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Mind uploading processes


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6 replies to this topic

#1
CyberMisterBeauty

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The timeline in the 22nd century section says that the brain will be replaced by robotic components until the brain is entirely artifitial and then be transplanted into a robotic body.

 

But I think it won't be necessary to cut a person's skull in order to remove the brain.It wouldn't even be needed to be transplanted.We could use a quantum computer to scan and simulate the person' brain up to atomic level and then according to its simulation create an artifitial replica inside the artifitial body using a nanofactory, which would create the synthetic brain as the organ is simulated at atomic level. During the process the person would be put into sleep or biostasis ans when the patient wake up, their brain are artifitial and inside the robot. They would become an android and be no longer human.The person would wakeup as a brand new robot.In other words, the brain wouldn't even be needed to be transplanted.The organic body would be considered dead.Or the brain could be replaced inside the organic human body and then be teleported into the head of the robot body.

 

Am I right?Will this procedure become possible?I think the mind uploading section need a rewrite and the entire 22nd century and the far future sections as well.



#2
Alislaws

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It would be possible, but if you take an organic brain and add computer bits to it, you're still you, just with computer bits.

Then eventually you remove the last organic bits, but you're still you, just with all computer bits. You have continuity, your single self has evolved over time to be non-biological, but at all steps in the middle it was still you. 

 

 

If someone scans your brain and builds a robotic version, you could have 2 (or more!) of you alive at the same time, even if they then kill the organic version, what lives on is a robot clone of you rather than you. there is a disconnect between the biological version and the robotic version.

 

In purely practical terms this would make little difference to the end result, but many more people would be comfortable with the slow evolution, than would be comfortable with the quick replacement. So I think the more gradual process would be preferred  for a very long time. 


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#3
CyberMisterBeauty

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But that's the weird thing of the procedure: What kind of technology will be used to replace the organic brain's cells with artifitial components?And what about the water and the blood vessels and the other liquids that makeup the brain?Will they be replaced by an artifitial fluid or will they be drained out?

 

And what would happen to the organic human body after the artifitial brain was transplanted into the robot body?Will it be dead or will their organs be donated?



#4
Alislaws

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My guess would be you'll get an implant or connector for your brain, which will be placed in your head somehow. 

 

This will connect you to an external computer (or the cloud if it was safe enough) which will eventually be able to help you think. And probably store copies of your memories, and generally allow you to be super human in many ways. 

 

Over time, although you wouldn't be able to tell without checking, more and more of your mental processes would be taking place outside your skull. 

 

As long as your brain stayed healthy this would continue, you'd get smarter and smarter until only a tiny core of who you ware is still coming from your human brain. 

 

Eventually the human brain bit would die for some reason and an artificial version could activate, but by that point it might be <1% of your enormous brain. 


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#5
Raklian

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But the question is - what exactly is consciousness, the phenomena that gives us an unique awareness of our discrete place in space and time?

 

As long as we don't have an answer to this, mind uploading is an extremely risky proposition.


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#6
Erowind

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But the question is - what exactly is consciousness, the phenomena that gives us an unique awareness of our discrete place in space and time?

 

As long as we don't have an answer to this, mind uploading is an extremely risky proposition.

 

I don't think we need to entirely understand the phenomena to achieve a mind upload. I think it's fair at this point to say we know consciousness is linked to our biology, that should be enough to initiate a moravec transfer, although we may need to focus on more than just the brain. If consciousness and a sense of embodiment is tied to our spinal structure and for that matter our whole bodies--instead of just our brains, the process will be more complex. 

 

So we need an accurate simulation upwards of 99.99% of at minimum the human brain, and possibly the whole body to accomplish this, and that simulation needs to be individualized to the person undergoing transfer. We don't need to understand why or how the structures in that simulation give rise to consciousness though, or even what consciousness is. I can start a fire without understanding the precise physics of what or why fire exists, in the same way we can spark consciousness without understanding why it exists. Observing that certain conditions give rise to the phenomena we can recreate the phenomena by replicating those conditions.

 

Now, if it turns out that we can create a replica of a human being on the atomic level and that replica does not turn conscious, the religious among us might have advice.  

 

Edit: Grammar


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#7
Raklian

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But the question is - what exactly is consciousness, the phenomena that gives us an unique awareness of our discrete place in space and time?

 

As long as we don't have an answer to this, mind uploading is an extremely risky proposition.

 

I don't think we need to entirely understand the phenomena to achieve a mind upload. I think it's fair at this point to say we know consciousness is linked to our biology, that should be enough to initiate a moravec transfer, although we may need to focus on more than just the brain. If consciousness and a sense of embodiment is tied to our spinal structure and for that matter our whole bodies--instead of just our brains, the process will be more complex. 

 

So we need an accurate simulation upwards of 99.99% of at minimum the human brain, and possibly the whole body to accomplish this, and that simulation needs to be individualized to the person undergoing transfer. We don't need to understand why or how the structures in that simulation give rise to consciousness though, or even what consciousness is. I can start a fire without understanding the precise physics of what or why fire exists, in the same way we can spark consciousness without understanding why it exists. Observing that certain conditions give rise the phenomena we can recreate the phenomena by replicating those conditions.

 

Now, if it turns out that we can create a replica of a human being on the atomic level and that replica does not turn conscious, the religious among us might have advice.  

 

 

I suspect consciousness may be a 5th or higher dimensional phenomenon. We have always been saying we can't perceive dimensions other than the 4 dimensions we take for granted. Consciousness may be our way of perceiving a higher dimension without realizing it. Who is to say all possible dimensions can't be accessed readily, you know.

 

In the spirit of your arguments, I agree with you.

 

I've always posited that if we were to push for some kind of mind upload, we can try the safest possible approach which is to incrementally convert our brain matter into a different, yet still physically tangible substrate that gives us the ability to exist in virtual space. This substrate is of a material that is durable enough to last for hundreds of years, if not thousands. This method maintains the continuity of consciousness because it assumes our consciousness is supported by our own unique arrangement of atoms in our skulls. I admit it's an extreme case of oversimplification of my part but you get the general idea. If we find a way to incrementally convert those existing atoms into some kind of artificial equivalents, in the process fooling the brain as a whole that it hasn't essentially changed, we will have effectively succeeded in mind uploading of the very basic sort.

 

I guess this involves further technological advances in biological material sciences to achieve the prerequisite for this to happen.

 

Now, if you ask me if mind uploading in the purest sense will work... well, I'm stumped. I think it's for a future Einstein to figure it out.  lol


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