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Dynamists vs catastrophists

dynamist catastrophist dystopia utopia optimism pessimism realism

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#1
Recyvuym

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Today's world is comprised of two archetypes: dynamists and catastrophists.

1. Dynamists are people who see 21st century modernity as a basically successful civilization advancing toward a future that ’s better than the past. They do not deny that problems exist, but they believe we can innovate our way through them while staying on an ever-richer, ever-more-liberated course. ¶ Dynamists of the left tend to put their faith in technocratic government; dynamists of the right,  in the genius of free markets. But both assume that modernity is a success story whose best days are ahead.

 

2. Catastrophists, on the other hand, see a global civilization that for all its achievements is becoming more atomized and balkanized, more morally bankrupt, more environmentally despoiled. What’s more, they believe that things cannot go on as they are: That the trajectory we’re on will end in crisis, disaster, dégringolade ¶ Like dynamists, catastrophists can be on the left or right, stressing different agents of our imminent demise. But they’re united
in believing that current arrangements are foredoomed, and that only a true revolution can save us.

 

— Excerpted from Ross Douthat’s “Pope Francis’ Call to Action Goes Beyond the Environment” for The New York Times.

 

 


I loudly predicted the second wave of the Global Financial Crisis would begin by the 31st of March 2017. But I was wrong! Observe my well-deserved public humiliation here, here and here. Let this be a warning to all of you who try to guess the future. Yes, that means you, reading this now! Put that prediction back in your pocket! Do it now, before it's too late! (Also check out my userpage, it's even funnier.)


#2
As We Rise

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And what group do you belong to, Recy? I'm more of a "catastrophist." 



#3
Recyvuym

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Oh, very very catastrophist.

Thought it was interesting this duality is becoming acknowledged in the public sphere. I should have made this topic into a poll.

I loudly predicted the second wave of the Global Financial Crisis would begin by the 31st of March 2017. But I was wrong! Observe my well-deserved public humiliation here, here and here. Let this be a warning to all of you who try to guess the future. Yes, that means you, reading this now! Put that prediction back in your pocket! Do it now, before it's too late! (Also check out my userpage, it's even funnier.)


#4
Jakob

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I'm dynamist. Obviously.



#5
Erowind

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I'm dynamist. Obviously.

 

For the Vanu Sovreignty, Tecnology Equals Might!!



#6
Unity

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I'm dynamist. Obviously.

 

 

We agree again! 



#7
Unity

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I'm dynamist. Obviously.

 

For the Vanu Sovreignty, Tecnology Equals Might!!

 

Elves are fucking orcs in the moonlight of Uranus



#8
Raklian

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If a war were to break out between dynamists and catastrophists, what would be the catalyst or the Ferdinand moment, if you will?

 

 

 

 

Elves are fucking orcs in the moonlight of Uranus


 

 

 

They should be somewhat biologically compatible since orcs were originally elves but twisted into them by a whim of a dark god.


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#9
TheComrade

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i'm the semi-catastrophist. This mean i agree with both "things cannot go on as they are" and "best days are ahead". I would just add that these best days are FAR ahead and not any way tied to current neo-liberal west-dominated world system.



#10
Recyvuym

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I agree, or at least I'm hopeful of that. One day, probably one day soon, we will look back on our present attitudes and myths about ourselves and the future, and laugh at them, just like we laugh at our ancestors and their stargazing and magic ancestor bones today.

 

Mods, is it possible to convert this topic into a poll? I'd like the options to be Dynamist, Catastrophist, Undecided or Other.


I loudly predicted the second wave of the Global Financial Crisis would begin by the 31st of March 2017. But I was wrong! Observe my well-deserved public humiliation here, here and here. Let this be a warning to all of you who try to guess the future. Yes, that means you, reading this now! Put that prediction back in your pocket! Do it now, before it's too late! (Also check out my userpage, it's even funnier.)


#11
caltrek

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I am mostly in the catastrophist camp with important exceptions. I do believe that technological solutions, or at least solutions that can be implemented in conjunction with technological development, can mitigate or overcome problems.  In some cases, market mechanisms can bring this about. However, these solutions cannot be implemented without a conscious decision to do so.  Market based solutions will only work if large numbers of consumers shop with an eye toward over all sustainability. Alternatively, government programs that mobilize resources toward solving important problems can also be implemented. Absent a consciousness oriented toward sustainable development, catastrophes will indeed occur.  Only the consciousness of consumers and voters can guide the proper utilization of new technologies.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#12
MarcZ

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I am one of the biggest dynamists on this board.



#13
Recyvuym

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I am mostly in the catastrophist camp with important exceptions. I do believe that technological solutions, or at least solutions that can be implemented in conjunction with technological development, can mitigate or overcome problems.  In some cases, market mechanisms can bring this about. However, these solutions cannot be implemented without a conscious decision to do so.  Market based solutions will only work if large numbers of consumers shop with an eye toward over all sustainability. Alternatively, government programs that mobilize resources toward solving important problems can also be implemented. Absent a consciousness oriented toward sustainable development, catastrophes will indeed occur.  Only the consciousness of consumers and voters can guide the proper utilization of new technologies.

I actually agree, it would be a mistake to say there's no chance this civilisation will produce anything of worth at all for future generations.

 

In thousands of years, perhaps we'll look back on the disasters of this age as being necessary. The Black Death (which were preceded by the Mongol invasions!) was arguably the second biggest disaster in human history. But a hundred years later, the globe was springing into the Renaissance, as a direct result. The old rotten wood of overpopulated cities and feudal society were burned down. Something new rose from the ashes.

 

That could happen to us in a hundred years, or in a thousand, or ten thousand, or maybe never, I don't know. But there's still cause for hope.

 

Just, not for the short term. No, we are fucked. Fucked. Like, "Sorry, you have fourth phase cancer" fucked.


I loudly predicted the second wave of the Global Financial Crisis would begin by the 31st of March 2017. But I was wrong! Observe my well-deserved public humiliation here, here and here. Let this be a warning to all of you who try to guess the future. Yes, that means you, reading this now! Put that prediction back in your pocket! Do it now, before it's too late! (Also check out my userpage, it's even funnier.)


#14
tierbook

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dynamist, not much of a question



#15
Astralator

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In the end this boils down to how much faith one has in humanity, doesn't it?

I am a semi-Dynamist personally - let's just hope that mankind gets its act together. 


Playing God is actually the highest expression of human nature. The urges to improve ourselves, to master our environment, [...] have been the fundamental driving forces of all of human history. Without these urges to ‘play God’, the world as we know it wouldn’t exist today.” - Ramez Naam






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: dynamist, catastrophist, dystopia, utopia, optimism, pessimism, realism

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