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Kurdistan Watch Thread

Kurdistan Iraq Syria Turkey Middle East separatism

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#21
Yuli Ban

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I don't really think the Kurds could incite a global revolution against Capitalism and the state. This isn't the great depression, a lot of people are happy with the current governments they live in and those who aren't happy with the current government (specifically democrats) don't want an anarchistic system, they just want a different government.

 

 

I wasn't talking about the developed world. If you think the majority of the populations of third world and developing countries are happy with their governments I encourage you to go to one and ask someone from the local working class what they think. Have you ever noticed that all these massive protests, strikes and riots mostly happen in undeveloped/developing countries? This would start in the countries that us westerners generally don't pay attention to, if allowed to brew long enough, larger developing nations would start feeling the effects. Imagine the effects of revolution in a country like India, 100s of millions of people live in poverty and already hate their government. They recently held the largest strike in human history.   https://en.wikipedia..._strike_of_2016

 

Don't expect change to come from these cushy precariat nations, it's always the slaves that strike back first!

 

I don't expect anarchism at first per say, but the 21st century is prime for a resurgence of socialism and I feel that this time it might be democratic in nature, which would ultimately lead to anarchic forms of communism, hopefully with a large amount of automation.

 

Yes I understand, but I don't see why the people in the 1st World countries which are happy with their lives would want to join this rebellion? Sure the people of the poor nations might want to, but if people are happy with their lives and their current government then I don't think they would revolt.

 

Well here's the thing: much of what we enjoy is made in the third world. If the third world revolts, there goes our comfy life. Whatever isn't completely taken away from us will instead have their prices jacked by an order of magnitude. All of a sudden, a huge swath of the population is plunged into poverty without having changed their station in life.

 

We're only three square meals away from anarchy. 


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#22
Yuli Ban

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'Yes' to Kurdistan: 92 Percent of Iraq's Kurds Voted for Independence

Iraq's Kurds have voted to create an independent state, the High Elections and Referendum Commission said on Wednesday, in a referendum that has angered the Baghdad government and regional powers Turkey and Iran. 
More than 92 percent of voters voted in favor of independence, the electoral commission announced. 
The official results come a day after Iraqi Kurdish leader Masoud Barzani declared victory in the referendum, which the U.S., major European countries and neighbors Turkey and Iran have described as destabilizing.


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#23
Erowind

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Who's ready for a revolutionary war? I fear that the Kurds are going to be up against at least the Iranians, Turkish, Syrians and Iraqis as first. I think they can win if they spread their revolution into these states. If the Kurds in Turkey revolt, followed by revolt in Iran it might buy Rojava enough time to strengthen itself.


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#24
tierbook

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Who's ready for a revolutionary war? I fear that the Kurds are going to be up against at least the Iranians, Turkish, Syrians and Iraqis as first. I think they can win if they spread their revolution into these states. If the Kurds in Turkey revolt, followed by revolt in Iran it might buy Rojava enough time to strengthen itself.

From what I've heard both Saudi Arabia and Jordan are in favor of the Kurds, Israel hates Iran. This might kick off a regional war.


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#25
Sciencerocks

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Who's ready for a revolutionary war? I fear that the Kurds are going to be up against at least the Iranians, Turkish, Syrians and Iraqis as first. I think they can win if they spread their revolution into these states. If the Kurds in Turkey revolt, followed by revolt in Iran it might buy Rojava enough time to strengthen itself.

 

 

Trump needs to support kardistan and confine it to northern Iraq.

 

We need to use our power to make sure the shit doesn't hit the fan.



#26
Yuli Ban

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Trump supporting Kurdistan would be the best (read: worst) possible segue into the official US-Iran War that's been teased for the past 20 years, for the past three seasons of Life on Earth. Lord hopes it's not the plotline that leads to our cancellation— the ratings are up and the ASI's not even been created yet!


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#27
Yuli Ban

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Kurds Back Independence by 92% in Referendum; Iraq May Send Troops

Iraq’s Parliament asked the country’s prime minister on Wednesday to deploy troops to a disputed area held by Kurdish forces, its latest retaliation against a referendum in which the autonomous region voted decisively to seek independence.
The referendum on Monday has roiled the region and prompted a confrontation with the government in Baghdad, which has called the vote illegal and has vowed to ignore the results. The vote has also provoked the Kurdish region’s two powerful neighbors, Turkey and Iran.
Iraq has ordered Kurdish authorities to surrender control of the region’s two international airports or face a shutdown of all international flights starting on Friday. Two airlines — EgyptAir, based in Cairo, and Middle East Airlines, based in Beirut, Lebanon — said on Wednesday that they would suspend flights to and from the Kurdish region beginning on Friday.


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#28
joe00uk

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I honestly don't know what to make of the recent Kurdish events. On the one hand, the Kurdish people do constitute a nation, which is definitely oppressed in the case of Turkey and historically oppressed in the case of Iraq, and I think those who deny this are engaging in chauvinism.

 

On the other hand, imperialism does want to Balkanise the Middle East and the US and Israel are strongly in support of breaking Syria and Iraq into pieces. There are US military bases in Kurdistan even now. One question is, independence under whose leadership, under what circumstances? The Kurds aren't a monolithic bloc, but a class society like any other. A simple 'yes' vote for independence is not inherently democratic; the bourgeoisie used the same to break apart the Soviet Union. A socialist, anti-imperialist Kurdish state could be a step forward, but is that what's going to happen? If so, why are the US and Israel so strongly behind it? And why is the YPG seizing so much Arab territory in Syria if the goal is simply Kurdish self-determination?

 

I hate to say it but I suspect the effect of this is going to be less about emancipation of the Kurdish people and more about strengthening imperialism in the region and weakening those countries not under the control of the American Empire. South Sudan all over again.



#29
Yuli Ban

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Iran shuts down Kurdistan 24 bureau in Tehran following Kurdistan referendum

The Iranian Government on Wednesday shut down the Kurdistan 24 bureau in Tehran, two days after the Kurdistan Region's held its referendum on independence.
The Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance told the Tehran-based Kurdistan 24 bureau that they no longer have permission to work in Iran as a result of the referendum and "current developments" in the Kurdistan Region.

"We are very concerned about the closure of the Kurdistan 24 bureau in Tehran. While our correspondents were doing their job and professionally covering news in the country, they were very restricted by the Iranian government," the General Manager of Kurdistan 24, Noreldin Waisy, said.
"However, the closure of our bureau will not affect Kurdistan 24's coverage of Iran-related news, professionally and objectively," Waisy added.


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#30
Yuli Ban

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Kurdistan referendum could launch velvet revolution in Middle East

In the history of the Middle East, most states in the region were built as a result of war, collapsing empires, or by the grace of colonial powers. From the beginning of the George Bush Doctrine for democracy and the fight against terror until now, all efforts have failed to build sustainable democracy in the region. Instead of modern states, non-state actors and terrorist groups have grown in the area. While this is a real threat to the people living in the region, it also threatens the world’s security.
Why has every attempt to change the Middle East been unsuccessful? Most times, solutions suggested by Western powers have made the situation worse. Research suggests the Western governments’ lack of knowledge of the Middle East’s peoples and their will has contributed to this repeated failure. 
For instance, Thomas Edward Lawrence, the British commander of the Arab revolt, with his knowledge of the local people’s culture and behavior, helped Emir Feisel win against the Turks in World War One. He made it clear the only way to gain victory in this area was to know the essence of the population’s culture and build plans with that knowledge in mind.
However, Western powers tried to bring democracy to the Middle East without being aware of the intricacies of the people’s different ethnicities, religions, and tribal affiliations.


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#31
Yuli Ban

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Iraqi PM gives Kurdistan three days to hand over oil revenue, airports, border-crossings

The Prime Minister of Iraq, Haider al-Abadi, on Tuesday stated that he would not compromise on Iraq’s unity and sovereignty, calling for control over the Kurdistan Region to be handed over.
On Monday, the semi-autonomous Kurdistan Region held a landmark referendum on independence, a move opposed by Baghdad, neighboring countries, and the international community.
In a series of tweets, the Iraqi PM expressed his strong opposition to the referendum, threatening he would take measures against it.
“We will not compromise on Iraq’s unity or sovereignty. Iraq is strong. Some wanted to weaken it. They have miscalculated,” Abadi tweeted on his official account on Tuesday.


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#32
Yuli Ban

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Putin speaks with Erdogan, Rouhani about Kurdistan referendum

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday called his Turkish and Iranian counterparts to discuss the Kurdistan Region’s independence referendum, a Kremlin spokesperson said.
According to Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov, President Putin talked to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Iranian counterpart Hassan Rouhani in separate phone calls about the vote in the Kurdistan Region.
“This issue was discussed during telephone conversations,” Peskov told reporters on Tuesday without providing further details.
The spokesperson explained that Russia’s position regarding Kurdistan’s referendum and ambitions of statehood “has not changed,” adding Moscow wants a unified Iraq.


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#33
Guyverman1990

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Sorry for going slightly off topic, but how do you make text bigger if you want to edit a post?

When you're typing a reply, there is a toolbar at the top. Just click size and choose how big you want it to be.

For some reason it won't let me edit my posts ATM.

#34
Yuli Ban

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Before the Spark Breaks Out in Kurdistan

The severe escalation by the Iraqi central government, Iran and Turkey with the unprecedented siege and threats of starving the Kurds, disregard the fact that Kurds announced earlier that the referendum is not an announcement of independence — it only acknowledges the necessity to move to the next step and to negotiate with Iraq and neighboring states in addition to the international community the conditions of separation, if it happened.
 
Confederation with enhanced conditions and possibly a new version of the current self-ruling which means that Kurds moved on with the referendum after they lost hope in any of the main powers to understand the situation. They moved on with a referendum that enhances their condition and urges European countries to focus on reforming ties between Kurds and the central government.


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#35
Yuli Ban

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Iraqi PM agrees to lift ban on international flights to Kurdistan Region

Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi agreed to lift a ban on international air traffic to the Kurdistan Region on Tuesday, in a decree which said international flights could resume within one week. Kurdish authorities have agreed for Erbil and Sulaimaniyah airports to come under federal control, reporting to Baghdad’s Ministry of Interior, the decree said. International flights to and from the region’s two main airports have been halted since Sept. 29, part of sanctions imposed on the semi-autonomous Kurdistan region after it conducted an independence referendum in defiance of Baghdad’s wishes.
 
Iraq’s Kurds overwhelmingly backed independence from federal Iraq in the Sept. 25 vote.


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#36
Yuli Ban

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Second delegation from Kurdistan Region arrive in Rojava, to go to Afrin

A delegation of different religious groups and political parties from the Kurdistan Region arrived in the Kurdish enclave of Rojava to show their support and solidarity for the embattled city of Afrin.
 
The delegation comprised of delegates from Christians, Yezidis, Zoroastrians and Kakaiys and some political parties including the Kurdistan Communist Party, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, the Kurdistan Toilers Party and Kurdistan Socialist Democratic Party arrived in Qamishlo on Saturday and are planning to go to Afrin as well, Hawar News Agency (ANHA), a media linked to the ruling party in Rojava reported.
 
 
"As the PUK, the Communist party, Kurdistan Socialist Democratic Party and the Kurdistan Toilers Party, have come as political parties... to say the salute of the South [Kurdistan Region] people to the resistance of Afrin," Mohammed Rashid, deputy head of the Kurdistan Veteran Peshmerga Society, told ANHA.
 
"We are proud of the resistance of the YPG and YPJ fighters," he said. "We believe the Kurdish nation will prevail in Afrin, as they did in Kobane."
 
Mamum Salar Caj, a Christian delegate said they were there to support "the resistance of Afrin."


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#37
Yuli Ban

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By the way:

This is Syria in 2015

image.jpg

 

This is PKK-controlled Rojava today

 

1200px-Claimed_and_de_facto_territory_of


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#38
caltrek

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I honestly don't know what to make of the recent Kurdish events. On the one hand, the Kurdish people do constitute a nation, which is definitely oppressed in the case of Turkey and historically oppressed in the case of Iraq, and I think those who deny this are engaging in chauvinism.

 

On the other hand, imperialism does want to Balkanise the Middle East and the US and Israel are strongly in support of breaking Syria and Iraq into pieces. There are US military bases in Kurdistan even now. One question is, independence under whose leadership, under what circumstances? The Kurds aren't a monolithic bloc, but a class society like any other. A simple 'yes' vote for independence is not inherently democratic; the bourgeoisie used the same to break apart the Soviet Union. A socialist, anti-imperialist Kurdish state could be a step forward, but is that what's going to happen? If so, why are the US and Israel so strongly behind it? And why is the YPG seizing so much Arab territory in Syria if the goal is simply Kurdish self-determination?

 

I hate to say it but I suspect the effect of this is going to be less about emancipation of the Kurdish people and more about strengthening imperialism in the region and weakening those countries not under the control of the American Empire. South Sudan all over again.

 

 

I apologize for not responding to this back in September 2017 when it was first posted.  I think Joe00uk is still around, so hopefully he will see this and thus have a chance to respond to my critique.

 

Looking at imperialism as a factor is a good idea. Still, that "imperialism" should not be conceptually confined to just the United States.  Rather, the imperialistic desires of Russia, Turkey and Iran should also be taken into account.  Moreover, the inherent tribalism of that region also needs to be understood.

 

It strikes me as a bit silly to write " imperialism does want to Balkanise the Middle East and the US and Israel are strongly in support of breaking Syria and Iraq into pieces."

 

First, it is not clear, especially in the case of Iraq, that the U.S. is in favor of breaking that country. Second, it is very clear that there are natural differences between southern Iraq and the Kurdish region to the north. Third, to imply that it is "imperialism's" aim to break Iraq apart is especially ironic given the role of British imperialism in combining different regions into the country of Iraq in the first place. 

 

On that third point, it was in 1921 that the imperialist Great Britain was instrumental in forming Iraq as  one country. Previous to that, the area was divided into three provinces under the Ottoman empire. The cities and surrounding regions of Mosul, Baghdad, and Basra differed in their cultural orientations, yet outsiders decided it was fit that they be thrown together into one country. 

 

If imperialism "wants" to balkanise the area, it is because of the imperialist ambitions of the many countries that are playing a role in the region.  These countries include (and this is not a comprehensive list) Turkey, Russia, and Iran as well as the United States and it allies.  Each supports and is allied with certain factions of the region.    

 

To address the broader audience on this question, personally, I don't go in for this picking of sides and then rooting for one side over the other as if we were all rooting for our favored teams in the Olympics.  These conflicts are characterized by extreme violence in which many innocent are caught in the cross fire. 

 

That is not to say that I have any simple and magical answer to the problems of the region.  In the short term, I am not very optimistic about a settlement that is fair to all concerned.  There is too much of a mentality of "right makes right" going on in the region. 

 

Still, it does strike me that an alternative of consolidation of control into one central  government that is bound to be dominated by one faction or another is a recipe for disaster and for continued strife in the region. Tribal instincts are bound to assert themselves and undermine such an approach.  


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#39
BarkEater93

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The countries that are on the periphery of the violence in Syria and Iraq --- Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, among others, are right on the frontlines. They can’t afford to sit back and ignore the violence spilling into their own borders. So they’re trying to insert themselves in the region enable to secure their borders. It’s not necessarily because they want to conquer, or that they have imperialist ambitions. But as new threats arise that insertion can lead into another. 
 
The Kurds unfortunately are the ones caught in the middle of all this. But this is nothing new for them. They have struggled to form their own state for a long time. They’re divided among several countries, each with different ambitions.
 
So the region has become a battleground for native powers, each with different needs, trying to secure themselves. The suppression of ISIS has left a vacuum that these countries are trying to fill with buffers. The two main countries that have the military strength and resources to pursue this are Iran and Turkey. Turkey particularly has the advantage in the long-term not necessarily because it’s a morally just regime (the Ottomans were very brutal) but because it has the military strength, and history, of occupying the region. 
 
Meanwhile, outside powers like Russia and the U.S. have inserted themselves to try to bring some form of stability to the region (on their own terms of course), and to prevent a hegemon from rising. But in the process they have found themselves bogged down there and are trying to find ways to get out where there isn't an unsatisfactory result.   


#40
caltrek

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No doubt, many bordering regimes do rationalize their actions in terms of self-defense.  In that sense, I suppose BarkEater93 has a good point.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls






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