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#1481
Erowind

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Been looking at the FED projections for months. Honestly surprised annualized GDP loss isn't lower. They were calling for 52% a few weeks ago.



#1482
wjfox

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#1483
PhoenixRu

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^ ^ ^

 

This ideology is the main reason why I stopped reading the US (overwhelmingly pro-Democratic) media. Not because I disagree with this or that, but because they ceased to be interesting and have turned into primitive and straightforward propaganda leaflets, too toxic even for their own staff.

 

My current main source on American events are local Russian bloggers. There are plenty of them and it was interesting to watch the gradual change in their views, from "nothing special, there were riots before, they'll calm down after the elections" to "yes, there was nothing like this before".

 

My opinion remains the same: USA is moving (or more precisely, being quite deliberately pushed) to its own coloured revolution. The best scenario (in the short-term) is such: Trump suffers a crushing electoral defeat and resigns without struggle. But even in this case, the new regime may face some difficulties removing the BLM-thugs (no longer necessary) from the streets and explaining why the everyday life becomes worse and worse despite the fact that "main cause" of troubles is already gone.



#1484
Erowind

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Reading TeleSUR and RT balances perspectives imo. Especially TeleSUR. There are biases in both those outlets and they report fake news too sometimes. But at least it's not fake news in favor of American interests.

 

Edit: Disagree with BLM being thugs but this part is true. Conditions will not improve under a Biden admin, an admin which I would expect to be one of the weakest in American history.

"explaining why the everyday life becomes worse and worse despite the fact that "main cause" of troubles is already gone."



#1485
wjfox

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Conditions will not improve under a Biden admin

 

Well it's either Biden – who'd at least move things in a more stable direction – or the Trump catastrophe and continued proto-fascism. Take your pick.



#1486
Erowind

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Biden is also proto-fascism. Police militerization, concentration camps, police brutality and extrajudicial killings by police aren't going away if he's elected, they're his policy. I don't care if he pretends to like a given identity, his actions speak for him. I don't care what he says on the campaign trail because we know from political science studies that it's rhetoric, lies, and won't be followed through on once in office like every president of recent times.

 

The Patriot Act, the legislation that allowed Trump to send unmarked federal agents into cities was voted for by Biden. Biden in the 70s worked with segregationists to bring "law and order" down on "thugs." Biden was instrumental in orchestrating The Crime Bill during the Clinton Administration which is responsible for millions of enslaved Americans locked in forced labor camps we call "prisons."

 

Both choices are hell, the only sane option is to reject both and act as if the government is a malevolent force because it is. Rejecting voting in an oligarchy =/= rejecting action or apathy. We can build co-ops, communes, mutual aid networks, unions and community. We can organize and I do. The cooperative I'm part of built a large "take what you need give what you have" box on our street the size of 2 very large refrigerators a few months ago. It's been stocked with food and used since. https://www.nytimes....crime-laws.html



#1487
wjfox

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The only sane option is to reject both

 

It really isn't.

 

Can't you see that the number one, absolute highest priority, right now, is to remove Trump from office??!

 

The course of action you propose will guarantee another four years of Trump!

 

Your attitude mirrors perfectly that of Corbyn's supporters here in the UK, who lost by a crushing landslide in December. Whilst your heart is in the right place, I would urge you to please be less naive, and consider a more realistic path to advance the leftist cause. Politics is about compromise.



#1488
Outlook

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https://www.marxists...k/democracy.htm
Outlook's secret song of the ~week: https://youtu.be/Gnyr3sbdKkU

#1489
Erowind

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I think you're heart is the right place too. No hard feelings either way :)

I might come back to this in more detail at some point, probably in another more appropriate thread if I remember. I'd posit that politics is about different things in different systems. In a democracy yes I agree completely that politics is about compromise, building consensus, cooperation and coexisting with the people around us. In an oligarchy though I think politics is probably about power. (That doesn't mean might = right, it doesn't) Meaning that I need to take direct action to make the world a better place. Considering in America specifically the electoral process is clearly rigged and draws attention and activist efforts away from organizing that can make substantive change I don't personally put stock in it. Even if I did, I don't agree with Biden on enough things to vote for him. I'd have to vote Green or something.

 

(Which I perpetually bounce back and forth on, there's a letter to sign a petition to get the green party on the ballot in my locality sitting in my mail holder waiting to be enveloped. Even though the effort is entirely futile. Maybe that's a way to relate the feeling. Folks who think that third parties in America are futile but put stock in one of the big two, that's how I feel about any party most of the time!)

 

Funny thought experiment I thought of right now while writing this. Considering how much citizens of other countries follow American politics and how much American politics affects everyone else in the world. It would only be just that non-Americans get to vote in American elections no? The people affected by a decision have a right to be part of the process making that decision. By that measure, perhaps non-citizens could have a vote worth ~1/23rd an American Citizens through online voting. That way if every non-American voted non-Americans would make up 50% of the electorate in U.S politics. What a world that'd be!



#1490
caltrek

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The Patriot Act, the legislation that allowed Trump to send unmarked federal agents into cities was voted for by Biden. Biden in the 70s worked with segregationists to bring "law and order" down on "thugs." Biden was instrumental in orchestrating The Crime Bill during the Clinton Administration which is responsible for millions of enslaved Americans locked in forced labor camps we call "prisons."

 

The Patriot Act was approved based on the idea that it was needed to combat the actions of foreign terrorists. While the Democrats can be correctly criticized for being naive about how that act might be abused, it was never their policy to "send unmarked agents into cities".

 

The Crime Bill Clinton Administration was in fact supported by many black leaders who at the time were concerned about urban crime.  Clearly, popular opinion and the opinion of the black leadership of this country has shifted.  It is therefore logical to assume that Biden's opinion  will also shift and that his policies would reflect that once he is in office. 

 

If we apply the "were you always right" test to every political leader that comes forth, we will never make any progress. Indeed, quite the opposite, we will spiral into fascism, as only the fascists will be seen as having the virtue of being consistent over time.  We need leaders like Biden because they can bring with them the support of those who embraced bad policies of the past. They can effectively argue that we all need to learn from our mistakes and that we need to act accordingly. 

 

Edit:  I should add that I am not totally against support of third parties.  I have voted for Green and Peace and Freedom party candidates in the past. Our mayor, who I support, is a member of the Green party. I just think there is a time and a place to express such support.  In the face of an opponent who is clearly attempting to impose a fascist regime upon our country, clearly it is appropriate to put other differences aside and unite in opposition against such a candidate.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#1491
Raklian

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/\  Caltrek +1


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#1492
Erowind

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The Patriot Act was approved based on the idea that it was needed to combat the actions of foreign terrorists. While the Democrats can be correctly criticized for being naive about how that act might be abused, it was never their policy to "send unmarked agents into cities".

No, they are educated individuals with billions of dollars of funding. There is zero excuse for naivety. Political scientists have been talking about power creep for generations. These people have an ethical responsibility to understand the ramification of their actions. Even if they were ignorant they deserve to be judged as if they weren't. In the same vain if I were a frat boy who attended a college with Jewish students that chopped off a pigs head and left it on the Jewish Student Associations porch as a prank I would deserve to be judged in the vain of a hate crime even if I was too stupid to understand the cultural connection.

 

Democrats of the time helped write, legislate and vote the policy in. There action is what matters. We're not talking about someone who needs rehabilitation for a crime. I don't want people who sacrifice liberty for "security" so they can consolidate their power in office period. Politicians who play into terrorism rhetoric deserve to be ousted all the same. I don't care for our collective two minutes hate by which so much that is wrong is justified.

 

So yes, their policy created the problem, they are responsible, democrats of the time absolutely sent unmarked federal agents into cities. If I roll a boulder down a cliff and it kills a man I still killed him even I didn't intend to. And though we can talk about manslaughter on an individual level in the context of a court. If I'm being really generous, because I don't actually believe any of this is coming from a place of ignorance on Biden's part, he speaks with great conviction in the 70s, 80s and 90s on his positions. I think it's unreasonable to tolerate people who consistently commit mass manslaughter as politicians. And that's exactly why Biden and his cadre even cares to change their aesthetic now. Because the people of America will no longer tolerate politicians who build concentration camps. Good on us for that.

 

The Crime Bill Clinton Administration was in fact supported by many black leaders who at the time were concerned about urban crime.  Clearly, popular opinion and the opinion of the black leadership of this country has shifted.  It is therefore logical to assume that Biden's opinion  will also shift and that his policies would reflect that once he is in office.

It doesn't matter if some black "leaders" supported enslaving black people in concentration camps. It's still wrong to enslave black people in concentration camps it doesn't matter if the people doing it are black or what their intent is. This is the definition of a virtue signal. Popular opinion is fabricated by monied interests through a variety of propaganda outlets. There's nothing popular about democrat policy then or now and there is no free marketplace of ideas in this country. Most importantly wine sipping black establishment democrats in Washington don't speak for Black Americans or are at all representative of their experience.

 

If we apply the "were you always right" test to every political leader that comes forth, we will never make any progress. Indeed, quite the opposite, we will spiral into fascism, as only the fascists will be seen as having the virtue of being consistent over time.  We need leaders like Biden because they can bring with them the support of those who embraced bad policies of the past. They can effectively argue that we all need to learn from our mistakes and that we need to act accordingly.

 

I'm not asking for perfection. But there are clear ethical lines a functioning democracy should adhere to. One of them would be not electing governments that consistently send citizens to concentration camps. Another one would be not electing and supporting politicians that use media platforms to fabricate consent and consolidate their power. It is entirely undemocratic to support Biden. Ethical lines are possible, the argument in question is ahistorical in nature. Denazification did happen in Germany. The Germans were able to craft a society with certain ethical standards that have been upheld. In like kind our own country has a consistent ethical standard on the question of private property, namely that it's a good thing in its current implementation and must be upheld. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to demand that no politician build concentration camps and to hold any politician who has done that to a lifelong consequence of harsh judgement.

 

As for the only alternative being fascism due to how "consistent" the fascists are. I hope you never have the displeasure to frequent a place like /pol/ on 4chan. Let's just say that many of these "fascists" have a pronounced fetish for promiscuous exogamy in the bedroom. :spruceup:

 

Edit:  I should add that I am not totally against support of third parties.  I have voted for Green and Peace and Freedom party candidates in the past. Our mayor, who I support, is a member of the Green party. I just think there is a time and a place to express such support.  In the face of an opponent who is clearly attempting to impose a fascist regime upon our country, clearly it is appropriate to put other differences aside and unite in opposition against such a candidate.

If the democrats actually presented a way forward they'd probably get my enthusiastic support even if it were begrudging. The fact of the matter is though that their administrations laid the groundwork for Trump and a vote for Biden is just a vote for a future Trump, probably a much worse version of him at that. Bringing Biden in will not open the door for a future progressive movement. The duopoly of power however many democrat terms onward will swing back to the conservatives again like it has for over 50 years and this time they'll be even worse then they are today.

 

This is because whatever reforms the centrist democrats implement will be wholly inadequate and conditions will continue to worsen, sparking popular unrest, which will again support the GOP as they position themselves to harness it. The only way to prevent our countries continual slide into authoritarianism is to systemically change our government entirely. We either have it now or later. In any case I agree with not being able to support the imposition of a fascist regime. Which is why I can't vote for either candidate.

 

Sidenote: I'm detecting a theme, though we are generally more mutually respectful of one another (any past disrespect has wholly been on my part for which I apologize for being so emblazoned) I'm sensing a new era of the forum. There were the great Caltrek vs PheonixRu debates. Perhaps we are in the era of the Caltrek vs Erowind debates. As much as I don't want to frame this as conflict, because I'm not upset, it's just funny.



#1493
wjfox

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#1494
caltrek

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Ordinarily, I wouldn't bother to post the following article because it is so much of stating the obvious about U.S. history.  However, because some in this forum living in other countries don't seem to get it, perhaps this will help them understand.  

 

Protesters for Black Lives Are America’s True Patriots

 

https://ourfuture.or...s-true-patriots

 

Introduction:

(Our Future) When demonstrations erupted across the country after George Floyd’s death at the hands of police officers, Donald Trump portrayed the protesters as America’s enemies.

 

Trump called them “thugs,” “lowlifes” and “losers.” He threatened to unleash America’s military on them and fled to a White House bunker while demonstrators gathered in Lafayette Square.

 

But the protesters posed no threat.

 

They’re the nation’s true patriots.

 

For more than 200 years, ordinary Americans have taken to the streets to oppose injustice and improve their lives. That foundational right has been the basis for real change in the nation.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#1495
caltrek

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The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters

 

https://www.counterp...duces-monsters/

 

Introduction:

(Counterpunch) There is a real discrepancy in how you react as attorney general when white men with Swastikas storm a government building with guns. There is no need for the president to, quote, ‘activate you’ because they’re getting the president’s personal agenda done. But when black people and people of color protest police brutality, systemic racism and the president’s very own lack of response to those critical issues, then you forcibly remove them with armed federal officers, pepper bombs because they are considered terrorists by the president.

 

-Rep. Pramila Jayapal (Democrat)  addressing Attorney General William Barr

 

Wake up, America, the signs of the police state loom large. Of course, for some, America has always been one; now, increasingly, they have the videos to prove it. But now it’s no longer only a matter of local law enforcement.

 

Conclusion:

 In the face of such rampant corruption, we try, like Jayapal, to contain our anger as we interrogate the brazen daily spectacle of mindless power displays orchestrated by an erratic, incompetent infant terrible who grabs pussies, lies, endorses medical quackery, and skulks away when called out on it, but who, despite his abjectly abnormal behavior, remains commander-in-chief with access to federal troops.

 

Our would-be Fuehrer and the Homeland don’t need protection; the people and its Constitution do.

 

Wake up, America, for as you slumber, monsters rule.

 

Of course, there are those who represent themselves as being on the left who have always pointed to the least bit of authoritarian tendency as being fascist.  This helps us to stay in our slumber as the real thing arrives on the scene.  Such dilution and consequent weakening of the power of a word like fascist suspends our ability to see the difference, to see Trump as a true threat that goes way beyond the norm.  This is the danger of a continual invoking of false equivalents, with no appreciation of nuance or the slippery slope that we are on.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#1496
wjfox

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Brave woman...

 

-----

 

New York attorney general sues to dissolve NRA

9 minutes ago

New York's attorney general has announced a lawsuit aimed at dissolving the powerful National Rifle Association over alleged financial mismanagement.

Letitia James said the NRA had diverted millions of dollars to leaders including its head, Wayne LaPierre, for their personal use.

"For these years of misconduct we are seeking an order to dissolve the NRA entirely," she said.

The NRA described the lawsuit as a "baseless, premeditated attack".

Ms James said that the four named defendants - Mr LaPierre, Wilson Phillips, Joshua Powell and John Frazer "instituted a culture of self-dealing, mismanagement and negligent oversight at the NRA that was illegal, oppressive and fraudulent".

The attorney general outlined a litany of charges against the defendants, but accused Mr LaPierre, long the face of the powerful gun lobby group, of being the "central figure" behind the organisation's wrongdoings.

https://www.bbc.co.u...canada-53684033



#1497
Yuli Ban

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A new poll finds Germans largely support US troop removal after Trump's announcement — and want all US nuclear weapons to leave Germany as well

  • A new poll found a plurality of Germans supporting a reduction in the number of US troops based in Germany.
  • The Trump administration last week announced plans to remove nearly 12,000 US troops from Germany "within weeks."
  • President Donald Trump said he was removing the troops because Germany didn't spend enough money on its defense.
  • Allies of Chancellor Angela Merkel reacted angrily to the move amid tension between Berlin and Washington.
  • The YouGov poll, however, found more Germans supporting a reduction in troops, by 47% to 32%.
  • A majority in the same poll supported the removal of US atomic bombs from Germany.

And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#1498
Yuli Ban

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Canadian dies after being held in U.S. immigration detention centre with COVID-19 outbreak

A 72-year-old Canadian has died in hospital after he was held for nearly three months in a U.S. immigration detention centre that had a major COVID-19 outbreak.
 
James Hill had been in custody at the privately run detention centre in Virginia operated on behalf of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Farmville Detention Center has made headlines because hundreds of detainees have been infected with the novel coronavirus, amid complaints of overcrowding and poor sanitation.
 
Mr. Hill was scheduled to fly to Canada on July 9, but just days before the flight, he had to be hospitalized with COVID-19 symptoms.

A former physician in Louisiana, he was waiting to be deported after serving a 12-year sentence for writing Oxycontin prescriptions without seeing patients.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#1499
caltrek

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Mitch McConnell Wants to Give Nursing Home Owners Legal Immunity Against Covid-19 Related Negligence Law Suits

 

https://www.motherjo...cans-mcconnell/

 

Introduction:

(Mother Jones) For months, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has upheld an ultimatum about passing new COVID-19 relief legislation this summer: No economic stabilization package will pass the Senate unless it protects businesses from coronavirus-related lawsuits. “We need to provide protection, litigation protection, for those who have been on the front lines,” McConnell said during a Fox News interview in April. “We have a red line on liability.”

 

Last Monday, a bill introduced by Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) and coauthored by McConnell clarified exactly which front lines Senate Republicans are interested in defending. The proposal, titled the Safe to Work Act, would make it harder for workers and customers to sue companies for negligently exposing them to the coronavirus and raises the bar for patients to sue healthcare providers for coronavirus-related malpractice. It also extends “front line” protections to healthcare executives, including nursing home owners, until 2024.

As negotiations over the coronavirus relief package stall, in part due to McConnell’s red line, experts on elder law and advocates for nursing home residents are alarmed that the Republicans’ proposed immunity shield could destroy what little accountability there is for nursing homes at a time when they’ve become deadly hotspots of COVID-19. According to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid services, more than 40,000 people living in skilled-nursing facilities have died of the coronavirus—more than one quarter of all deaths from the illness. Those deaths represent around 1 in 32 of the country’s 1.3 million nursing home residents, though that is likely an undercount due to incomplete data.

 

Nursing home industry representatives have argued that a liability shield is necessary to protect providers’ ability to make difficult decisions in an emergency situation. “Subjecting health care workers and facilities to onerous litigation even as they have done their level best to combat a virus about which very little was known when it arrived in the United States would divert important health care resources from hospitals and providers to courtrooms,” the bill reads.

 

Yet by making liability lawsuits all but impossible, experts warn that corporate owners would not only be protected from claims of mismanaging their response to COVID-19, they would be free to pursue the kinds of cost-cutting that could endanger their vulnerable residents.

 


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls






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