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Syrian Civil War News and Discussions

Syria Iraq Turkey Russia Saudi Arabia ISIS Kurds Assad Civil War Iran

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#901
YourGuest

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They have not been proven to be carried out by the Syrian government, so one cannot reasonably claim that Assad's methods are unusually "brutal", u

 

...and who else is carrying out these attacks. The tooth fairy?

 

Perhaps those same people who want for Assad to be punished for them. Perhaps even those same people (directly funded by USA, btw) who spread the "breaking news" about these "attacks" and present "evidence"... Interesting and fresh idea, isn't it?



#902
TranscendingGod

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Oh is that your average Syrian? Well howdy! I've learned much today. 


The growth of computation is doubly exponential growth. 


#903
TranscendingGod

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Also I find it interesting that our fellow Russian believes that his logic is unassailable because he points out tenuous connections between disparate parties involved in this conflict. He then proceeds to ask us to prove negatives, and extremely difficult thing to do under any circumstances but especially in this scenario, and then uses the inability to do so as further proof that his ad hoc constructions of conspiratorial collaboration is indeed correct. 

 

In simpler terms the edifice of his argument is based upon a fallacy bolstered by his belief in another faltering of logic that has been engendered in him by his unfailing faith in his worldview. 


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The growth of computation is doubly exponential growth. 


#904
caltrek

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They have not been proven to be carried out by the Syrian government, so one cannot reasonably claim that Assad's methods are unusually "brutal", u

 

...and who else is carrying out these attacks. The tooth fairy?

 

Perhaps those same people who want for Assad to be punished for them. Perhaps even those same people (directly funded by USA, btw) who spread the "breaking news" about these "attacks" and present "evidence"... Interesting and fresh idea, isn't it?

 

 

No. It is a worn out and to me implausible idea.  Mostly because defenders of Assad ignore my counterarguments: that the ability to use chemical weapons and then frame Syria do not seem to be degrading as would be expected if the Syrian military is being as successful as is claimed. Therefore, the more plausible argument being that the regime that manufactured (or imported) the weapons is that same regime that is now using those weapons.  Perhaps Assad's case would be stronger had he never gone down the road of developing chemical weapons. There is also the issue of responsibility. How could he have been so careless as to allow those weapons into the hands of ISIS?

 

 

...and it is the United States, especially under Obama, that was trying to promote anarchy in the region. Really?

 

Sounds to me like nationalistic bias at work, and I don't mean on my part.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#905
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Also I find it interesting that our fellow Russian believes that his logic is unassailable because he points out tenuous connections between disparate parties involved in this conflict. He then proceeds to ask us to prove negatives, and extremely difficult thing to do under any circumstances but especially in this scenario, and then uses the inability to do so as further proof that his ad hoc constructions of conspiratorial collaboration is indeed correct. 

 

In simpler terms the edifice of his argument is based upon a fallacy bolstered by his belief in another faltering of logic that has been engendered in him by his unfailing faith in his worldview. 

 

What? This is too overcomplicated for poor stupid me.

 

These statements, hovewer, are much simplier to grasp: 

 

1) White Helmets are funded by USA.

2) White Helmets produced films about "atrocities of regime".

3) These films were used to justify the US missile attacks on Syria.

4) Actors of these films were then found alive and well and told how those films were created.

5) Western officials completely IGNORED their testimony.



#906
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How Syria's White Helmets became victims of an online propaganda machine

https://www.theguard...piracy-theories

 

Introduction:

 

(The Guardian) The Syrian volunteer rescue workers known as the White Helmets have become the target of an extraordinary disinformation campaign that positions them as an al-Qaida-linked terrorist organisation.

 

The Guardian has uncovered how this counter-narrative is propagated online by a network of anti-imperialist activists, conspiracy theorists and trolls with the support of the Russian government (which provides military support to the Syrian regime).

 

The White Helmets, officially known as the Syria Civil Defence, is a humanitarian organisation made up of 3,400 volunteers – former teachers, engineers, tailors and firefighters – who rush to pull people from the rubble when bombs rain down on Syrian civilians. They’ve been credited with saving thousands of civilians during the country’s continuing civil war.

They have also exposed, through first-hand video footage, war crimes including a chemical attack in April. Their work was the subject of an Oscar-winning Netflix documentary and the recipient of two Nobel peace prize nominations.

 

Despite this positive international recognition, there’s a counter-narrative pushed by a vocal network of individuals who write for alternative news sites countering the “MSM agenda”. Their views align with the positions of Syria and Russia and attract an enormous online audience, amplified by high-profile alt-right personalities, appearances on Russian state TV and an army of Twitter bots.

 

The way the Russian propaganda machine has targeted the White Helmets is a neat case study in the prevailing information wars. It exposes just how rumours, conspiracy theories and half-truths bubble to the top of YouTube, Google and Twitter search algorithms.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#907
joe00uk

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caltrek, ISIS still carries out some attacks in Syria but it's mostly the non-ISIS rebel groups that are responsible for the chemical attacks that they framed on Assad. ISIS has been severely weakened since their peak of power in mid-2015. These non-ISIS (but still jihadist) rebels have been confirmed to have had the right chemicals and all the right equipment at the time these attacks happened, and the government did not, as far as anyone knows. We know that only the rebels benefitted from this attack because it provoked support for an attack on the Syrian government. The Syrian government had no motivation to carry out these attacks because they were advancing quickly without them. Not all the facts are available (like whether or not the Syrian government really does still have chemical weapons), and no-one should deny this, but given what we do know, we should be able to draw the right conclusions. But your anti-Assad hysteria won't allow for that. You think I'm the crazy extremist only because I disagree with the tirade of propaganda constantly blaring out from the mainstream corporate media which is tied to the interests and fortunes of plutocratic billionaires. Call me all the names you want, I don't care for them. And they won't convince me. They only confirm to me your mad, desperate hysteria.

 

Of these supposed "moderates", where are they? Are they a fighting force? I have not heard of any such "moderates", who have indeed turned out to be truly moderate, progressive-minded people. Perhaps you can show me wrong. Or perhaps not. I will wait.



#908
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The story behind Russia's smear campaign against Syria's White Helmets

 

https://www.business...-helmets-2018-3

 

Conclusion:

 

(Business Insider) Russia and Syria have launched a smear campaign against the White Helmets and Fayyad's film. They claim the White Helmets are a terrorist organization.

 

Fayyad : All of this is propaganda that attacks them, which is very strange. There's ISIS and there's many terrorist groups, they're interested more in attacking the White Helmets more than the other terrorist groups. They make the group of people who have saved more than 100,000 lives their enemy.

 

Every comment about the film, there's the Russian hackers coming and writing something against this film and showing different pictures that manipulate the story. When you search about "Last Men in Aleppo" you see 80% against the film, 20% it shows some positive comment.

 

And that's impactful actually, impactful with many people. They come to you and ask you, "How can I believe this? I heard this could be made in Hollywood or made for the Americans or made for different Western parties?" Now we are "fake news maker" or whatever because we are just telling the truth.

 

Generally, if you ask any Syrian what he wants, he'll say, "I want justice, I want freedom, and I want equality, and I want to be respected for my dignity, and I want to live safely." Nobody wants to take this journey and drown in the Mediterranean, nobody wants to sacrifice himself, and nobody wants to keep doing it.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#909
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caltrek, ISIS still carries out some attacks in Syria but it's mostly the non-ISIS rebel groups that are responsible for the chemical attacks that they framed on Assad. ISIS has been severely weakened since their peak of power in mid-2015. These non-ISIS (but still jihadist) rebels have been confirmed to have had the right chemicals and all the right equipment at the time these attacks happened, and the government did not, as far as anyone knows. 

 

No citations on your part and contrary to evidence as presented in citations that I have made earlier in this thread.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#910
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We know that only the rebels benefitted from this attack because it provoked support for an attack on the Syrian government. 

 

 

No, we also know that Assad likes to impose his policies by brute force.  Chemical weapons certainly fall under the category of brute force.

 

Are you disputing that Assad had such weapons in the first place and claiming that his regime never used them?


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#911
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Not all the facts are available (like whether or not the Syrian government really does still have chemical weapons), and no-one should deny this, but given what we do know, we should be able to draw the right conclusions

 
 
A reasonable enough proposition standing on its own. 
 

But your anti-Assad hysteria won't allow for that

 
 
I will let people other than you and Your Guest make the call as to how "hysterical" I am being.

 

 

Of these supposed "moderates", where are they? Are they a fighting force? I have not heard of any such "moderates", who have indeed turned out to be truly moderate, progressive-minded people. Perhaps you can show me wrong. Or perhaps not. I will wait.

 You think I'm the crazy extremist only because I disagree with the tirade of propaganda constantly blaring out from the mainstream corporate media which is tied to the interests and fortunes of plutocratic billionaires. Call me all the names you want, I don't care for them. And they won't convince me. They only confirm to me your mad, desperate hysteria

 

 

Actually, dude, you are coming off as a tad mad yourself.  Keep up the tirade and "hysterical" will also become an apt adjective.  I guess some people just like to dish out the colorful adjectives but can't stand a taste of their own medicine.  

 

Next, I suppose we will be hearing whining and complaining about how picked upon is your your poor little 18 year old such self.  As if your age should give you free license to present all sorts of unchallenged nonsense. 

 

 

 

Of these supposed "moderates", where are they? Are they a fighting force? I have not heard of any such "moderates", who have indeed turned out to be truly moderate, progressive-minded people. Perhaps you can show me wrong. Or perhaps not. I will wait.

 

Well, the White Helmets are a perfect example.  Folks who apparently often risk their lives to provide humanitarian existence and then are identified as being equivalent to ISIS merely because they have the temerity to criticize Assad.   

 

Yes, keep waiting Joe, because it is clear that once again your mind is made up and that you don't want to be bothered by little details like facts.  Such facts will always be rationalized away by your continual need to embrace the scum of the earth and elevate them to hero status.

All because Marx once wrote some nasty things about capitalists.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#912
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Mehdi Hasan of The Intercept, Tweets:

https://twitter.com/...667197904441344

Seymour Hersh was a journalistic hero of mine for so, so long - but what’s happened to him in recent years? In this interview with The Independent to promote his new memoir, he suggests Assad is fighting a “just war” and Bin Laden wasn’t behind 9/11. Sigh.



#913
caltrek

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In this war, truth itself is a battleground

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/russia-syria-fake-news/557660/

 

Introduction:

 

(The Atlantic) As Russia tells it, reports of an attack over the weekend in the Syrian town of Douma that left victims’ mouths foaming and corneas burned do not suggest what the United States and its European allies suspect: that the Russian-backed Syrian government once again used chemical weapons against its own people.

 

Instead, according to a statement from the Russian Foreign Ministry, they amount to “fake news” spread by the White Helmets. The group of Syrian first responders, which was recently celebrated in a documentary and has provided reliable accounts of such attacks in the past, is in Russia’s view actually working “hand in glove with the terrorists” and “other pseudo-humanitarian organizations headquartered in the U.K. and the U.S.” The Kremlin characterized the White Helmets’ report, which it cosigned with an organization that provides medical services to Syrians, as an effort to prevent the Syrian army from “liberating” Douma and justify military intervention by foreign powers.

 

When, on Wednesday, Donald Trump warned Russia that “smart!” missiles will soon hurtle toward Syria, to punish Syrian President Bashar al-Assad for the attack, a Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman wondered whether the missiles would be smart enough to “eliminate the traces of [the chemical] provocation,” in an apparent reference to a staged attack.

 

At the United Nations, Russian Ambassador Vasily Nebenzya fuzzed and fudged facts in the guise of fact-finding. He announced during an emergency Security Council meeting that Russian specialists had found no evidence of chemical-weapons use in Douma—without mentioning that no one else could confirm that finding, or the contradictory findings of aid and activist groups, because Syrian and Russian forces had restricted access to the area. He called for international chemical-weapons investigators to visit the site of the alleged atrocity immediately (they say they’re headed there soon), but then vetoed a U.S. resolution empowering those investigators to assign blame for chemical attacks. He simultaneously urged his fellow ambassadors to presume that a chemical attack had not taken place and noted suggestively that Syrian troops had discovered artisanal chemical factories near Douma maintained by the rebel group Jaish al-Islam.

 


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#914
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^ ^ ^ Yes, the truth itself is a battleground. And this very article is an excellent example of lies and fact distortion. I'll quote only one paragraph:

 

At the United Nations, Russian Ambassador Vasily Nebenzya fuzzed and fudged facts in the guise of fact-finding. He announced during an emergency Security Council meeting that Russian specialists had found no evidence of chemical-weapons use in Douma—without mentioning that no one else could confirm that finding, or the contradictory findings of aid and activist groups, because Syrian and Russian forces had restricted access to the area. He called for international chemical-weapons investigators to visit the site of the alleged atrocity immediately (they say they’re headed there soon), but then vetoed a U.S. resolution empowering those investigators to assign blame for chemical attacks. He simultaneously urged his fellow ambassadors to presume that a chemical attack had not taken place and noted suggestively that Syrian troops had discovered artisanal chemical factories near Douma maintained by the rebel group Jaish al-Islam.

 

1) The stream of baseless insults. No comment.

 

2) Lies. "International" (in fact western) observers were invited, but REFUSED to come.

 

3) Lies. US resolution was vetoed because this resolution laid the blame on Syrian government before the investigation.



#915
joe00uk

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caltrek, I cited all that in earlier posts, which you saw. I’m merely referencing them again now. Stop being so disingenuous. You do sound a bit hysterical when you say stuff like “how picked upon is your poor little 18 year old self” and “you don’t want to be bothered by little details like facts” (which are far from facts) and “scum of the earth” and “all because Marx once wrote some nasty things about capitalists”. So, yes, you are being absolutely, totally and undeniably hysterical. Calm down or stop posting here if you can’t handle it.

The White Helmets, even if they did not have jihadist links, are not a fighting force in this war and cannot form a new government in Syria because all they are, supposedly, is a volunteer rescue team.



#916
starspawn0

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Whatever happened to Seymour Hersh?:
 
https://www.prospect...o-seymour-hersh

Yet after decades of exposing lies told by the American government, it is almost as if he has forgotten that other governments have their own reasons for being mendacious too. He seems to jump from the fact that America has denounced an atrocity to suspecting that it never happened. And when it comes to the regimes that America points the finger at—like Syria—Hersh’s scepticism, the inquisitiveness, the “why-are-these-lying-bastards-lying-to-me?” approach is entirely absent. Hersh doesn’t see it that way. “If you think that I’m going to throw away 45 years of my reputation for Bashar al-Assad.” He lets out a loud, mirthless laugh.



#917
caltrek

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caltrek, I cited all that in earlier posts, which you saw

 

 

Fair enough, then please stop ignoring previous posts that I have made.  Clauses like "not been established" go beyond doubting previous evidence submitted but imply that no evidence has been submitted.  

 

 

 

The White Helmets, even if they did not have jihadist links, are not a fighting force in this war and cannot form a new government in Syria because all they are, supposedly, is a volunteer rescue team

 

 

Well, yes.  In our country the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) is far down (or maybe not even on) the list of successors should the president be disabled.  Still,  HHS is a subdivision of our government.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#918
caltrek

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Whatever happened to Seymour Hersh?:
 
https://www.prospect...o-seymour-hersh
 

 

 

 

From the cited article:

 

 

 

 “he hoped the Bush administration would come to realise that Syria, a secular nation,

 

I am not sure I agree with the  assessment that Syria is a secular nation under Assad.  The portrayal of Assad as the head of a religious sect that governs Syria can also be quite compelling. By "religious sect" I do not mean "scientific materialist." 

 

Politics sometimes makes for strange bedfellows. 


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#919
starspawn0

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When hospitals become targets in Syria's civil war

https://www.cbsnews....war-60-minutes/

#920
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THIS IS IMPORTANT

 

Terrorists readying chemical attack to frame Damascus & provide pretext for US strikes – Russian MoD

 

 
The US and its allies are preparing new airstrikes on Syria, the Russian Defense Ministry said, adding that militants are poised to stage a chemical weapons attack in order to frame Damascus and provide a pretext for the strikes.
 
The attack would be used as a pretext for US, UK and French airstrikes on Syrian targets... The destroyer has 56 cruise missiles on board, according to data from the Russian Defence Ministry. A US Rockwell B-1 Lancer, a supersonic bomber equipped with 24 cruise missiles, has also been deployed at the Qatari Al Udeid Airbase. 
 
The provocations are being prepared by militants from Al-Nusra Front (now known as Tahrir al-Sham) in Idlib province, northwestern Syria,  In order to stage the attack, some eight canisters of chlorine were delivered in to village near Jisr al-Shughur city for the terrorists’ use, he added. A separate group of militants, prepped by private British security company Olive, have also arrived in the area. The group will be disguised as volunteers from the White Helmets group and will simulate a rescue operation involving locals purportedly injured in the attack, according to the military official.

 

=== === ===

 

Such is the crazy and surreal world we live in. Everything is known in advance:

 

- At first it was announced that "Assad" is planning another chemical attack,
 
- then it was announced that coalition is ready to "punish Assad",
 
- then the US Navy and Air Force were deployed "for a retaliatory strike",
 
- and only then, according to the schedule, "Assad" should commit his another heinous and meaningless crime...






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Russia, Saudi Arabia, ISIS, Kurds, Assad, Civil War, Iran

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