Jump to content

Welcome to FutureTimeline.forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Chinese researchers announce designer baby breakthrough

China designer baby CRISPR 2017 embryonic augmentation perfect human eugenics genetics transhumanism genetic engineering

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1
Yuli Ban

Yuli Ban

    Born Again Singularitarian

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,416 posts
  • LocationNew Orleans, LA

Chinese researchers announce designer baby breakthrough

Science has taken another step toward delivering the perfect newborn – or at least a bouncing baby free of certain genetic defects.
Chinese researchers used a genome editing technique called CRISPR to rid normal embryos of hereditary diseases that cause blood disorders and other ailments, according to New Scientist. Experts who reviewed the project told the publication that, even though it involved just six embryos, it carries promise.
“It is encouraging,” Robin Lovell-Badge, a human genome expert at the Francis Crick Institute in London, told New Scientist.
The acronym stands for “Clustered Regularly-Interspaced Short Palindromic Repeats,” and the technique is a method of disabling genes by introducing small mutations that disrupt the code of a DNA sequence. Prior to the Chinese experiment, studies involving the CRISPR technique have focused on its use in abnormal embryos that could never fully develop. For bioethics reasons, it was not previously used on healthy, or normal embryos.

Is that a phone I hear?

 

I said so


  • Casey likes this

And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#2
caltrek

caltrek

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,218 posts

 

Chinese researchers announce designer baby breakthrough

Science has taken another step toward delivering the perfect newborn – or at least a bouncing baby free of certain genetic defects.
Chinese researchers used a genome editing technique called CRISPR to rid normal embryos of hereditary diseases that cause blood disorders and other ailments, according to New Scientist. Experts who reviewed the project told the publication that, even though it involved just six embryos, it carries promise.
“It is encouraging,” Robin Lovell-Badge, a human genome expert at the Francis Crick Institute in London, told New Scientist.
The acronym stands for “Clustered Regularly-Interspaced Short Palindromic Repeats,” and the technique is a method of disabling genes by introducing small mutations that disrupt the code of a DNA sequence. Prior to the Chinese experiment, studies involving the CRISPR technique have focused on its use in abnormal embryos that could never fully develop. For bioethics reasons, it was not previously used on healthy, or normal embryos.

Is that a phone I hear?

 

I said so

 

 

Yes, but there are liable to be numerous accidents resulting in children with birth defects.  Certainly less than random mutations, but more than zero.  This renders this process ethically dubious. That the Chinese scientists couldn't care two hoots about ethics is beside the point.

 

It reminds me of all the rumors floating around the internet about pills that are supposed to make you smarter.  Folks like Trump may very well be taking such pills.  Doesn't make them smarter.  Only makes the think that they are smarter.  Sure, some day some Chinese baby might have an IQ that puts Einstein to shame. What will be his ethical upbringing?

 

Probably less than optimum given how he came into being.  Not his fault, but the fault of his progenitors and "parents".  

 

Who, then, will be the "superior" being?

 

The super-smart ethically challenged monster?

 

....or the somewhat less intelligent but more totally human "normal" person?

 

Who will lead their nation to greater level of nationalist glory?

 

Who cares? 


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#3
wjfox

wjfox

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,249 posts
  • LocationLondon

Just a suggestion – but next time, maybe post the original New Scientist article, rather than Fox News (?).


  • Yuli Ban, caltrek and Erowind like this

#4
Roh234

Roh234

    Capitalism is the only way to survive.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,017 posts
  • Location11 Dimentional Hyperspace

 

Chinese researchers announce designer baby breakthrough

Science has taken another step toward delivering the perfect newborn – or at least a bouncing baby free of certain genetic defects.
Chinese researchers used a genome editing technique called CRISPR to rid normal embryos of hereditary diseases that cause blood disorders and other ailments, according to New Scientist. Experts who reviewed the project told the publication that, even though it involved just six embryos, it carries promise.
“It is encouraging,” Robin Lovell-Badge, a human genome expert at the Francis Crick Institute in London, told New Scientist.
The acronym stands for “Clustered Regularly-Interspaced Short Palindromic Repeats,” and the technique is a method of disabling genes by introducing small mutations that disrupt the code of a DNA sequence. Prior to the Chinese experiment, studies involving the CRISPR technique have focused on its use in abnormal embryos that could never fully develop. For bioethics reasons, it was not previously used on healthy, or normal embryos.

Is that a phone I hear?

 

I said so

 

 

Which is why the ban on Human Genetic Engineering is shooting ourselves in the foot. If we don't have the political willpower to allow Manhattan style projects on working on mass editing the Human Genome, none of us will be alive to to receive indefinite life expansion. I'm just hoping in the future some corporation that doesn't give a shit has a secret lab somewhere in Bumfuck,Nowhere that I can get employment there and work on such a project.

 

I'll post a detailed analysis of the paper once I reach home. This is likely hype.


What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#5
caltrek

caltrek

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,218 posts

 

 

Which is why the ban on Human Genetic Engineering is shooting ourselves in the foot

 

Why don't we continue to map and further describe the damn thing first before throwing soldering into the joints in the hopes that we build a better transistor/mouse trap/whatever first?

 

Of course, use of therapies first tested on primates and other mammals are one way of learning more about the DNA architecture.

 

No, I am not suggesting we try to make monkeys "smarter".


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#6
Roh234

Roh234

    Capitalism is the only way to survive.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,017 posts
  • Location11 Dimentional Hyperspace
We have the tools to figure out the whole thing. It will take a dedicated facility a decade or two of course but it can be done assuming no technology growth. And there are already many point mutations we can work this on

What is true, just, and beautiful is not determined by popular vote. The masses everywhere are ignorant, short-sighted, motivated by envy, and easy to fool. Democratic politicians must appeal to these masses in order to be elected. Whoever is the best demagogue will win. Almost by necessity, then, democracy will lead to the perversion of truth, justice and beauty. -Hans Hermann Hoppe


#7
Sciencerocks

Sciencerocks

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,312 posts

I think this is wonderful news! I think it is the moral thing to do as having cancer, having a low iq, or something else is just wrong when you can fix the problem.


  • Casey, Maximus and funkervogt like this

#8
funkervogt

funkervogt

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

I think this is wonderful news! I think it is the moral thing to do as having cancer, having a low iq, or something else is just wrong when you can fix the problem.

Exactly. It's easy to philosophize about the "value" of genetic defects that cause cancer, disability or mental illness and to pontificate about how they enrich the human experience when you're not affected by those problems and human genetic engineering is still a distant fantasy. Once it becomes a reality, the debate will quickly evaporate. 


  • Sciencerocks, Casey and Yuli Ban like this

#9
Alislaws

Alislaws

    Democratic Socialist Materialist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,883 posts
  • LocationLondon

While removing a genetic predisposition towards cancer is a no brainer, what about making your child taller or shorter, or more intelligent, or more athletic.

 

Is it okay, to engineer your children to all be perfect athletes, then retire once they turn eighteen and start making you millions?

If that sounds fine to you would it be okay to design your child to grow up to look like a perfect pornstar and profit from them that way?

 

I'm aware that jobs where someone's genetics play a big factor will probably change a lot once anyone who's parents paid for it can be Usain Bolt levels of quick or supermodel beautiful but are we going to hit a situation where everyone is born closer and closer to some "perfect" person (the best combination of genes we can currently figure out)

 

Otherwise if you're a kid born "natural" sitting in a class where everyone around you is a foot taller than you, dramatically better looking, stronger, healthier, happier, and more intelligent, that's going to be an intensely miserable childhood. As a parent can you really put your child in that position? I can imagine the TV ads warning parents that by refusing to engineer their kid (for only $19,999.99) they're setting them up for high school hell.

 

I would be much more comfortable with this technology if we were able to figure out how to edit the genomes of adults and then for non-medical interventions they can just wait till you're eighteen (or maybe younger with parental permission and legal oversight or something?).


  • rennerpetey likes this

#10
Yuli Ban

Yuli Ban

    Born Again Singularitarian

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,416 posts
  • LocationNew Orleans, LA

My philosophy on this is that I don't care what people engineer their children to be (don't misconstrue that to say I condone creating sex slave designer babies). But I do care about engineering better humans. I'd love nothing more than to create a species of human with more of our positives and fewer of our negatives. Many of these negatives were once positives when we lived in jungles and savannas and only ever interacted with a handful of other humans, but they have no place in an advanced global (and eventually interplanetary) civilization. Greater logic, greater emotional intelligence, greater empathy to understand that other humans— regardless of what they look like or where they come from or what they believe— are still humans like you, greater capabilities in art and the sciences, that's all I want. People who are against those things tend to defend their arguments by claiming that our negative traits and occasional lack of empathy is what makes us human. And I say "It's what makes us human, but that doesn't mean it defines everything it means to be human." We weren't always the only human species, and we don't have to remain the only one forever.


  • Casey likes this

And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#11
funkervogt

funkervogt

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Hitler was a "natural human." That doesn't mean the world is missing out on anything now that he's gone. 



#12
Alislaws

Alislaws

    Democratic Socialist Materialist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,883 posts
  • LocationLondon

I don't really believe in any inherent superiority of "natural" humans, my worry is around the lack of viability of natural humans in a world filled with enhanced humans, especially because the best designer babies will probably cost more $. This allows inequality to increase and entrench itself even further. 

 

 

Humans have a huge amount of psychological baggage around our "race", culture and history, which informs a lot of who we are. 

Imagine how bad our problems with racism could get if we end up with some nations made of genetically enhanced superhumans, and some nations not. We're setting up a situation where full blown Nazi style nationalism makes a huge comeback. 

 

And of course it allows for a much more socially acceptable method to commit genocide (although it is slower than traditional methods).



#13
funkervogt

funkervogt

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

Imagine how bad our problems with racism could get if we end up with some nations made of genetically enhanced superhumans, and some nations not. We're setting up a situation where full blown Nazi style nationalism makes a huge comeback. 

That scenario is highly unlikely for more than one reason. 

 

According to various alarmists, the Nazis have been perpetually poised for a "comeback" since 1945. And yet it never happens. 



#14
Alislaws

Alislaws

    Democratic Socialist Materialist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,883 posts
  • LocationLondon

 

That scenario is highly unlikely for more than one reason. 

More than one? That's the discussion over I guess! /s

 

 

According to various alarmists, the Nazis have been perpetually poised for a "comeback" since 1945. And yet it never happens. 

The Nazis philosphy was based on the idea that Aryan's were superior to other sorts of people, and therefore what they did to "untermensch" (for example: invading their countries, rounding them up into camps and murdering them by the millions) was ok. 

 

This is what I meant by Nazi style nationalism. I.e. the belief that your race or ethnic group is superior to all others, and therefore you do not need to treat other peoples with basic respect or decency, because they are inferior and are holding humanity back, or not members of humanity at all, depending on how extreme the ideology is.  

 

(There are many types of nationalism, more commonly today it refers to nation states rather than ethnic groups, and focuses around loyalty to country or government etc. which is why I felt I should use the "Nazis style nationalism" as a commonly understood reference, to that form of large scale racism)

 

There would also likely be a big divide between the more developed nations and less developed nations in terms of their use of these engineering techniques, both for financial reasons and because religious organisations tend to be more influential in countries with lower education levels, and they will probably be the people with biggest issues with "playing god" like this.

 

You really can't see why having nations of people where every person is provably superior in numerous ways to the people in another nation might increase issues with racism? Given that there are not really a lot of concrete differences now, and we still have racist violence occurring in almost every nation on earth?



#15
funkervogt

funkervogt

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts

As I said, that scenario is highly unlikely for more than one reason. 

 

For one thing, it's going to be a LONG time before even 10% of any country's population is genetically engineered in ways that make them demonstrably superior to the general population. 

 

For another, it's likely that AI and robots will surpass humans in terms of intellect and many other characteristics before any country reaches that 10% genetically engineered threshold. 

 

It will be hard to indulge in Nazi-style thinking when your people are superior to Country X's people, but machines are superior to all humans, including you.



#16
Alislaws

Alislaws

    Democratic Socialist Materialist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,883 posts
  • LocationLondon

That's fair, I have been looking at this in the context of today's world, which is obviously a bit silly, as this won't really kick off for decades.

 

If anything can overcome people's habit of being terrible to each other with very little reason its a common enemy!

 

Maybe the rise of machines will provide that for us, or perhaps change where we draw lines between us to where "pro-machine" or "anti-machine" become more important than any divisions we worry about today.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: China, designer baby, CRISPR, 2017, embryonic augmentation, perfect human, eugenics, genetics, transhumanism, genetic engineering

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users