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Universes with customized laws of physics

FIVR kardashev scale universe

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13 replies to this topic

#1
sun_set

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So... Many futurists are looking forwards to living inside full immersion virtual reality. But what will happen after that? Many people's goal is to try to live as long as possible. Civilization will probably become a Type 1, then 2, then Type 3 Civilization. The universe might eventually be saturated with intelligence by a then Type 4 Civilization. This would be called "The Omega Point". A point when the entire universe is a massive computer running simulations. After that, civilizations might try to colonize other universes or create universes. I am just wondering what you think a customized universe might be like.



#2
sun_set

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This is relevant.



#3
Jakob

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I doubt there's a broader set of laws of laws of physics that govern what sort of universe you're allowed to make. Either all universes must inherently have the same set of laws--early on, any basement universes we make will probably be like this anyway--or absolutely anything goes as long as it's internally consistent.



#4
zEVerzan

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If the 4 forces of our universe are: gravity, the strong and weak nuclear forces, and electromagnetism, then those sorts of universal simulations might be fiddling with those variables - or constructing new ones entirely.

 

A few scenarios I can see would be increasing or decreasing light speed, or changing the scale at which things can happen, allowing galaxies the size of our electrons or electrons the size of our galaxies.

 

Of course, it's really hard to imagine a universe with entirely alternate subatomic particles, laws of interaction, and forces. At that point, really anything goes.


I always imagined the future as a time of more reason, empathy, and peace, not less. It's time for a change.
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#5
Vivian

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I try to imagine a universe with negative matter and energy, in wich gravity push and pushing anything would make it going against you.  There might also be a antimatter universe, a universe in wich time doesnt exist,  but we couldnt survive in these universes. We probably would only survive in a universe with same rules as ours.



#6
BasilBerylium

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I try to imagine a universe with negative matter and energy, in wich gravity push and pushing anything would make it going against you.  There might also be a antimatter universe, a universe in wich time doesnt exist,  but we couldnt survive in these universes. We probably would only survive in a universe with same rules as ours.

Well, if you can create an entire universe, then why you couldn't alter your anatomy?


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#7
Vivian

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How much you can alter yourself while still being you? Neurons wouldnt work in other universe laws.



#8
Outlook

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Theoretical physicists create universes with differing laws of physics to test theories and hypothesis'. Its not so far flung out.

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#9
Hyndal_Halcyon

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How much you can alter yourself while still being you? Neurons wouldnt work in other universe laws.

  1. Neurons as we know them may not work.
  2. Theoretical neuron-like or other equivalent thought-making processes that follow the laws of another universe could be designed.
  3. The hard part is, bridging the gap between our universe and the target universe. We need two-way translations between these two universes to allow safe interuniversal travel. I'm thinking maybe small-scale wormholes or similar structures that can send gravitational waves.
  4. Engineering bodies that contain such neurons in #2 is also possible.
  5. Also, uploading our consciousness into those bodies, might be possible as well.

As you can see, I'm a huge nerd who'd rather write about how we can become a Type V civilization instead of study for my final exams (gotta fix that).

But to put an end to this topic, might I say that the one and only greatest future achievement of humankind is when it finally becomes posthumankind.


#10
Outlook

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Hyndal_Halcyon reminded me of something, especially with #2.

 

Conways game of life is the greatest example of complex creation in a game with simple laws of physics. In 2010, this guy created a self-replicating 'spaceship', which is a collection of cells that move together. It's absolutely mind numbing.

 

 

To me, it proved that complex creation can arise from the simplest rules. Conways game of life has no energy source, no particles. It's essentially a matrix of binary values with a simple set of rules to decide whether it's 1 or 0, yet creating a self-replicating organism, or complex interactions between certain collection of cells is possible, and to a large enough scale, I believe genuine life can exist in Conway's game of life in it's own weird way.


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The Prophet (saw) said: He who does not thank the people is not thankful to Allah.


#11
Jakob

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How much you can alter yourself while still being you? Neurons wouldnt work in other universe laws.

Surely building a new body is easier than building a new universe!



#12
zEVerzan

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I understand what Vivian means.

 

If what makes you "you" is the emergent property of bioelectric and biochemical impulses between your neurons, then you'll need to find some way to translate those properties to another universe's laws.

 

Like for example, here our brains work on bioelectrics and biochemicals, but another universe might not have electromagnetism or chemistry; we might have to settle for eeebleees and kkomblis instead so the translation isn't 1:1. Another scenario is that electrons don't move at the same speed or something, and in fact travel opposite to what we know.

 

Alternatively, a computer hosting an uploaded human consciousness here might use 0 and 1 (off and on), but another universe might have 0, 1 and -1 (off, on and ANTI-ON) and so you can't expect the translation between rules to be 1:1 there either. Even if you can find a way to survive in another universe with alternate physical laws, you probably won't be you.


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#13
Raklian

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I understand what Vivian means.

 

If what makes you "you" is the emergent property of bioelectric and biochemical impulses between your neurons, then you'll need to find some way to translate those properties to another universe's laws.

 

 

 

I wonder if a supercomputer the size of our Universe (all of its matter has been computerized) may not even manage to figure it out? The other Universes may be so utterly alien in its physical laws any form of computation we use will always lead to a false solution.

 

What about a quantum computer in the size of the Universe though?


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#14
Vivian

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We dont know what causes consciousness yet. Maybe consciousness cant exist without neurons.  While creating a new body would be easier than build  a new universe, creating a new body that  works on a new universe with different laws while still being you might be impossible.   We are assuming that creating a new universe will be possible some day, but it doesnt mean we can just make any rule for the universe and live on them.  It all depends on what conditions are necessary to consciousness. If neurons are necessary for it, we cant upload our minds to robots. We might have our brains in robot bodies like ghost in the shell, and nanobots inside the brain to fix it constantly. In this case, chemistry should work equaly in the other universe. 

 

If consciousness depends only on eletric impulses, then we can upload our minds to computers and the new universe would only need eletrons doing eletric impulses to be habitable. 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: FIVR, kardashev scale, universe

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