think that having Mother and Father is a sufficient reason. I will fight for equal treating and almost all rights, and I'm against abuse of LGBTs. Now I do believe that there are many responsible same-sex parents, for example those who want their children to know one/two biological parents. I still believe they are harming their child though.

 

Just so people won't think I'm a hypocrite, I would also oppose one-person Ectogenesis. Why? Only one parent.

 

Now I absolutely don't agree with "children will be bullied" argument; that's not it's fault but the fault of bullies. Altrough yes, in East Europe that would likely happen.



#37
Mashallah

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I'm not afraid of LGBT's (I'm one btw) and I don't hate them. I just think that having Mother and Father is a sufficient reason. I will fight for equal treating and almost all rights, and I'm against abuse of LGBTs. Now I do believe that there are many responsible same-sex parents, for example those who want their children to know one/two biological parents. I still believe they are harming their child though.

 

Just so people won't think I'm a hypocrite, I would also oppose one-person Ectogenesis. Why? Only one parent.

 

Now I absolutely don't agree with "children will be bullied" argument; that's not it's fault but the fault of bullies. Altrough yes, in East Europe that would likely happen.

 

Let me change your argument a bit to see if you will still support it:

 

 

I think that black people shouldn't be allowed to adopt children. Think of the children! They should have the right to have two white parents!


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I don't like being lied to, but I'm also tired of The Truth.

Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor.


#38
Kemotx

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I'm not afraid of LGBT's (I'm one btw) and I don't hate them. I just think that having Mother and Father is a sufficient reason. I will fight for equal treating and almost all rights, and I'm against abuse of LGBTs. Now I do believe that there are many responsible same-sex parents, for example those who want their children to know one/two biological parents. I still believe they are harming their child though.

 

Just so people won't think I'm a hypocrite, I would also oppose one-person Ectogenesis. Why? Only one parent.

 

Now I absolutely don't agree with "children will be bullied" argument; that's not it's fault but the fault of bullies. Altrough yes, in East Europe that would likely happen.

 

Let me change your argument a bit to see if you will still support it:

 

 

I think that black people shouldn't be allowed to adopt children. Think of the children! They should have the right to have two white parents!

 

 

No. First of all, what's "Black"? Nigerian black or passing black? Second, while it may be marginally harder for a child to identify with parents at first, race is just a product of evolution, like red hair or asian eyes. Gender is another, interracial thing. Appearance similar to a child should be the last criteria during adoption. It will certainly help a child to bond with parents, but the more important things are their personality, responsibility, financial status, criminal record etc.



#39
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That sounds a lot like you just destroyed your own argument... xD



#40
Jakob

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I think that #3 should explicitly not be taught in schools. People go there for knowledge, not pointless distractions. Not sure what it has to do with the other two, though.






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