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Poll: PRC vs. USA (45 member(s) have cast votes)

When will China surpass the USA?

  1. 2018-2024 (15 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. 2025-2029 (17 votes [37.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.78%

  3. Voted After 2030 (10 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  4. Never (3 votes [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1321
Bowman12

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Usually, as authoritarian states begin to fragment, it is the areas on the periphery that are first affected. After all, they are the ones located at the limits of control and where instability under repressive regimes is most visible. The fall of the Berlin Wall marked the beginning of the Soviet Union’s internal collapse. And it can be said that the protests in Hong Kong mark the beginning of Communist China’s internal collapse.



#1322
Yuli Ban

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^ That, however, we can't know. China isn't exactly like the USSR, and there are peculiarities to their regime that you don't see with certain other authoritarian states. As such, I very strongly discourage attempts to say that this is it, that this is the moment that will undo China.

After all, need I post the near 3-decade-long list of "hard landing" predictions?


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#1323
Erowind

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Mainland China has a very large and influential middle class. Just as in other imperial cores the middle class act as a buffer between the rich and the poor preventing both the middle class and the poor from realizing they are exploited by the rich. Both the middle class and poor are working class but the illusion of a "middle class" gives something for the poor to strive towards instead of developing class consciousness. It also makes the middle class workers think their interests are aligned with the rich as status quo property relations maintain the middle class. As long as economic growth in Mainland China continues to create mobility between the poorest workers and the faux middle class there will be no revolution in Mainland China. 

 

Unlike America Mainland China's middle class is growing and China's institutions, corporate or otherwise, are built around maintaining and supporting that growth. Hong Kong is unique in that it's never truly been a part of mainland China since colonial days and I'd argue that revolution in Hong Kong will not spread or even have bearing on revolution within Mainland China at this time. Like most other imperial capitalist states I'd argue that societal breakdown, collapse and revolution will not truly manifest until climate crisis and or world economic crisis force it. 

 

Make no mistake, Beijing does want full control of Hong Kong but not because the people of Hong Kong are a threat. They want control for the same reason any empire wants control, to consolidate and integrate their holdings into the empire. None of this is to say I support China, but I don't think it's true to suggest China is collapsing on the grounds of Hong Kong or even Uighur concentration camps. Both of these events are symptoms of an empire consolidating itself, not collapse. 



#1324
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​Chinese Riot Police Fire Tear Gas and Beat Up Protesters in Guangdong Province

 

 

Riot police have fired teargas and beaten residents in southern China after they took to the streets to protest against a local construction project.

 
Hundreds of residents in Wenlou, a township in Guangdong province about 60 miles from Hong Kong, protested on Friday against plans for a large crematorium in an area officials had previously said would become an “ecological park”.
 
Footage recorded by residents appeared to show riot police firing teargas, throwing rocks and beating protesters. Videos also showed residents throwing firecrackers at the police and tipping over a car. One protester was seen holding a sign that read “The people of Wenlou do not agree”.
 
“The whole town is protesting. The government has violently deployed people to suppress it,” said one resident, who asked not to be named, adding that police had beaten elderly residents and young students. “Now police are like crazy dogs, beating whoever they see. Where is the law? Where is morality?”

 

https://www.theguard...ngdong-province

 

Unrest is building up inside Mainland China. And when the Chinese people see Hong Kongers successfully pushing back against CCP influence, that inspires them to act on their own grievances. Considering that China heavily censors protests and tries to portray an image of stability, it's quite likely that unrest is already much more serious and widespread than it appears. Protests against economic or social issues such as this inevitably become political, and this frightens the central government.



#1325
Jessica

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China suspends R&R visits by US warships over Hong Kong bill

Source: Agence France-Presse


AFP, Beijing
Monday, 2 December 2019
Last Update: Monday, 2 December 2019 KSA 10:56 - GMT 07:56


China said Monday it had suspended rest and recuperation visits by American warships in Hong Kong in response to a US bill supporting pro-democracy protesters in the semi-autonomous city.

“In response to the unreasonable behavior of the US side, the Chinese government has decided to suspend reviewing the applications for US warships to go to Hong Kong for recuperation as of today,” foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said at a regular press briefing.

China also said it would impose sanctions on US-based NGOs that have acted “badly” over the recent unrest in Hong Kong.

The sanctions will apply to NGOs including the National Endowment for Democracy, Human Rights Watch and Freedom House, foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said at a regular press briefing.

 

Read more: http://english.alara...-Kong-bill.html



#1326
Bowman12

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The CCP's greatest fear is coming true: unrest from Hong Kong is spreading into the Mainland.

 

Hong Kong Democracy Slogans Heard at Mainland Chinese Protest

 

 

Slogans of Hong Kong’s democratic movement have been reportedly heard at protests in a Chinese city 60 miles to the west.

 
According to Hong Kong-based Apple Daily—a vocal supporter of the democracy campaign in Hong Kong—chants of “Liberate Maoming! Revolution of our times!” were heard during several days of protest in Maoming.
 
The chant is a take on the “Liberate Hong Kong” slogan commonly used during protests across the border, where anti-government demonstrations have raged since June.
 
Protestors also reportedly told Apple Daily reporters that their movement was “just like you [in] Hong Kong.” Both cities share a common Cantonese language.

 

https://time.com/574...test-hong-kong/



#1327
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More info, including videos from locals that have escaped the Great Firewall:

 

Protesters Within China Defy Communists: ‘Just Like You, Hong Kong’

 

 

Protesters in southern Guangdong province, China, took to the streets last week to demand the communist government not build a polluting crematorium near their town, adopting slogans common to the Hong Kong protest movement, Time magazine noted on Monday.

 
The Hong Kong newspaper Apple Daily, which openly supports the anti-communist movement, reported the use of slogans such as “revolution of our times,” which China considers seditious hate speech, and “just like you, Hong Kong!” in Guangdong. As China heavily censors coverage of the Hong Kong protests and bans all statements of support from the few permitted social media sites in the country, the adoption of the Hong Kong movement’s slogans and tactics is a sign that people within Communist China are informing themselves regarding the protests through unapproved means.
 
The presence of support for the Hong Kong pro-democracy movement within China may signal greater problems ahead for the Communist Party, which spent much of 2018 crushing dissent from its Maoist ranks who see dictator Xi Jinping as too repressive of the proletariat and deviant from communist orthodoxy.

 

https://www.breitbar...-you-hong-kong/



#1328
Erowind

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https://www.breitbar...-you-hong-kong/

 
Breitbart is not a reputable source. It is an alt-right news outlet that has churned out propaganda prolifically at least since the last election cycle. It's former executive chairmen Steve Bannon is responsible for Cambridge Analytica (CA) which still hasn't been taken seriously despite very probably rigging the 2016 election through AI powered targeted propaganda. We know that he did it, and we know CA had a large impact on voters and it's reasonable to say the election was rigged given how close of margin Trump won by and yet here we are holding an impeachment query based on some irrelevant Ukrainian scandal, I digress.
 
/\ God if it wasn't for how turbulent the past 4 years have been this would sound insane. 
 
On the twitter videos themselves what I see are a crowd of people no where near the claimed number of thousands at dubious camera angles where I can't see the whole crowd. China has had labour disputes, peasant disputes and civil unrest for decades like most other countries there is nothing in that article to imply a connection to Hong Kong or anything out of the ordinary. All of the text both from the article itself and the twitter accounts the article quotes is suspect because it's Breitbart. There is no way for me to tell that alt-right shills didn't create those twitter accounts. The camera angle argument is valid too, when there is substantive civil unrest there will be better footage of it regardless of government conditions barring the most totalitarian countries like the DPRK. If whole Mainland Chinese cities were rising up I'd expect scenes like we've seen in Lebanon or Chile this fall, not videos of a few hundred people, or worse, a few dozen in the worst of the videos. 
 
Edit: On that note Time's reporting is suspect too. Where are images of these massive protests Time? Where? Also Apple Daily is a self ascribed "pro-democracy" anti-communist news outlet. Of course Apple Daily is going to say "reportedly mainland Chinese protesters told us this thing, reportedly." Apple daily is owned by Next Digital a company known for its sensationalist tabloids that trend chase. There is no journalism here by Apple Daily, Time or alt-right propagandists. 
 
Double Edit: On that Guardian article. Notice how The Guardian accurately claims that "Hundreds of residents in Wenlou township were protesting against construction of large crematorium" and "Small-scale protests against projects such as incinerators, chemical plants or crematoriums are not uncommon in China’s more rural areas. But the Wenlou demonstrations come at a time when authorities are especially sensitive to the possibility of protests spreading from nearby Hong Kong, where anti-government protests are now in their sixth month."

 

They've still got their anti-CPC western bias thing going trying to connect the two events without substantive evidence but at least they have the integrity not to exaggerate the number of demonstrators or claim that they were demonstrating in solidarity with HK based on hearsay from Apple News. They've also accurately pointed out that small scale unrest like this is routine in Mainland China. 



#1329
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China to build space-based solar power station by 2035
 
2019-12-02 10:04:20
 
XIAMEN, Dec. 2 (Xinhua) -- China plans to accomplish a 200-tonne megawatt-level space-based solar power station by 2035, according to the China Academy of Space Technology (CAST).
 
The space-based solar power station would capture the sun's energy that never makes it to the planet, said Wang Li, a CAST research fellow with the program, when attending the sixth China-Russia Engineering Forum held last week in Xiamen, southeast China's Fujian Province.
 
The energy is converted to microwaves or lasers and then beamed wirelessly back to the Earth's surface for human consumption, Wang said.
 
"We hope to strengthen international cooperation and make scientific and technological breakthroughs so that humankind can achieve the dream of limitless clean energy at an early date," Wang said.
 
Compared with traditional fossil energy, which has been increasingly exhausted and is responsible for severe environmental issues, space-based solar power is more efficient and sustainable, providing a reliable power supply solution for satellites and disaster-hit areas or isolated areas on the Earth, Wang said.
 


#1330
Yuli Ban

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China uses DNA to map faces, with help from the West

In a dusty city in the Xinjiang region on China’s western frontier, the authorities are testing the rules of science.


With a million or more ethnic Uighurs and others from predominantly Muslim minority groups swept up in detentions across Xinjiang, officials in Tumxuk have gathered blood samples from hundreds of Uighurs — part of a mass DNA collection effort dogged by questions about consent and how the data will be used.
In Tumxuk, at least, there is a partial answer: Chinese scientists are trying to find a way to use a DNA sample to create an image of a person’s face.
The technology, which is also being developed in the United States and elsewhere, is in the early stages of development and can produce rough pictures good enough only to narrow a manhunt or perhaps eliminate suspects. But given the crackdown in Xinjiang, experts on ethics in science worry that China is building a tool that could be used to justify and intensify racial profiling and other state discrimination against Uighurs.

In the long term, experts say, it may even be possible for the Communist government to feed images produced from a DNA sample into the mass surveillance and facial recognition systems that it is building, tightening its grip on society by improving its ability to track dissidents and protesters as well as criminals.
Some of this research is taking place in labs run by China’s Ministry of Public Security, and at least two Chinese scientists working with the ministry on the technology have received funding from respected institutions in Europe. International scientific journals have published their findings without examining the origin of the DNA used in the studies or vetting the ethical questions raised by collecting such samples in Xinjiang.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#1331
10 year march

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I posted this video in another thread today.

China is undoubtedly a capitalist country now

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=vKFr1IP1TQQ

#1332
Yuli Ban

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Logiman43

China IS Nazi Germany of the XXI century

China's crimes against Uyghurs:


What can YOU do? Disclaimer! This is my own research as of 27th November 2019. You will see a lot of redditors trying to discredit the below numbers - fine, all of us have a voice. But remember I'm just one guy against a propaganda machine. Read the sources, make your own mind, if I made a mistake please write to me and I will correct it. It is though to get hard data but think about what would it take for you to believe? Will it take photographs of dead bodies piled on top of each other? Or satellite footage of chimney stacks spewing the smoky remains of gassed people? Nazi propaganda pre and during WWII against the Holocaust

And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#1333
10 year march

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Usually, as authoritarian states begin to fragment, it is the areas on the periphery that are first affected. After all, they are the ones located at the limits of control and where instability under repressive regimes is most visible. The fall of the Berlin Wall marked the beginning of the Soviet Union’s internal collapse. And it can be said that the protests in Hong Kong mark the beginning of Communist China’s internal collapse.

The ussr was actually illegally dissolved going against a referendum result. The people in power wanted the ussr to collapse.

The USSR begun a slow destruction after kruschev lead a coup against the Marxists after Stalins death and re introduced small market reforms.

Whist capitalist China wants the one party state to remain

#1334
10 year march

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Usually, as authoritarian states begin to fragment, it is the areas on the periphery that are first affected. After all, they are the ones located at the limits of control and where instability under repressive regimes is most visible. The fall of the Berlin Wall marked the beginning of the Soviet Union’s internal collapse. And it can be said that the protests in Hong Kong mark the beginning of Communist China’s internal collapse.

the ussr was run by Liberals who were deliberately collapsing the USSR they infact dissolved the union after a referendum result showed people wanted the union to continue they also banned the communist party and stopped a revolution in 1993 where people were trying to bring back the union.

Whist China is capitalist they don't want to dissolve the state.

#1335
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China posts weakest growth in 29 years as trade war bites, but ends 2019 on better note
 
JANUARY 16, 2020 / 11:33 PM / UPDATED 13 MINUTES AGO
 
BEIJING (Reuters) - China’s economic growth cooled to its weakest in nearly 30 years in 2019 amid a bruising trade war with the United States, and more stimulus is expected this year as Beijing tries to boost sluggish investment and demand.
 
But data on Friday also showed the world’s second-largest economy ended the rough year on a somewhat firmer note as a trade truce revived business confidence and earlier growth boosting measures finally appeared to be taking hold.
 
As expected, China’s growth slowed to 6.1% last year, from 6.6% in 2018, data from the National Bureau of Statistics showed. Though still strong by global standards, and within the government’s target range, it was the weakest expansion since 1990.
 
This year is crucial for the ruling Communist Party to fulfill its goal of doubling gross domestic product (GDP) and incomes in the decade to 2020, and turning China into a “moderately prosperous” nation.
 
Analysts reckon that long-term target would need growth this year to remain around 6%, though top officials have warned the economy may face even greater pressure than in 2019.
 


#1336
Cyber_Rebel

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Almost seems like Trump's trade war was some last ditch effort to curb Chinese growth in general, no matter the risk to American consumers. A "very" dumb TPP, since that in itself was the true motive of said trade deal; China containment. 

 

On another disturbing note, is China truly a Fascist state then? The first high tech 21st century version... It's far more (state) capitalist one party style president for life dictatorship, along with the extreme state propaganda, Chinese ethnic nationalism, brutality towards minority groups, and 1984 levels of totalitarian control over its people. 

 

True socialist would do well to condemn China, or the so called "socialism with Chinese characteristics," even if I myself have in the past lauded some of their big state initiatives (Silk Road & other big infrastructure projects) not to mention bringing many out of poverty. How can one not objectively praise China's national achievements? Am I a Fascist for doing so? It's really just sad that they couldn't simply uplift their country while not oppressing other people. Red Fascism, I think truly must be recognized as such.



#1337
caltrek

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China is closing gap with United States on research spending

 

https://www.nature.c...586-020-00084-7

 

Introduction:

 

(Nature) The gap in research and development (R&D) funding between the United States and China is closing fast, despite modest increases in US funding since 2000, according to statistics assembled by the US National Science Foundation (NSF).

 

The United States is increasingly “seen globally as an important leader rather than the uncontested leader” in science and engineering, the agency said in the latest edition of its biennial Science and Engineering Indicators report, which compiles metrics on the state of science and engineering in the country.

 

From 2000 to 2017, R&D spending in the United States grew at an average of 4.3% per year, found the report, which the NSF released on 15 January. But spending in China grew by more than 17% per year during the same period. Several other countries, including Germany and South Korea, also increased their spending at rates that outstripped that of the United States, but they remain solidly behind the two global leaders in terms of total funding. The United States accounted for 25% of the US$2.2 trillion spent on R&D worldwide in 2017, and China made up 23%.

 

Preliminary data from 2019 suggest that China has already surpassed the United States in R&D spending, said Julia Philips, chair of the National Science Board’s science and engineering policy committee, during a press briefing. The board oversees the NSF and produces the Indicators reports.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#1338
caltrek

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I am posting this article here instead of the disease and outbreak thread because of the implications that it has for further severing ties between the U.S. and China.  Indeed, between China and the rest of the world

 

Americans Are Getting Evacuated from China because of the Coronavirus

 

https://www.motherjo...he-coronavirus/

 

 

(Mother Jones) American diplomats and their families are getting evacuated from Wuhan, China, which has become the epicenter of an outbreak of the deadly coronavirus. In an effort to contain the epidemic, Chinese authorities have nearly completely cut off this city of 11 million from the rest of China, with all transportation and other points of access shut down. But American authorities have told The Wall Street Journal and CNN, that a chartered flight is being arranged to transport approximately 36 diplomats and their families. All other Americans in Wuhan are being encouraged to apply for one of the seats on the flight and pay for the cost of the transport. 

 

The Wall Street Journal reported:

 

One reason U.S. diplomats were keen to organize such an operation was a concern that anyone suspected of coming down with the illness could find themselves in a quarantine of indefinite length, likely with no access to consular assistance, one of the people familiar with the matter said. Many foreigners who live in China use Western doctors at private clinics instead of the country’s government-run hospitals, but their services may not be available during the outbreak.

 

The virus has already killed 41 people, and China estimates that there are now more than 1,300 cases on the mainland. New cases have already appeared throughout the world, including two in the US, leading to concern among infectious disease specialists the epidemic should be contained as much as possible, with screening at airports of certain incoming flights. 


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#1339
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Almost seems like Trump's trade war was some last ditch effort to curb Chinese growth in general, no matter the risk to American consumers. A "very" dumb TPP, since that in itself was the true motive of said trade deal; China containment.

On another disturbing note, is China truly a Fascist state then? The first high tech 21st century version... It's far more (state) capitalist one party style president for life dictatorship, along with the extreme state propaganda, Chinese ethnic nationalism, brutality towards minority groups, and 1984 levels of totalitarian control over its people.

True socialist would do well to condemn China, or the so called "socialism with Chinese characteristics," even if I myself have in the past lauded some of their big state initiatives (Silk Road & other big infrastructure projects) not to mention bringing many out of poverty. How can one not objectively praise China's national achievements? Am I a Fascist for doing so? It's really just sad that they couldn't simply uplift their country while not oppressing other people. Red Fascism, I think truly must be recognized as such.

China seems like a one party social democracy

A example of a social democrat is the British Labour Party, China is decently left of Labour tho.

Social Democrats grant concessions for workers within the confines of capitalism and partake in capitalisms imperialism extracting wealth from countries such as those in the third world to pay for concessions under capitalism for there own workers.

#1340
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China’s yearly growth rate could fall below 2%, economist warns

Tue, Feb 4 20206:37 AM EST

China’s economy could grow by less than 2% year-over-year, according to Pantheon Macroeconomics Chief Asia Economist Freya Beamish.

China said at the end of Monday that cases of the new coronavirus on the mainland have now surpassed 20,400 with a total of 425 deaths.

The rapid spread of the virus has sparked concern over the potential fallout for the world’s second-largest economy, with businesses beginning to feel the impact from falling demand and the shutdown of huge swathes of the country, many of which serve as economic engine rooms.

Speaking to CNBC’s “Squawk Box Europe” on Tuesday, Beamish said that China could be facing a quarter-on-quarter contraction in GDP (gross domestic product) for the first quarter, once the repercussions of shutdowns and an already slowing economy are factored into projections.

The 24 provinces, municipalities and regions which have told businesses to cease operating until at least February 10 accounted for over 80% of national GDP and 90% of exports last year, according to CNBC calculations of data accessed through Wind Information.

https://www.cnbc.com...mist-warns.html







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