Jump to content

Welcome to FutureTimeline.forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

History of Humans & Primates

humans primates cro magnon neanderthals proto-human evolution hunter-gatherer human evolution australopithecus primate evolution

  • Please log in to reply
252 replies to this topic

#101
Brohanne Jahms

Brohanne Jahms

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 598 posts
...and since Neanderthals had roughly the same mass as we are, their big brain (unlike of australopithecus or homo erectus) is very indicative. I highly suspect that, being born in modern society, they could go to college without a problem. Unlike of blue whales.

 

To be fair, if a human were born in the ocean it probably wouldn't last very long either.


  • Yuli Ban and FutureOfToday like this

#102
TheComrade

TheComrade

    BANNED

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,642 posts

About Neanderthals again.

You, guys, wrote:

 

there are too many differences between them and us to say that they're just like us.

 

and:

 

gap between us is HUGE.

 

...but huge gap in WHAT? That's what I can't understand. "Hairy blockheads with clubs" is just the popular stereotype, anyway our own ancestors weren't any better. Cannibalism? Again, early Homo Sapiens weren't any better... Some differences between our and their psyche? Most likely, but i don't think those differences were so fundamental.

Let suppose they somehow survived till our days. Say, they live on Faroes or some other isolated island. In that case, how the rest of humanity will be about them? I'm almost sure, they'd received the full civil rights & any speeches about "differences" or "gaps" would be considered to be racist.



#103
kjaggard

kjaggard

    Artificer

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,980 posts
  • Locationwhere fanciful imaginings and hard won knowledge meet to genesis the future.

There have been some finds to suggest that Neanderthals developed the same tech level as humans, independantly of us. There has been evidence that they made jewelry of shells and had burial traditions.

 

Some evidence suggests that they may have even developed certain tech before we did, and that we may have learned it from them.

 

The biological evidence does not support the slumped or hairy beast men.

 

They were shorter by a few inches then we were, they were stockier and stronger. They had larger brain to body mass ratios.

 

They didn't die out because they were to animalistic to survive. They dies out because the climate changed in a direction that eliminated mega fauna, their primary food source. They were spread thinly enough as it was due to needing to be spread out to assure enough meat animals in a range of territory to support a clan. And then you throw in a invasive species like us competeing for some of the same resources... they just couldn't adapt fast enough.

 

Like the mega fauna predators unable to sustain their size and population with dwindling herbavores of large size, they faded out. Had they managed to developed animal husbandry and domesticated large elk and bison, growng feed stock for them in agricultural systems they could have persisted for a very long time. But their small clans and remoted areas spread out from each other made cultural innovation difficult, ideas don't spread as easily or as far.

 

It still took us several tens of thousands of years to adapt these techniques ourselves. What saved us is our ability to survive on roots, nuts and berries as well as rabbit meat and fish. That held us on long enough to build communities that innovated together and ultimately spawned the agricultural revolution that made our growth opportunities that much more enabling. Then came some of the earliest city state leading to Babylon and Egypt ect.


Edited by kjaggard, 29 August 2013 - 04:42 AM.

Live content within small means. Seek elegance rather than luxury, Grace over fashion and wealth over riches.
Listen to clouds and mountains, children and sages. Act bravely, think boldly.
Await occasions, never make haste. Find wonder and awe, by experiencing the everyday.

#104
FutureOfToday

FutureOfToday

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,685 posts
Well, they were a different species from us. We're no more like them than we are homo floresiensis. That's how we're different. We're more similar to homo sapeiens idaltu, since they were actually the same species as us, but you rarely hear them mentioned.

#105
zEVerzan

zEVerzan

    Orange Animating Android

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,699 posts
  • LocationSome Underground Sweatshop Probably

Since they were fully carnivorous, do you think they would possibly have been even more prone to violence than we are?


I always imagined the future as a time of more reason, empathy, and peace, not less. It's time for a change.
Attention is currency in the "free marketplace of ideas".
I do other stuff besides gripe about the future! Twitter Youtube DeviantArt +-PATREON-+

#106
TheComrade

TheComrade

    BANNED

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,642 posts
Since they were fully carnivorous, do you think they would possibly have been even more prone to violence than we are?

 

Perhaps... or vise versa. As intelligent beings, they could create culture with very strict social prohibitions, taboos, etc: "There are daemons inside you, son! You must be polite with everyone, you must always follow traditions, you must avoid conflicts to not let those daemons to break out".

 

===

btw, there is a good (imho) sci-fi novel:

 

http://en.wikipedia....erthal_Parallax

 

...the parallel earth where so-called "gliksins" (our ancestors) went extinct, and Neanderthals created their own civilization, described (incl. the problem of aggression) in details.


Edited by PhoenixRu, 31 August 2013 - 06:09 AM.

  • Yuli Ban likes this

#107
Zeitgeist123

Zeitgeist123

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,805 posts

there is definitely a stron indication that they are stronger and probably even more violent than us. their intelligence is similar to us but their way of thinking is different. just like the 2 different specie of intelligent birds- caledonian crows and kea parrots. their intelligence level is quite similar, but their way of problem-solving skills are very different.

 

also, about neanderthal's extinction, it is also possible that neanderthals became exticnt because they were not immune to the diseases/bacteria/parasites that the homo sapiens were carrying out from africa spreading to europe.


Edited by Zeitgeist123, 31 August 2013 - 08:37 PM.

“Philosophy is a pretty toy if one indulges in it with moderation at the right time of life. But if one pursues it further than one should, it is absolute ruin." - Callicles to Socrates


#108
WithoutCoincidence

WithoutCoincidence

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,428 posts
  • LocationSomewhere above Zero Latitude.

Gonna have to check out that alternate-Earth series about neanderthals becoming the dominant hominid. Sounds interesting.


The universe has gone from unimaginable, featureless heat to complexity and it will return in time to unimaginable, featureless cold.

-Chris Impey, How It Ends


#109
FutureOfToday

FutureOfToday

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,685 posts

Since they were fully carnivorous, do you think they would possibly have been even more prone to violence than we are?

Well, some scientists believe that they were actually omnivores, not exclusively carnivores, although they certainly would have had far less vegetables and fruit in their diet than we have today. Species in the homo genus are the only species of primates that haven't been fully herbivorous, hence why so many of them have become extinct. The reason Homo sapiens sapiens have survived is because of our omnivorous (or in many cases herbivorous) diet. But in answer to your question, I think that they certainly would have been more prone to violence, since getting meat requires hunting, and in those days, hunting wasn't done with rifles.

#110
RayMC

RayMC

    F̷̲̅ᴜ̷̲̅ᴛ̷̲̅ᴜ̷̲̅ʀ̷̲̅ᴇ̷̲̅

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 262 posts

Imagine if they had survived. That would have been a disaster. Probably a conflict between us and them would have happened, and we would be the ones loosing.


“Wʜᴀᴛ ɪs ɴᴏᴡ ᴘʀᴏᴠᴇᴅ, ᴡᴀs ᴏɴᴄᴇ ᴏɴʟʏ ɪᴍᴀɢɪɴᴇᴅ.” - Wɪʟʟɪᴀᴍ Bʟᴀᴋᴇ


#111
rtardx

rtardx

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 793 posts

Most of us Black People have no Neanderthal in us.



#112
TheComrade

TheComrade

    BANNED

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,642 posts
Most of us Black People have no Neanderthal in us.

 

Well, my congratulations... :)



#113
rtardx

rtardx

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 793 posts

That's an insult.



#114
TheComrade

TheComrade

    BANNED

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,642 posts

That's an insult.

 

Not at all. it was just ironic response to your weird post.



#115
Yuli Ban

Yuli Ban

    Born Again Singularitarian

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,576 posts
  • LocationNew Orleans, LA

That's an insult.

I don't feel it's an insult, and I'm half black (which, to iLibertarians, is twice as black as blacks) (no, fuck it, just say it. I'm black, particularly of the Zulu(?, need verification right now) variety). Neanderthals, while about as intelligent as Homo sapiens sapiens,  were believed to be more prone to violence and war. Than us, goddammit. If blacks have no Neanderthal blood, than that means Africans (not just blacks, but Africans as a whole, since Africa is the genetically diverse place out there) are  the purest humans you can find. Goddamn, we're the master race. How 'bout that.

 

Well, that's unless you're "black" in an Aborigine sense, though I'd assume that they were just as pure human. Not saying that whites and Asians aren't human!!! I'm just saying that since Africans lack Neanderthal blood, then they're more purely Homo sapiens sapiens and thus more purely human and thus more advanced as homo sapiens. 

Neanderthals were "human", right? As in, hold on.

 

Edit: Well they were close enough.

And besides, what the hell would a Transneanderthal look like?

 

BAH. Forget it.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#116
TheComrade

TheComrade

    BANNED

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,642 posts

Well, since you keep discussing my "insult"...

 

From my life experience, Blacks are much more obsessed with race and racial issues than Whites. Seriously, rtardx for example, he many times stated "we, Black People" or "for us, Black People" etc. Does it really matter here? Really interesting to someone? As for this "only Black People are pure Homo Sapiense" thing... well, i've heard it many times. Don't you think it's a very risky statement? First it's too close to "Blacks are only true Homo Sapiense" and second, it may be just wrong. Early Europeans crossbreed with Neanderthals, Early Asians crossbreed with Denisovan people... what if someone will prove that early Africans also crossbreed with someone. For me, it will be just another interesting fact. But for Black racists, it will be a painful blow to their self-importance.


Edited by PhoenixRu, 24 September 2013 - 05:38 AM.


#117
Yuli Ban

Yuli Ban

    Born Again Singularitarian

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,576 posts
  • LocationNew Orleans, LA

Well, since you keep discussing my "insult"...

 

From my life experience, Blacks are much more obsessed with race and racial issues than Whites. Seriously, rtardx for example, he many times stated "we, Black People" or "for us, Black People" etc. Does it really matter here? Really interesting to someone? As for this "only Black People are pure Homo Sapinse" thing... well, i've heard it many times. Don't you think it's a very risky statement? First it's too close to "Blacks are only true Homo Sapiense" and second, it may be just wrong. Early Europeans crossbreed with Neanderthals, Early Asians crossbreed with Denisovan people... what if someone will prove that early Africans also crossbreed with someone. For me, it will be just another interesting fact. But for Black racists, it will a painful blow to their self-importance.

Blacks are more conscious that they were screwed over is why. Same thing would happen if the race roles were reversed, because of the situations that occurred in the West. If Africans adopted Christianity more completely and thus globalized and advanced technologically, while Europe didn't and remained stuck in the Dark Ages,  there could have been the slave trade of Europeans, thus the screwing over of Europeans as a race, and the belief that Europeans are inferior by Africans. Thus, isn't it a tad bit fair that Europeans be more obsessed with race and racial issues since they're the underclass race?

And note- I said Africans. That's an important note to remember, that not all Africans are black just as not all Europeans are white and not all Latinos are... gold? Brown? Whatever. And most African Americans are mixed anyway. Personally, as a transhumanist, I couldn't care less who's "more human" than someone else because I plan on being more human than human. Besides, it's all the Homo genus, and Neanderthal DNA has long been diluted. It's human all around. 

What the actual fuck am I even talking about right now?


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#118
Yuli Ban

Yuli Ban

    Born Again Singularitarian

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,576 posts
  • LocationNew Orleans, LA

Also: Neanderthals died out because they had huge eyes?

Proof that anime is self-destructive.


  • Zeitgeist123 and zEVerzan like this

And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#119
rtardx

rtardx

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 793 posts

Couldn't the Neanderthal be brought back to life through selective breeding of the people possess the most neanderthal DNA?



#120
UFG

UFG

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 274 posts

So having beady eyes is apparently a good trait.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: humans, primates, cro magnon, neanderthals, proto-human, evolution, hunter-gatherer, human evolution, australopithecus, primate evolution

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users