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PlayStation 5 – News and Discussions

Sony PlayStation PlayStation 4 PlayStation 5 gaming console consoles next generation

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#21
wjfox

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PlayStation CEO Says PS4 is Coming to the End of Its Life Cycle

 

May 22, 2018

 

It sounds like Sony is looking to the future, as the company CEO confirms the PlayStation 4 is coming toward the end of its life cycle.

First hitting shelves in 2014, the PS4 sits in the eighth generation of consoles, and has gone on to be one of the biggest success stories for Sony. Showcasing stellar games like Grand Theft Auto V, Uncharted 4, and Horizon: Zero Dawn, players have some fond memories when it comes to the PS4. That being said, as Sony plans to move ahead, efforts will be focused elsewhere.

Reported by Wall Street Journal writer Takashi Mochizuki on Twitter, Sony Interactive Entertainment CEO John Kodera is preparing to lower the curtain on the PS4.

Kodera told audiences at Sony's annual Investor Relations Day that he can't expect unit sales to increase year-on-year, so time would be better spent looking at other avenues while also continuing to reap the benefit of services like PS+. With consoles typically running in 7-year cycles, it makes perfect sense that the PS4 has started looking at its endgame.

[...]

As for what comes next, gamers are already looking forward to the PlayStation 5. With some interesting hardware leaks suggesting something supercharged to rival Microsoft's next big offering, everyone has already been warned not to expect the next generation of next-gen consoles this side of 2020.

 

https://screenrant.c...end-life-cycle/

 

 

 


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#22
Alislaws

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I wonder if they will push more on cloud streaming options? Internet connections are getting better and better*, and services like Shadow are giving people access to high end gaming PCs for reasonable monthly fees. This seems to be cheaper than buying a new high performance desktop PC every couple of years, It gets upgraded periodically and PC games are much cheaper than console games. 

 

*Outside the UK at least

 

I'm not sure streaming games will be big enough in time to affect the PS5 (although Sony have already got game streaming on PS4 I think?), but I would guess the PS6 likely won't happen. 


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#23
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Sony Confirms PlayStation 5 At Least 3 Years Away

    By Joel Hruska on May 24, 2018 at 11:15 am

 

Over the last few weeks, we’ve started to see some chatter about a possible next-generation PlayStation 5, including a few examinations of what the hardware might look like. Today, Sony poured cold water on claims that never made much sense in the first place.

The next generation PS5 is at least three years away, according to the head of Sony’s PlayStation business, as Takashi Mochizuki of the Wall Street Journal reports. That’s despite earlier rumors that suggested a launch date this year or in 2019 (2020 is the earliest date that made much sense to us). Sony, in fact, has very little reason to hurry and ample cause to keep the PlayStation 4 in-market for a while longer.

 

https://www.extremet...st-3-years-away


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#24
Yuli Ban

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See, that makes more sense to me. There is probably another order of magnitude of hardware advances that will happen between now and 2020-2021, so releasing a new full-fledged console in 2018 or 2019 is asking to lose the next generation. Sort of like how Sega made the mistake of releasing the Dreamcast in 1998 before they could properly realize it needed to have DVD support in order to succeed (and graphics chips were forever stuck at a lower level than even the PS2).


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#25
bgates276

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To be honest, I think they should just take their time. The PS4 to the PS4 Pro really wasn't that big of a leap. I also want to see them make a substantial improvement in graphics. As it is, while the technology may be moving slower now, I'm also becoming more content with the standard they have already achieved, and am willing to wait it out. I wouldn't want to pay for something else now, which is basically the same thing, minus the compatibility of prior generations.


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#26
Alislaws

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Does anyone know how successful the  PS4 - PRO was? I mean I didn't see any "it was a disaster" article, but also didn't see any "Sony buys Microsoft" announcements either, so evidently it is somewhere between the two, and therefore not worthy of news. 

 

If it did well we may see a PS4 - Ultra or something announced this year as another incremental step. 

 

PlayStation CEO Andrew House said: "The consumer is attuned to a different cadence of innovation in technology thanks in great part to the upgrades cadence on mobile phones and PCs."

 

When discussing the PS4 Pro. I'm sure Sony love the idea of selling a new, full price console every couple of years using most of the same bits? I know consoles have traditionally not been where the money is made (more in games and peripherals) but surely they could figure out a way to do it profitably.

 

I know Sony have tried to do streaming games before which means they are surely aware that it is only a matter of time before internet speeds get quick enough (5G, will do this, in countries with decent infrastructure) and at that point consoles just won't make sense, except as dumb terminals connecting to cloud servers which do all the heavy lifting.

 

Releasing a full power/high price console after 5G is rolled out strikes me as a losing proposition. 



#27
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Ubisoft CEO: Cloud gaming will replace consoles after the next generation

 

6/7/2018, 10:04 PM

 

Better start saving up for that PlayStation 5, Xbox Two, or Nintendo Swatch (that last follow-up name idea is a freebie, by the way). That generation of consoles might be the last one ever, according to Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot. After that, he predicts cheap local boxes could provide easier access to ever-evolving high-end gaming streamed to the masses from cloud-based servers.

 

https://arstechnica....ext-generation/

 

 

lymJosR.jpg


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#28
Alislaws

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Ubisoft CEO: Cloud gaming will replace consoles after the next generation

 

6/7/2018, 10:04 PM

 

Better start saving up for that PlayStation 5, Xbox Two, or Nintendo Swatch (that last follow-up name idea is a freebie, by the way). That generation of consoles might be the last one ever, according to Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot. After that, he predicts cheap local boxes could provide easier access to ever-evolving high-end gaming streamed to the masses from cloud-based servers.

 

https://arstechnica....ext-generation/

He's a smart guy, we can expect endless, remarkably similar open world titles to keep coming from Ubisoft for many years to come!



#29
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Hmm, no E3 thread this year? I know this is a futurist forum and the time scale is perhaps a bit longer, but the gaming industry will at least be discussing some games coming out in the next year or two at the Electronics Entertainment Expo that is going on this week.

 

Phil Spencer did mention at the Microsoft presentation, that they are already working on their next generation of console.



#30
UG1

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Pretty sure 2020-2021 sounds about right for a release for ps5. E3 2019 will prob. be the reveal 



#31
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Sony PlayStation 4 will get 'next-generation' successor

 

Sony's president has confirmed that his company is developing a new video games console.

Kenichiro Yoshida told the Financial Times that "it's necessary to have a next-generation hardware".

However, he declined to say whether the successor would be branded the PlayStation 5, the newspaper added.

The announcement comes at a time when Sony and other tech firms have been experimenting with streaming games from remote servers as an alternative.

The Japanese company allows titles on its cloud-based PlayStation Now service to be played via PCs, and at one time also provided access to some TVs and Blu-ray players.

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...nology-45801953



#32
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Well i'll be keeping Fingers crossed for Sony going all in on vr support for this next console!


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#33
bgates276

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Well i'll be keeping Fingers crossed for Sony going all in on vr support for this next console!

 

IMO, VR has kind of been a flop. They didn't sell nearly as many as was projected. A few reasons: there's the associated problem with nausea, it's bulky, it's not wireless, the cost has been prohibitive, and as of yet, there really is no killer app for it. 

 

Anyhow, what I'd like to see from the PS5: hardware capable of true 4k resolution at 60 hz (no more checkerboarding); support for latest HDR formats; a general jump in visual fidelity to support Unreal Engine 5 (when it releases); introduction of onboard AI support; 2 TB harddrive or higher; 32 GB RAM or higher; UHD Blu Ray player; overhaul of online services; more 1st party software developers; less than $500 ($399 USD preferable).  


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#34
Alislaws

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PSVR is up to a player base of 3million now. Also just announced a ported version of borderlands 2 (more evidence that Its worth it for AAA game developers to do a quick VR port and sell a million copies at £49.99)

 

People are spending £1000+ annually on phones, getting gamers to pay £300 for VR once there are a few AAA games designed for it from the ground up will be trivial.

 

Which is the big issue at the moment, the games coming out are either ports of non VR games (often pretty lazy ports!) or fairly small in scope and built by indie dev teams. 

 

VR won't really kick off (as in almost as many people have VR as have the console) until at least the next console generation I think, although its still unclear how far you can push the PS4 in VR content. Simple reality is that building a AAA game usually takes 5+ years, Modern VR has existed for a bit over 3 years?, (Anniversary sale on PSN for PSVR titles now FYI) There are probably a couple of AAA VR projects being worked on now with Sony backing, which would be out on PS5-VR in 2021 or 2022.

 

Sony seem to be committed to VR though. There is a lot of synergy for Sony electronic products (like 3d cameras etc.) which could really take off once there is a significant VR user base available. 

 

In purely anecdotal evidence, this time last year I knew 0 people with non-phone VR, now I know 7 (including me). Also I haven't played any games on my 1Y old £1000 gaming PC since I bought PSVR a couple of weeks ago, and I don't even have a PS4 Pro so that's about the worst quality VR available outside of mobile and its still way more fun than any similar non-VR game I have on PC or playstation.

 

So I'm really not sure who was doing the original projections for VR, but they were on something really good! VR can only grow slowly in this early phase, you need enough players to justify investing in good games/apps and you need good games/apps for players to justify investing in the expensive equipment. We're firmly in the "early adoption" phase. 

 

The first modern smartphone was probably the Nokia 9000 communicator which came out in 1997. The first iPhone was (2007), and then smartphone adoption didn't really start to get up to speed until 2010-2012 or so.  This VR wave got started in 2016, its been 2.5 years. We are nowhere near the 'knee' of the curve yet.


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#35
bgates276

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Well, I don't know if you've been around that long, but perhaps you may not know that VR was actually a fad back in the 1990's. There was a lot of hype around it, you could pay at certain venues to experience it as well. There was also the movie 'The Lawnmower man' which had a plot loosely based upon the technology. Then, out of nowhere, VR, just ... disappeared. It was not talked about in the mainstream for nearly 25 years. 

 

Then Palmer Luckey started a Kickstarter for Occulus Rift, it was picked up by the mainstream media, and the big companies actually took notice. To me, it seems a lot like a fluke, and I really wouldn't be surprised if it faded again, considering that the technology to really do it justice, simply doesn't seem to be there yet.

 

Oh, btw, 3 million player base may sound like a lot, but how many PS4's have been sold up to this point? According to one source I saw, that's a little old now, I will round it to about 75 million. So, if that is true, only about 4 percent of PS4 owners have one. That doesn't sound so great to me.  



#36
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Your points are valid, but I don't see any remotely plausible way that VR uptake could be much faster than it has been. The software does not exist to justify the cost of the equipment to price conscious consumers. Which is most of them. 

 

The player base doesn't exist to justify spending 50m on developing a game for it.

 

Over the time, steadily more software will become available from ports and indie devs, leading to a steady increase in VR base leading to bigger games, leading to a bigger dev. base etc.

 

I'd be very surprised if in 5 years you cant stick just about any mainstream smartphone into a headset and have an HMD at least as good as PSVR is currently which will eliminate one of the big costs. 

 

 

 

the technology to really do it justice, simply doesn't seem to be there yet

 

What versions of VR have you experienced that have made you think this? VR already provides incredible immersion in it' current form. There are  few games which use it really well but that's not a hardware Issue, because the games that do are really great.

 

Short of full body haptic feedback suits and cheap home omnidirectional treadmills I don't see what else you would need for quality VR that isn't available now, or will be available in the next few years. 

 

3D Audio is a solved problem.

Visually Its mostly about small light weight high definition screens, and mobile phones will keep pushing prices for those down even if VR halted completely tomorrow.

Tracking has been solved in a number of different ways, not sure which will win, but its definitely been solved.

 

And computers/consoles get better over time, so the 2 different images and wider area you need to render will be less and less of a problem moving forward. 

 

Obviously there are some key techs which would make things better like foveated rendering and stuff, as well as some anti nausea ideas people are investigating, but the minimum viable product has definitely already been achieved.


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#37
Casey

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Well, I don't know if you've been around that long, but perhaps you may not know that VR was actually a fad back in the 1990's. There was a lot of hype around it, you could pay at certain venues to experience it as well. There was also the movie 'The Lawnmower man' which had a plot loosely based upon the technology. Then, out of nowhere, VR, just ... disappeared. It was not talked about in the mainstream for nearly 25 years.

 

I don't know how relevant the VR situation of the 90s is to the present day; the technological world of the '90s and 2010s, at least in terms of computer technology, is too vastly different. The Lawnmower Man came out in 1992, where the Super Nintendo was in its youth, NES games were being released on a monthly basis, and if the TOP500 List existed at the time, the great majority of computers on the list would have been measured in megaflops (I think the 1993 list was about 50:50 when it came to megaflop computers vs. gigaflop). And, according to scans I've seen advertising VR headsets from the mid to late 90s, their specs were pretty laughable by modern day standards. Things like 50 or 60 degree field of vision and resolutions of 192x192. I'm sure VR will make it, it's already made solid gains in terms of popularity since 2015 and 2016. 5G allowing for livestreaming of events like sports and concerts should be a huge boon. I agree with Ali, the baseline technology is good enough to satisfy the average person. What remains is price factors (a problem close to solved thanks to all-in-one headsets) and content (which I think will come about with 5G).


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#38
Yuli Ban

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Well, I don't know if you've been around that long, but perhaps you may not know that VR was actually a fad back in the 1990's. There was a lot of hype around it, you could pay at certain venues to experience it as well. There was also the movie 'The Lawnmower man' which had a plot loosely based upon the technology. Then, out of nowhere, VR, just ... disappeared. It was not talked about in the mainstream for nearly 25 years. 

 

Then Palmer Luckey started a Kickstarter for Occulus Rift, it was picked up by the mainstream media, and the big companies actually took notice. To me, it seems a lot like a fluke, and I really wouldn't be surprised if it faded again, considering that the technology to really do it justice, simply doesn't seem to be there yet.

 

Oh, btw, 3 million player base may sound like a lot, but how many PS4's have been sold up to this point? According to one source I saw, that's a little old now, I will round it to about 75 million. So, if that is true, only about 4 percent of PS4 owners have one. That doesn't sound so great to me.  

See this documentary.

 

Gen 1 VR's failure had many reasons and claiming that the same causes exist now feels rather disingenuous. Though I agree that VR wasn't ready for the primetime around 2014-2016, the latest the VR revival could have truly started was around the early 2020s. It's far too close to that era for VR to fail, for one.

 

Secondly, this is expecting VR to knock it out of the park overnight. I've been ranting all throughout 2016 and 2017 about why VR wasn't ready and was slipping up— most experiences were 5-minute-long novelties, cheap meme-ready simulators dominated the market, and it all just felt there was no killer app for VR. But I never seriously thought VR was actually going to die

A fine parallel would be the rise of personal computers or smartphones. PCs got their start in the late '70s and early '80s. The best-selling computer of all time (AFAIK) is the Commodore 64. But PCs would not truly come into their own until the 1990s. Look at this ad— https://www.reddit.c...ctober_23_1994/. The average computer of the day cost $5,000 in 2018 dollars and could barely run Doom II. Not to mention how smartphones got their start as feature phones in the '90s and early '00s and didn't really impact the mainstream until the Blackberry and didn't really become a fundamental part of modern life until the iPhone, and even that didn't truly happen until the early 2010s.

VR is the same way. The era of the technology just not being there was the '90s. Modern tech can run VR. It can even run VR well. We have HMDs with 120Hz refresh rates, capable of highly accurate head-tracking, 200° FOV, 4K screens, foveated rendering, and more either on the market or in development. There's just not a whole lot being done with VR to entice buyers beyond rereleases of old games like Skyrim VR and Fallout 4 VR. 

 

Compare that to VR in the '90s where even if there were products people wanted to buy (like Doom VR), the best that consumer VR could do was "180 x 240 resolution with a 30Hz refresh rate" with games whose graphics were either still faux-3D or looked like the Money For Nothing video. Virtuality could only do what they did because they had arcade set-ups for their HMDs. Arcade games had long been far ahead of home consoles and PCs up until around the 6th generation of gaming.

 

 

TLDR: Gen 1 (Gen 0?) VR failed because of hardware and software issues— VR objectively could never have taken off before 7th gen consoles were a thing. Gen 2 (or proper Gen 1?) VR isn't breaking into the exosphere because software still isn't up to snuff and there isn't much advertising going into it. The hardware is very much there. We are essentially still in the "Early Adopter" phase.


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#39
bgates276

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See, read closely. You suggest I said it was going to die. Nope, I actually said fade. I think the novelty has already worn off, and that it will lose a lot of popularity again. However, even before Palmer Luckey's success, there were many forums featuring the products of HMD's, such as this: https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/ In fact, I was on there around 2012 or so, and believe it or not, so was Luckey. He even replied to one of my comments. However, these products were very much a niche item that was in the shadows.  

 

So what do I think will happen? People will forget about VR for a while, it will lay low, if not completely going off the market, but the foundations for tech will continue to improve, and it will make another comeback, yet again. Who knows when, maybe late 2020's or 2030's? Zuckerberg actually mentioned that he'd like to have something the size of a pair of glasses that would be used for such things. However, how long will that take to come to fruition? As it is, these HMD's are over a pound on your face.

 

If it does stay around, there will have to be massive improvements between iterations, but I'm not sure I see that happening. 

 

As an analogy, think for a moment how long 3d TV's have been around? Believe it or not, for a quite a few of decades. It seems to reemerge every 10 or 20 years, getting progressively better and more legitimate, but then it often loses steam again. I think that 3d tv's will also make a comeback at some point in time again, perhaps when 8k emerges and it can be done without the glasses.  



#40
Alislaws

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I'm getting the impression you haven't actually experienced much of what is on offer with current VR?

 

Whatever experience you have had, I disagree with your conclusions, and think VR will continue to grow slowly but steadily until the first few AAA online titles come out at which point adoption will begin to increase more rapidly. I expect this to happen either in 2020 with the release of the PS5, or (if Sony don't push VR on the PS5) by 2022 without any big company pushing hard for it.

 

(This may be sped up by things like: phone VR becoming something that almost all phones can do. Or windows incorporating windows mixed reality with the next Xbox, or significant price drops in PCVR hardware etc. but even without these things I don't  see VR fading or failing, or in any way becoming smaller over time)

 

We will have to wait and see. 


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