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President Trump News and Discussions

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#4141
PhoenixRu2020

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But that doesn't mean a society is durable.

 

Yes, it does. As you yourself said, Russian society twice restored their country from scratch, after the collapse of state machine. While in USA, just recently, we saw an attempt of California to secede for a trifle reason (election of a president they don't like). And now imagine they faced the serious problem(s), something similar Russia faced with. I'm damn sure the country will quickly break apart and each state will try to survive on its own.



#4142
Erowind

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So Biden did indeed withhold $1billion in U.S loans.

The Obama administration, of which Biden was a part, threatened to withhold the loans.
Agreed. The Obama administration in general is responsible and I'll add that Biden is at least partially responsible.



The conclusion, like most always, is that most democrat and republican politicians are rich snakes willing to exploit their positions of power for personal gain while perpetuating a system that is designed to aid them in doing so. This of course includes Biden.

To reach that conclusion in this case, you must end up adopting what may very well be a "fake news false controversy this entire string of conversation has turned into." That is to say, that even if one concedes that there was an appearance of a conflict of interest, it does not follow that Biden acted improperly due to that possible conflict. The argument presented in the Alternet article that I cited is that Biden did not let that conflict affect his actions in a corrupted manner. Quite the opposite of acting the role of a "rich snake" exploiting his position pf power. The article further argues that Biden acted to present a policy that opposed corruption within Ukraine. That he opposed corruption rather than embrace it.

Yes, given the limited argument I gave what you're saying makes sense. I should be more clear and I was a fool for not being upfront to begin with and dragging myself into the controversy I intended to diffuse. You're right that the potential for conflict of interest to be taken advantage of does not mean it actually was. And you may be right that Biden didn't act improperly within the context of this controversy. I don't know because I honestly haven't looked into it because I don't think it's relevant. I'll admit I was being inflammatory up there with my sensationalist statement that "Biden did indeed deny aid."

The thing that I was trying and failing to drive at and alluded to with my fake news and false controversy comment is that both Trump and Biden are corrupt and this entire debate is frivolous and nothing more than a distraction.

To take an example for Biden in the case of Ukraine right now. (We'll get to Trump.) It's no secret that the Biden campaign today is accepting lobbying money from the military industrial complex. I don't need to give a source, a quick search will turn up dozens of journalists talking about it where the military industrial complex is only one of many such lobbying groups. I consider political lobbying as it is done today in the United States political corruption. It is literally paying politicians to favor/write laws for you and or your organization. There are studies that representatives write laws in ~90% of cases only with the support of lobbyists with the electorate being represented a measly ~10% of the time and often less. It doesn't matter if the legal system calls political corruption by a different name it is still political corruption.

Where does Biden come in on this particular example? He was part of the Obama administration which actively spurred the fuel of war in Libya and stoked tensions in Ukraine to the profit off of the military industrial complex. That's the first point. The second point is that Biden even offering political aid in Ukraine is a corrupt action because the intent is so clearly to strengthen Ukraine against Russia in turn creating tension and justifying the profits of the military industrial complex of which Biden benefits. Talks about U.S interests and realpolitik be forsaken the man is making money from the game of politics at the expense of his electorate and that is wrong by core American principles and my own personal ethics.

Why is Trump corrupt? Practically the same argument with slight differences in minutia that aren't really important for this discussion. The Trump administration has also historically given aid to Ukraine regardless of this recent controversy which again isn't really relevant. And if it's not Ukraine right now it's Saudi Arabia or some other country.

My point is that they're both snakes and most of either party are snakes. I'm not being hyperbolic, a causal relation between their pockets and the money of countless industries is in plain view and the tragedy of the century is that it's legal. I don't really know what else to call people like that but snakes. And when both are snakes a national controversy over who is the biggest snake is pointlessly divisive and accomplishes nothing.

More importantly no one I knew followed or cared about what either Biden or Trump was doing in Ukraine before every media outlet in the whole country unleashed their army of payed shills onto the topic. This isn't journalism, none of these articles are being honest. If they were they'd be talking about political corruption in general and maybe use these events as a launching point for that discussion. They'd be widening the field of debate and explaining why the topic is relevant to normal people. Instead they're taking turns flinging pies in the face of whichever candidate their particular boss doesn't like while raking in millions of views and making everyone angry for no good reason.

The politicians are corrupt, journalism in this country is a plague and I'm tired of everyone around me being sick with the pestilence they're spreading.


Edit: This post is more than just a response to Caltrek. I intend for it to apply to the vast majority of debate around "controversy" of this nature. Get better at spotting propaganda people, lest you become the propagandist.

#4143
caltrek

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@Erowind,

 

I agree with you about the pernicious affect of the military-industrial complex on our system.  I would also add the impacts of the fossil-fuel industrial complex and the prison-industrial complex.  I don't agree that the recent controversy regarding Ukraine should be considered irrelevant.  Presidents simply shouldn't be leveraging their influence over government policy to bully foreign governments into doing opposition research on domestic political rivals.  The next step could very well be those governments fabricating false propaganda to further muddy the waters. There is no way that can be considered a healthy development.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#4144
caltrek

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Trump Finally Has Underlings Who'll Abuse Power to Make Him Happy, Democratic Norms Be Damned

 

https://www.dailykos...norms-be-damned

 

Entire Article:

 

(Daily Kos) We’ve long known that Donald Trump wanted to step outside of the constitutional role of the presidency and rule as an authoritarian. What’s scary is the degree to which we’re now seeing that he has managed to bend the U.S. government into what he wants, despite the constitutional and institutional protections that were supposed to be in place. We saw it when the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration defended Trump’s altered hurricane map over the facts, and we’re seeing it in massively consequential ways as an impeachment inquiry launches.

 

Attorney General William Barr is traveling the globe, meeting with foreign governments, and asking them to undermine U.S. intelligence to satisfy Trump’s obsession with proving that Russia did not interfere to his benefit in the 2016 elections. (Russia very much did.) Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is trying to block current and former State Department officials from testifying to Congress, at the same time as he’s investigating more than 100 other officials for the crime of having emailed then-Secretary Hillary Clinton with information that has been retroactively classified.

 

The Washington Post reports on just how this is happening: Trump has gotten rid of everyone who was in his administration who ever stood up to him even a little. And now “I’m not sure there are many, if any, left who view as their responsibility trying to help educate, moderate, enlighten and persuade — or even advise in many cases,” a former senior official told the Post. “There’s a new ethos: This is a presidency of one.”

 

“He continues to go further and further and further, and now I don’t think there’s anybody telling him, ‘No.’” Yeah, well, from the outside it looks like the way to know who told Trump no is to see who leaves the administration. But increasingly, the degree to which Trump has stocked his administration with loyalists and fanatics means that top officials are actually abusing power to make him happy and—not coincidentally—weaken democratic norms for the long term versus just soothing his ego and carrying out an extreme but arguably lawful Republican agenda.

 

If you’re not frightened, you should be.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#4145
Jessica

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Volker docs bombshell: Top US diplomat said Ukraine aid was withheld 'for help with a political camp
Newly revealed text messages show that the top U.S. diplomat to Ukraine expressed concerns about the Trump administration withholding aid to the country for political purposes.

ABC News reports that the text messages were revealed as part of a document dump by Kurt Volker, who last week resigned as the Trump administration’s special envoy to Ukraine.

In the text exchange obtained by ABC News, Bill Taylor, the top U.S. diplomat to Ukraine, told a group of fellow American diplomats that “I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign,” a reference to the Trump administration’s decision to put a hold on aide to Ukraine.

 




https://abcnews.go.c...ory?id=66039011
https://www.rawstory...tical-campaign/


#4146
starspawn0

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Chapo Trap House podcast on impeachment:

 

Thou, Nature, Art Thy Goddess

 

https://m.soundcloud...hapo-trap-house

 

They seem to find it all so funny, but a bit boring -- "a rerun of the Mueller investigation".  They said that it did, at least, give Trump and his people "a busybox to play with". 

 

Basically, they come off as comically dismissive, and also dismissive of Republicans.  Everyone is a target for hipster laughter and cynicism.



#4147
Erowind

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@Erowind,
 
I agree with you about the pernicious affect of the military-industrial complex on our system.  I would also add the impacts of the fossil-fuel industrial complex and the prison-industrial complex.  I don't agree that the recent controversy regarding Ukraine should be considered irrelevant.  Presidents simply shouldn't be leveraging their influence over government policy to bully foreign governments into doing opposition research on domestic political rivals.  The next step could very well be those governments fabricating false propaganda to further muddy the waters. There is no way that can be considered a healthy development.


It's not healthy but it is expected from where I'm sitting. And it feels minor compared to the vast scope of corruption all the major politicians are involved in. My cynicism (realism?) started kicking in after I realized how big of a deal cambridge analytica was (is) and how the democrats responded to it. The 2016 election was an illegitimate election and no one talks about it or seems to care anymore. I expect the democrats and republicans to lie, spread false narratives and cheat whether through propaganda or censorship on corporate platforms. Not everyone is on the same page there yet. It's still a suprise or a big event for a lot of people when blatent corruption happens. And it gets frustrating to watch these conversations because they don't feel like they're going anywhere. Why aren't we talking about the systemic issues that enable them as a society? Single issue outrage won't get us anywhere. And single issue outrage is also exactly what the algorithms at media outlets want from us in order to gain more views.

On the fabricated outrage grounds alone the topic is moot. The media coverage is completely disproportionate to the event and an honest media would be talking about so many different things and doing its best to distribute coverage as equitably as possible. And that's a big part of why Chapo Trap House is coming off as board and dismissive per Starspawns comment above. Anything political coming out of the media monopolies isn't worth talking about in the way their narrative wants us to talk about it in my opinion.

#4148
Jessica

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Schiff: Trump broke his oath of office in asking China to probe Biden
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. House Intelligence Committee’s chairman, Democrat Adam Schiff, said on Thursday that President Donald Trump broke his oath of office in asking China to probe former Vice President Joe Biden, who could end up running against Trump in the 2020 election.
Link to tweet


PoliticusUSA


#4149
Jessica

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Trump calls for Ukraine, China to investigate Bidens; former Ukraine envoy testifies on Capitol Hill

Source: Washington Post


President Trump on Thursday called on both Ukraine and China to investigate former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter in relation to the younger Biden’s business dealings during the tenure of the former vice president.

He comments came as Kurt D. Volker, who resigned last week as the Trump administration’s special envoy for Ukraine, was being interviewed behind closed doors in front of three House committees, accelerating the Democratic-led impeachment inquiry.

Volker was among the officials mentioned by name in the whistleblower report raising concerns about Trump’s July phone call in which Trump pressed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate former vice president Joe Biden and his son.

In a television interview that aired earlier, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) accused her Republican colleagues of being loyal to President Trump and not the Constitution.

 

Read more: https://www.washingt...f608_story.html



#4150
caltrek

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@Erowind,

 

To respond to you fully, I would have to start repeating myself from earlier posts. So let me just add a couple of points to what I have already said.

 

Think of the current situation as being a little bit like a multiple choice test that involves several possible responses. Something like:

 

 

What do you see as the most pressing problem currently facing our country (or planet)? 

 

1. Global climate change

 

2. Inequality of wealth and income

 

3. Excessive rates of incarceration

 

4. Imperialistic policies and excessive spending on the military industrial complex

 

5. The loss of democracy and respect for democratic institutions by our so-called leaders. An example being the latest scandal involving Trump's discussions with the Ukrainian president

 

6. All of the above

 

7. None of these are a problem because our great and glorious Republican leadership is on top of the situation

 

Now, my choice is all of the above (excluding number seven).  I think you are right that the lame stream media is excessively focused on number five at the expense of many of these other choices (although except for Fox media they do avoid embracing Trump).  Others reading this post might select other problems as the highest priority.

 

By picking all of the above, I can position myself to agree with anybody who picks choices one through five. They are all important problems, and all should be addressed with an appropriate level of resources, including our collective attention. What I get anxious about is a potential decline into sectarianism.  I think all are a problem, so I am all for people endeavoring to solve each and every one of the problems. What we don't need is somebody insisting that their choice is what we should focus exclusively upon, and that the choices everybody else makes are invalid.  Rather than being critical of those more concerned about other issues, we need to form alliances. From such building of alliances, it is hoped, progress can be made on all of these issues (save that of praising the idiot Trump).  There is a synergy that can be gained by addressing all issues.  Strengthening democratic institutions can give us a vehicle to address global climate change. Tackling inequality of income and wealth can result in more resources becoming available some of which can be used to address the problem of global warming (and other forms of environmental degradation). Minimizing negative affects of imperialism and reducing spending on the military-industrial complex can result in diverting resources toward addressing climate change, etc.  

 

Sectarian type arguments that cause unnecessary division need to be avoided. They destroy the possibilities for synergy.  At least IMHO.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#4151
caltrek

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One of the ironies of the current situation that I have yet to see anybody notice:  that the President of Ukraine previous to his election was a comedian.  How appropriate it is that he is so near the center of this scandal.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#4152
Jessica

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Trump raised Biden with Xi in June call housed in highly secure server

Source: CNN


Washington (CNN)When President Donald Trump suggested — without prompting — that China should investigate Joe Biden and his son, he thrust another political grudge into what was already the world's most complicated and consequential relationship.

The move startled Chinese officials, who say they have little interest in becoming embroiled in a US political controversy. And it amounted to the latest extraordinary effort by Trump to openly request political assistance from foreign governments.

Thursday's comments weren't the first time Trump has injected Biden into his relationship with China, though he said Thursday he has never pushed Xi to investigate the former vice president. Nor is it the first time he has sought to trade favors with Xi, who this week celebrated the 70th birthday of his ruling communist party with a note of congratulations from Trump.

During a phone call with Xi on June 18, Trump raised Biden's political prospects as well as those of Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who by then had started rising in the polls, according to two people familiar with the discussion. In that call, Trump also told Xi he would remain quiet on Hong Kong protests as trade talks progressed.

 





Read more: https://www.cnn.com/...rver/index.html



#4153
Jessica

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Trump Envoys Pushed Ukraine to Commit to Investigations

Source: New York Times

 



WASHINGTON — Two of President Trump’s top envoys to Ukraine drafted a statement for the country’s new president in August that would have committed Ukraine to pursuing investigations sought by Mr. Trump into his political rivals, three people briefed on the effort said.

The drafting of the statement marks new evidence of how Mr. Trump’s fixation with Ukraine began driving senior diplomats to bend American foreign policy to the president’s political agenda in the weeks after the July 25 call between the two leaders. The statement was drafted by Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, and Kurt D. Volker, then the State Department’s envoy to Ukraine, according to the three people who have been briefed on it.

Mr. Volker spent Thursday on Capitol Hill being questioned by House investigators as Democrats pursued their impeachment inquiry into Mr. Trump’s actions. He disclosed a set of texts in September in which the top American diplomat in Ukraine, alluding to Mr. Trump’s decision earlier in the summer to freeze a military aid package to the country, told Mr. Sondland and Mr. Volker: “I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.”

After speaking with Mr. Trump, Mr. Sondland texted back that there was no quid pro quo, adding, “I suggest we stop the back and forth by text.” It was not clear if the statement drafted in August by Mr. Sondland and Mr. Volker came up in the closed-door session on Capitol Hill. The statement was written with the awareness of a top aide to the Ukrainian president, as well as Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer and the de facto leader of a shadow campaign to push the Ukrainians to press ahead with investigations that could be of political benefit to Mr. Trump, according to one of the people briefed on it.

 


Read more: https://www.nytimes....mp-ukraine.html



#4154
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'Americans don't look to Chinese commies for the truth': Sasse decries Trump's call for probe Source: Omaha World Herald

By Joseph Morton

WASHINGTON — Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., took issue Thursday with President Donald Trump urging China to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son’s business dealings there. "Hold up: Americans don’t look to Chinese commies for the truth,” Sasse said in a written statement to The World-Herald. “If the Biden kid broke laws by selling his name to Beijing, that’s a matter for American courts, not communist tyrants running torture camps." At the same time, Sasse also offered harsh words for Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. During a hearing last week, Schiff referred to the summary of a phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Schiff presented “the essence of what the president communicates” during the call and spoke as if he were Trump asking Zelensky to manufacture dirt on his political opponent. While Schiff defenders say it was clear he wasn’t providing the president’s exact words, critics have slammed him for spreading misinformation by making up misleading quotes and putting them in Trump’s mouth.

 

Read more: https://www.omaha.co...74f6f5c253.html



#4155
Jessica

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Members of the Intelligence, Oversight and Reform, and Foreign Affairs Committees
Washington, D.C. 20515

Dear Colleagues:

We are writing to convey our grave concerns with the unprecedented actions of President
Donald Trump and his Administration with respect to the House of Representatives’
impeachment inquiry.

The President and his aides are engaging in a campaign of misinformation and
misdirection in an attempt to normalize the act of soliciting foreign powers to interfere in our
elections.

We have all now seen the summary of the call in which President Trump repeatedly
urged the Ukrainian President to launch an investigation into former Vice President Joe Biden—
immediately after the Ukrainian President mentioned critical U.S. military assistance to counter
Russian aggression.

The President claims he did nothing wrong. Even more astonishing, he is now openly
and publicly asking another foreign power—China—to launch its own sham investigation
against the Bidens to further his own political aims.


This is not normal or acceptable. It is unethical, unpatriotic, and wrong. American
Presidents should never press foreign powers to target their domestic political rivals. Engaging
in these stunning abuses in broad daylight does not absolve President Trump of his
wrongdoingswr his grave offenses against the Constitution.

Over the past week, new repoxts have revealed that other Trump Administration officials
also may have been involved in the illicit effort to get Ukrainian help for the President’s
campaign.

For example, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has now admitted that he was on the call
when President Trump explicitly pressed the Ukrainian President to investigate the Bidens—
but failed to report this to the FBI or other law enforcement authorities
. You will recall, FBI
Director Christopher Wray urged individuals to report efforts to seek or receive help from a
foreign power that may intervene in a U.S. presidential election.

This obligation is not diminished when the instigator of that foreign intervention is the
President of the United States; it is all the more crucial to the security of our elections. Instead,
when asked by the media about his own knowledge or participation in the call, Secretary
Pompeo dissembled.

PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER

Likewise, we are investigating reports that Vice President Mike Pence may have been
made aware of the contents of the call, and his absence from the Ukrainian President’s
inauguration may have been related to efforts to put additional pressure on Ukraine to deliver on
the President’s demands,


This week, current and former State Department officials have begun cooperating with
the impeachment inquiry by producing documents and scheduling interviews and depositions.
Based on the first production of materials, it has become immediately apparent why Secretary
Pompeo tried to block these officials from providing information.

The Committees have now obtained text messages from Ambassador Kurt Volker, the
former Special Representative for Ukraine Negotiations, communicating with other officials,
including William B. “Bill” Taylor, the Charge d’Affaires at the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine,
Gordon Sondland, the U.S. Ambassador to the European Union, Andrey Yermak, Aide to
Ukrainian President Zelensky, the President’s agent Rudy Giuliani, and others.

These text messages reflect serious concerns raised by a State Department official about
the detrimental effects of withholding critical military assistance from Ukraine, and the
importance of setting up a meeting between President Trump and the Ukrainian President
without further delay, He also directly expressed concerns that this critical military assistance
and the meeting between the two presidents were being withheld in order to place additienal
pressure 011 Ukraine to deliver on the President’s demand for Ukraine to launch politically
motivated investigations

Earlier today, selected portions of these texts were leaked to the press out of context. In
order to help correct the public record, we are now providing an attachment with more complete
excerpts from the exchanges. The additional excerpts we are providing are still only a subset of
the full body of the materials, which we hope to make public after a review for personally
identifiable information.


Our investigation will continue in the coming days. But we hope every Member of the
House will join us in condemning in the strongest terms the President’s now open defiance of our
core values as American citizens to guard against foreign interference in our democratic process.





Sincerely,
' /
Eliot L. Engel Adam B. Schiff
Chairman Chairman
House Committee on Foreign Affairs House Permanent Select Committee

on Intelligence

Elijah Ev. Cummings

Chairman
House Committee on Oversight and Reform

ATTACHMEN T

Connecting Rudy Giuliani with Ukraine President Zelenskv’s Adviser: On July 19,
Ambassador Volker texted President Trump’s agent, Rudy Giuliani, to thank him for
breakfast and to introduce him to Andrey Yermak, a top advisor to President Zelensky:

[7/19/19, 4:48 PM] Kurt Volker: Mr Mayor — really enjoyed breakfast this
morning. As discussed, connecting you here with Andrey Yermak, who is very
close to President Zelensky. I suggest we schedule a call together on Monday 4
maybe 10am or 11am Washington time? Kurt

Sondland Briefs Zelenskv Ahead of Call with President Trump: On July 19, 2019,
Ambassador Volker, Ambassador Sondland, and Mr. Taylor had the following exchange
about the specific goal for the upcoming telephone call between President Trump and the
Ukrainian Presicient:

[7/ 19/ 1 9, 4:49:42 PM] Kurt Volker: Can we three do a call tomorrow—say noon
WASHINGTON?

[7/ 19/19, 6:50:29 PM] Gordon Sondland: Looks like Potus call tomorrow. I spike
[sic] directly to Zelensky and gave him a full briefing. He’s got it.

[7/19/19, 6:52:57 PM] Gordon Sondland: Sure!

[7/ 1 9/ 19, 7:01 :22 PM] Kurt Volker: Good. Had breakfast with Rudy this
morning—teeing up call w Yennak Monday. Must have helped. Most impt is for
Zelensky to say that he will help investigationwand address any specific
personnel issues4if there are any

Concerns about Ukraine Becoming an “Instrument” in U.S. Politics: On J uly 21,
2019, Ambassador Taylor flagged President Ze1ensky’s desire for Ukraine not to be used
by the Trump Administration for its own domestic political purposes:

[7/21/ 19, 1:45:54 AM] Bill Taylor: Gordon, one thing Kurt and I talked about
yesterday was Sasha Danyliuk’s point that President Zelenskyy is sensitive about
Ukraine being taken seriously, not merely as an instrument in Washington
domestic, reelection politics.

[7/21/19, 4:45:44 AM] Gordon Sondland: Absolutely, but we need to get the
conversation started and the relationship built, irrespective of the pretext. I am
worried about the alternative.

Giuliani Advocates for Trumn-Zelenskv Call: Mr. Yerrnak and Mr. Giuliani agreed to
speak on the morning of July 22. Later that evening, Ambassador Volker informed
Ambassadors Sondland and Taylor that Giuliani was now “advocating” for a phone call
between President Trump and President Zelensky:

[7/22/19 4:27:55 PM] Kurt Volker: Orchestrated a great phone call w Rudy and
Yermak. They are going to get together when Rudy goes to Madrid in a couple of
weeks.

[7/22/ 19 4:28:08 PM] Kurt Volker: In the meantime Rudy is now advocating for
phone call.

[7/22/ 19 4:28:26 PM] Kurt Volker: I have call into Fiona’s replacement and will
call Bolton if needed.

[7/22/19 4:28:48 PM Kurt Volker: But I can tell Bolton and you can tell Mick that
Rudy agrees on a call if that helps.

[7/22/ 19 4:30:10 PM] Gordon Sondland: I talked to Tim Morrison Fiona’s
replacement. He is pushing but feel free as well.

Volker Advises Yermak Ahead of Trump—Zelenskv Call: On the morning of July 25,
2019—ahead of the planned call between President Trump and President Zelensky—
Ambassador Volker advised Andrey Yennak:

[7/25/19, 8:36:45 AM] Kurt Volker: Good lunch ~ thanks. Heard from White
Houseiassuming President Z convinces trump he will investigate / “get to the
bottom of what happened” in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to
Washington. Good luck! See you tomorrow
- kuit

Yermak’s Informal Readout of the Trump—Zeienskv Call: Following President
Trump’s July 25 call, Ambassador Volker received the following readout from Ukrainian
Presidential Adviser Yermak and confirmed his intent to meet Giuliani in Madrid:

[7/25/19, 10:15:06 AM] Andrey Yerrnak: Phone call went well. President Trump
proposed to choose any convenient dates. President Zelenskiy chose 20,21,22
September for the White House Visit. Thank you again for your help! Please
remind Mr. Mayor to share the Madrid’s dates

[7/25/ 19, 10:16:42 AM] Kurt Volker: Great —thanks and will do!

State Department Officials Discuss a White House Visit and Ukraine Statement: On
August 9, 2019, Ambassador Volker had the following exchange with Ambassador
Sondland about arranging a White House meeting after the Ukrainian President makes a

public statement:

[8/9/19, 5: 35:53 PM] Gordon Sondland: Morrison ready to get dates as soon as
Yermak confirms.

[8/9/ 19, 5: 46:21 PM] Kurt Volker: Excellent” How did you sway him? 2)

[8/9/ 19, 5: 47:34 PM] Gordon Sondland: Not sure i did. I think potus really wants
the deliverable

[8/9/19, 5: 48:00 PM] Kurt Volker: But does he know that?
[8/9/19, 5: 48:09 PM] Gordon Sondland: Yep
[8/9/ 19, 5: 48:37 PM] Gordon Sondland: Clearly lots of convos going on

[8/9/ 19, 5:48:38 PM] Kurt Volker: Ok—then that’s good it’s coming from two
separate sources

[8/9/ 19, 5: 51:18 PM] Gordon Sondland: To avoid misundestandings, might be
helpful to ask Andrey for a draft statememt (embargoed) so that we can see
exactly what they propose to cover. Even though Ze does a live presser they can
still summarize in a brief statement. Thoughts?

[8/9/ 19, 5: 51:42 PM] Kurt Volker: Agree!

State Department Officials Seek Giuliani’s Guidance on Ukraine Statement: On
August 9, 2019, after Mr. Giuliani met with President Zelensky’s aide Andrey Yerrnak,
Ambassador Volker asked to speak with Mr. Giuliani about the Ukranian statement:

[8/9/ 19, 11:27 AM] Kurt Volker: Hi Mr Mayor! Had a good chat with Yermak
last night. He was pleased with your phone call. Mentioned Z making a statement.
Can we all get on the phone to make sure I advise Z correctly as to what he should
be saying? Want to make sure we get this done right. Thanks!


Gordon Sondland: Good idea Kurt. I am on Pacific time.
Rudy Giuliani: Yes can you call now going to Fundraiser at 12:30

Ukrainian Aide Seeks White House Date First: On August 10, 2019, President
Zelensky’s aide, Andrey Yermak, pressed Ambassador Volker for a date for the White
House Visit before committing to a statement announcing an investigation explicitly
referencing the 2016 election and Burisma:

[8/ 10/ 19, 4:56: 15 PM] Andrey Yermak: Hi Kurt. Please let me know when you
can talk. I think it’s possible to make this declaration and mention all these things.
Which we discussed yesterday. But it will be logic to do after we receive a
confirmation of date. We inform about date of visit and about our expectations
and our giarantees for future Visit. Let discuss it

[8/10/19, 5:01 :32 PM] Kurt Volker: 0k! It’s late for you—why don’t we talk in
my morning, your afternoon tomorrow? Say 10am/5pm?

[8/1 0/ 19, 5:02:18 PM] Kurt Volker: I agree with your approach. Let’s iron out
statement and use that to get date and then PreZ can go forward with it?


[8/10/19, 5:26:17 PM] Andrey Yennak: Ok

[8/10/19, 5:38:43 PM] Kurt Volker: Great. Gordon is available to join as well
[8/10/19, 5:41 :45 PM] Andrey Yermak: Excellent

[8/10/ 19, 5:42: 10 PM] Andrey Yermak: Once we have a date, will call for a press
briefing, announcing upcoming visit and outlining vision for the reboot of US-
UKRAINE relationship, including among other things Burisma and election
meddling in investigations


[8/10/19, 5:42:30 PM] Kurt Volker: Sounds great!

Discussion of Ukrainian Statement to Include References to 2016 Election and
Burisma: Following the August 9, 2019, outreach to Rudy Giuliani, Ambassador Volker
and Ambassador Sondland on August 13, 2019, had following exchange regarding the
proposed Ukrainian statement:

[8/ 13/ 1 9, 10:26:44 AM] Kurt Volker: Special attention should be paid to the
problem of interference in the political processes of the United States especially
with the alleged involvement of some Ukrainian politicians. I want to declare that
this is unacceptable. We intend to initiate and complete a transparent and
unbiased investigation of all available facts and episodes, including those
involving Burisma and the 2016 U.S. elections, which in turn will prevent the
recurrence of this problem in the future.

[8/ 13/ 19, 10:27:20 AM] Gordon Sondland: Perfect. Lets send to Andrey after our
call

Confirming Desire to Reference 2016 Election and Burisma: On August 17, 2019,
Ambassadors Volker and Sondland had the following exchange in which they discussed
their message to Ukraine:

[8/ 17/ 19, 3:06:19 PM] Gordon Sondland: Do we still want Ze to give us an
unequivocal draft with 2016 and Boresrna?

[8/17/19, 4:34:21 PM] Kurt Volker: That’s the clear message so far

[8/ 1 7/ 19, 4:34:39 PM] Kurt Volker: I’m hoping we can put something out there
that causes him to respond with that

[8/17/19, 4:41 :09 PM] Gordon Sondland: Unless you think otherwise I will return
Andreys call tomorrow and suggest they send us a clean draft.

Ukrainian Official Shares Press Report of U.S. Withholdimw Military Assistance:
On August 28, President Zelensky’s aide, Andrey Yermak, texted Ambassador Volker a
news story entitled, “Trump Holds Up Ukraine Military Aid Meant to Confront Russia”:

[8/29/ 19, 2:28:19 AM] Andrey Yermak: Need to talk with you

{8/29/19, 3:06:14 AM] Andrey Yennak:
https://www.politico...tary-aid-russia

1689531

[8/29/19, 6:55:04 AM] Kurt Volker: Hi Andrey — absolutely. When is good for
you?

President Trump Cancels Trip to Meet President Zelenskv: On August 30,
Ambassador Taylor informed Ambassador Volker that President Trump had canceled his
planned Visit to Warsaw, Poland, where he was to meet with President Zelensky.
Ambassadors Volker and Sondland discussed an alternative plan for Vice President
Pence to meet with President Zelensky on September 1:

[8/30/19, 12:14:57 AM] Bill Taylor: Trip canceled

[8/3 0/19, 12:16:02 AM] Kurt Volker: Hope VPOTUS keeps the bilat 4 and tees
up WH visit. ..

[8/30/19, 12:16:18 AM] Kurt Volker: And hope Gordon and Perry still going...

[8/30/19, 5:31:14 AM] Gordon Sondland: I am going. Pompeo is speaking to
Potus today to see if he can go.

On September 1, Ambassador Taylor sought clarification of the requirements for a White
House visit:


[9/ 1/ 19, 12:08:57 PM] Bill Taylor: Are we now saying that security assistance
and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?


[9/1/19, 12:42:29 PM] Gordon Sondland: Call me

State Department Officials on Security Assistance and the Ukraine “Interview”: On
September 8, Ambassador Taylor, Ambassador Sondland, and Ambassador Volker had

the following exchange:

[9/8/19, 11:20:32 AM] Gordon Sondland: Guys multiple convos with Ze, Potus,
Lets talk

[9/8/19, 1 1:21:41 AM] Bill Taylor: Now is fine with me

[9/8/19, 1 1:26:13 AM] Kurt Volker: Try again—could not hear

[9/8/ 19, 11:40:1 1 AM] Bill Taylor: Gordon and I just spoke. I can brief you if you
and Gordon don’t connect

[9/8/ 19, 12:37:28 PM] Bill Taylor: The nightmare is they give the interview and
don’t get the security assistance. The Russians love it. (And I quit.)


0 State Degartment Officials on Withholding Securig Assistance: On September 9,
2019, Ambassador Taylor and Ambassador Sondland had the following exchange

regarding the withholding of military assistance to Ukraine:

[9/9/ 19, 12:31:06 AM] Bill Taylor: The message to the Ukrainians (and Russians)
we send with the decision on security assistance is key. With the hold, we have
already shaken their faith in us. Thus my nightmare scenario.


[9/9/19, 12:34:44 AM] Bill Taylor: Counting on you to be right about this
interview, Gordon.

[9/9/ 19, 12:37:16 AM] Gordon Sondland: Bill, [never said I was “right”. I said
we are where we are and believe we have identified the best pathway forward.
Lets hope it works.

[9/9/19, 12:47: 11 AM] Bill Taylor: As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to
withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign:

[9/9/ 19, 5:19:35 AM] Gordon Sondland: Bill, Ibelieve you are incorrect about
President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear no quid pro
quo’s of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly
going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised
during his campaign I suggest we stop the back and forth by text If you still have
concerns I recommend you give Lisa Kenna or S a call to discuss them directly.
Thanks.

 



#4156
starspawn0

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In the latest "Useful Idiots" podcast, Matt Taibbi asks, "Is that really an impeachable offense?"; and also asks, "What's the point?" He mentions how impeachment will lead to a non-stop reality show, and probably won't make it through the Senate. All a big farce by the delusional establishment Democrats trying to continue the failed Russiagate investigation:

 

https://www.stitcher...iots/e/64342705

(October 3 episode)

Skip to about 22 to 23 minutes in to hear.



#4157
Jessica

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Amid the ongoing impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump and his administration's actions regarding Ukraine, the Pentagon's chief legal officer has requested that Defense Department agencies identify, preserve and collect any and all documents relating to the provision of security assistance to Kiev.

"I write to request your assistance and cooperation in identifying, preserving, and collecting documents and other records regarding the (Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative) and in responding to anticipated requests for such materials," Paul Ney, the General Counsel of the Department of Defense, wrote in a memo Thursday to various agencies and services within the Pentagon.

 

 



#4158
Jessica

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BREAKING: Committees Seek Ukraine Documents from Vice President
Committees Seek Ukraine Documents from Vice President
Oct 4, 2019
Press Release


Washington, D.C. (Oct. 4, 2019)—Today, Rep. Adam Schiff, the Chairman of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Rep. Eliot L. Engel, the Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Affairs, and Rep. Elijah E. Cummings, the Chairman of the Committee on Oversight and Reform, sent a letter requesting key documents from Vice President Michael Pence as part of the House of Representatives’ impeachment inquiry of President Donald Trump.

“Pursuant to the House of Representatives’ impeachment inquiry, we are hereby requesting that you produce the documents set forth in the accompanying schedule by October 15, 2019,” the Chairmen wrote.


The Committees are investigating the extent to which President Trump jeopardized national security by pressing Ukraine to interfere with our 2020 election and by withholding security assistance provided by Congress to help Ukraine counter Russian aggression, as well as any efforts to cover up these matters.

“Recently, public reports have raised questions about any role you may have played in conveying or reinforcing the President’s stark message to the Ukrainian President,” the Chairmen wrote. “The reports include specific references to a member of your staff who may have participated directly in the July 25, 2019, call, documents you may have obtained or reviewed, including the record of the call, and your September 1, 2019, meeting with the Ukrainian President in Warsaw, during which you reportedly discussed the Administration’s hold on U.S. security assistance to Ukraine.”


This request is being made jointly by the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, the Committee on Foreign Affairs, and the Committee on Oversight and Reform under the Rules of the House of Representatives in exercise of their oversight and legislative jurisdiction.

“The Committees are seeking the documents in the attached schedule in order to examine this sequence of events, including the Administration’s attempts to press the Ukrainian President to open an investigation into former Vice President Biden or election interference in 2016, and the reasons behind the White House’s decision to delay critical military assistance to Ukraine that was appropriated by Congress to counter Russian aggression,” the Chairmen concluded.

 

 


Click hereto read the letter to Vice President Pence (PDF)

Issues:
Administration, Defense & National Security, Impeachment Inquiry
116th Congress

https://oversight.ho...-vice-president


#4159
eacao

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May God bless Mr. Trump in these trying times. Caltrek, Phoenix, Jessica, Star, Outlook, please let us all join together in a minute of prayer for our valiant leader.

 

family-praying-together.jpg


If you're going through hell, keep going. - Winston Churchill

You don't decide your future. You decide your habits, and your habits decide your future.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. - Abraham Lincoln.


#4160
Outlook

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God, Our father thou who art in thoust heaven, please allow Trump the strength, the restitute, and the patience to get through these trying times, who suffer for our sins and whose the closest to jesus today and that Pelosi can suck BIG FAt
Outlook's secret song of the ~week: https://youtu.be/Gnyr3sbdKkU





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