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Idea: Computer simulated universe with time dilation


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#1
Ericthetrekkie

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Here’s an idea for immortality: You launch a satellite that orbits earth a few thousand miles up. It runs a massive computer simulation of the entire observable universe. 538 people have uploaded their minds to there prior to launch, and others can have theirs beamed up to the satellite at a later time if they want, for an initial cost of 3-6 million. In the simulation, 300 million years pass for every second in the real world. What this means is that after only an hour of running the simulated universe within the satellite, the occupants have experienced a trillion years of immortal life.

Would this work at all? What kind of computing power would this even require?

#2
Alislaws

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um...

 

Why put it in a satellite?

 

Why 538 people?

 

Why simulate the entire universe? I am pretty sure that you would need more matter/energy to accurately simulate the whole universe, than is contained in the universe. You would only need, at most, one planet per person at any given time (assuming people stayed on planets, if they went tot space then that's even easier to simulate)

 

300,000,000 years per second is an insane rate even ignoring the requires "more matter and energy to simulate than exists" issue.

 

Interestingly I am reading a litrpgnovel where they are trapped in a VRMMO and there is a 30 minute patch. But as part of the patch the AI has ramped up time dilation to the point where, to them, it will take 360 years before they can disconnect. 

 

How did you get to a price of 3-6 million ($?)?

 

My guess is: 

Would this work at all?​ No

What kind of computing power would this even require? more than can physically exist (unless we find a way to leave our universe and pull matter an energy from other ones)

 

EDIT: Ah, I missed that you didn't say it would be an accurate or total simulation. But still with that speed and that area its much more computing power than we have on earth, (if it is accurate enough to provide a realistic life for uploaded people)


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#3
funkervogt

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Yes, AGIs and uploaded humans will be able to think really fast and to do things in virtual worlds, some of which will closely resemble our own. As a result, the pace of innovation will sharply increase since an AI scientist could do, say, 1,000 years of research in a virtual laboratory in a few minutes. 

 

Some guy named Kurzweil used to talk about this. He had a name for the moment in time when the transition from dumb, slow humans doing stuff to AGI doing the same things at super-speed happened. What was it now...?


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#4
Hyndal_Halcyon

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for this to occur, we first would have to reach the omega point. that is, upload ourselves into a computer whose hardware and software is based on the physics of the grand unified theory. basically turn the universe into a computer and upload ourselves into that universe/computer. once civilization/computers/universe becomes one entity, we can use all of our available computing power to simulate another universe like the one we're in, but run it at a plausibly faster rate. inside that simulated universe, we can reinsert our civilization and play with it however we see fit. you can repeat the process, until our civilization/computer/universe is simulating itself within levels too deep, too fast to comprehend by those still living outside the nested simulations.

 

p.s. I think I just discovered God, a.k.a. exponential computational power via dilated frames of references within recursive realities 


As you can see, I'm a huge nerd who'd rather write about how we can become a Type V civilization instead of study for my final exams (gotta fix that).

But to put an end to this topic, might I say that the one and only greatest future achievement of humankind is when it finally becomes posthumankind.


#5
Omosoap

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^

I have pondered that the universe we are currently in has a possibility of being a creation of advanced intelligences that got bored in their own universe and created another one, and that it is like one of those pictures where a person is painting a painting of a person painting a painting of a person painting a painting etc. Also, in my theory, "the gods" as we describe them as humans are actually references to intelligences that are highly advanced that interact with our universe on one level or another, same goes with the supernatural...it's a different environment that interacts with ours, but the two are never able to interact in an obvious way due to laws of interaction inaccessible by science due to its dubious nature. In my religious beliefs, I am both monotheistic and polytheistic, in the sense that the "god" is the system within which all the minds exist, and I'm polytheistic in the sense that the "gods" or "spirits" that people interact with (whether you believe they are products of mind or what have you) are sometimes (not always) advanced beings that have mastered things we can't begin to imagine, and so they are able to interact with other intelligences, within limits. I know, my religious beliefs are crazy, but...shrug. I've had evidence that my theory is correct, but my evidence was supernatural experiences for me and not so much scientific, at least not easily provable beyond minor things. It was convincing to me, but I'm not trying to convince anyone else. I'm content as is. 



#6
Hyndal_Halcyon

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^
We should start a religion. One where we worship gods by becoming gods ourselves and then joining them.

As you can see, I'm a huge nerd who'd rather write about how we can become a Type V civilization instead of study for my final exams (gotta fix that).

But to put an end to this topic, might I say that the one and only greatest future achievement of humankind is when it finally becomes posthumankind.


#7
Omosoap

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^

 

I think in some ways, in my religious view, that is eventually what happens. Because once you reach a certain level of intelligence, the "gods" no longer demand to be worshipped by humans, but instead desire interaction or further instruction/teaching, kind of like a friendship where both are mutually benefitted in a deeper way. And, even if you think I'm completely nuts, I believe humans, once reaching a certain level of intelligence would do the same thing with beings of lower intelligence that are slowly growing. Of course there are always some who would just want to cause chaos and trouble, but ah well, life wouldn't be interesting without the trouble makers. 



#8
Omosoap

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Eh, you know what? I'll just share my supernatural experience, take it or leave it. Well, one day I had a personal crisis when I was Agnostic, and I decided to give prayer a try. I'd always been hearing the Agnostic and Atheist community saying they try praying and it never works, so theres evidence god doesn't exist. Except, when I prayed, I prayed to the Universal Mind (just a generalized name I gave to the system I believed existed). My theory was that it delivers messages to other minds on the network, kind of like how the internet works except more complicated. I asked for two things, one, I asked for the power that people had told me I supposedly had to be returned to me, and I asked to know who I really was. When I woke up that morning I was eager for something to happen, but nothing did, so disappointedly, I gave up the idea, and said, it must not be true. Well, that's that, and went about my day at work. Well, in the afternoon at work, I suddenly got slammed with energy out of nowhere, it made me dizzy and I felt like I was walking on a ship in the middle of the ocean. I kept on smiling and I couldn't stop myself (I rarely ever spontaneously smile, especially at work). This energy was strong and powerful, and the craziest part is, it has never left me, I still have it. Some days it is stronger than others, but it is always there. It's like, a constant thrumming, like waves constantly crashing and receding, sometimes gentler, sometimes rougher. I used to never be able to get through a whole days work without being completely exhausted mentally, emotionally and physically. But, now, even when I'm physically exhausted, it's like I have this other energy that continues to buoy me up throughout the day. I don't know how to explain it. I feel stronger with the energy, even if I'm the same strength I've always been. My boss also noticed I had changed within the exact time frame that this happened. I became more confident and walked more with a sure gait. Also, I've never done any drugs, I don't drink energy drinks, I hadn't changed my diet or water drinking habits, I hadn't drank any alcholic drinks for quite a while (and when I do it's the tiniest of sips), and there were no changes in sleep schedules, or really anything for that matter. So, anyway, that's the supernatural experience that I can't explain and the best one I have (the others I'm convinced of but are not as convincing to anyone else). 



#9
Raklian

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 So, anyway, that's the supernatural experience that I can't explain and the best one I have (the others I'm convinced of but are not as convincing to anyone else). 

 

Humans have an irrational tendency to call anything supernatural for which they have no explanation for. If we go by the definition of a supernatural event, once we understand it in its entirety, it's no longer a supernatural force, correct?

 

It sounds like you weren't a serious agnostic when you thought you were, otherwise you wouldn't have entertained the idea of praying to begin with. True agnostics/atheists are a breed of their own due to their unique circumstances that came about by chance. I'm not saying this to discount your poignant moment you had with your shift in belief because I know that our own experiences, whether they're irrational or not, are very real to us, thus have a deep, lasting impact on us.

 

In any case, a lot of people aren't as agnostic as they think they are. It's part of the human psychology (as a result of millions of years of evolution) to have the desire to believe in something beyond this mundane and repetitive existence. It's one facet of the survival instinct, or an equilibrium point between having pure animal instinct and a prefrontal cortex that give us the ability to think. 

 

In other words, belief is the brain's defense mechanism against the contrasting clash between instinct and rational thought. It's like a sliding scale - you can't have one compartment reserved for instinct and another for the ability to think, with a wall between these two boxes. The mechanism for belief is that very wall, only that it's not really an impassable wall - more like a gradient that shares common characteristics between the contents in those two boxes.   

 

If someone tells you they don't believe in anything, it's either that they're lying to themselves or blind to the meaning of what it means to believe. In fact, it is usually the case when one says he doesn't believe, he's automatically (knee-jerkily so) thinking of the myth of God for which a lot of people share the belief in. You could say he is rebelling that mainstream belief. He has personal, largely emotional, reasons for that. That is not to say he doesn't believe in ANYTHING. In fact, he already believes strongly that sharing a similar belief with a majority or large segment of the population is a wasted, misguided effort and lessens one's own worth.

 

Everyone has something they could believe in but not everyone recognizes they do.  :prankster:


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#10
Hyndal_Halcyon

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 So, anyway, that's the supernatural experience that I can't explain and the best one I have (the others I'm convinced of but are not as convincing to anyone else). 

 

In other words, belief is the brain's defense mechanism against the contrasting clash between instinct and rational thought. It's like a sliding scale - you can't have one compartment reserved for instinct and another for the ability to think, with a wall between these two boxes. The mechanism for belief is that very wall, only that it's not really a wall - more like a gradient.    :prankster:

 

Couldn't agree more, so why not glorify and reinforce that defense mechanism into something a little more tangible? Why make walls of loosely tied beliefs when we can build metaphorical doors that can easily control how a thought affects every other thought?

 

I'm saying let's build God altogether. Let's hurry up and marry quantum physics with relativity already into a nice single equation for objectively describing everything, so that we can finally be able to re-describe everything as ourselves. And in that same line of thinking, let's marry instinct and rationality in a way such that human nature integrates the mechanical, multifaceted efficiency offered by the artificial intelligences we birthed. 

Why believe in the supernatural, when natural is already just as super?


As you can see, I'm a huge nerd who'd rather write about how we can become a Type V civilization instead of study for my final exams (gotta fix that).

But to put an end to this topic, might I say that the one and only greatest future achievement of humankind is when it finally becomes posthumankind.


#11
Omosoap

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Yeah, to be honest, I think very few Agnostics are truly "pure Agnostics." I read about arguments about prayer a lot on Agnostic/Atheist boards hence why I'm sure most of them that talk about that stuff and argue about it seriously are not pure this or that. And yeah, belief is a powerful thing. Everyone believes in something like you said. Of course, you will react to my supernatural experience that way, because to Agnostics and Atheists, it is surely just all in my brain, even though, at the time, I had given up the belief that anything would happen, so when something did happen, I was taken completely by surprise (plus I didn't expect that to be the response). But, eh, I'm not bothered by people thinking I'm crazy or its all in my head. I figure, if they are Agnostic or Atheist, they are wired to be that way, and if they are not, it's the same. We are all wired to be a certain way. It's no threat to me. Besides, it is amazing how quickly things can change and develop in one way or another. Anyway, glad I could contribute to the discussion in my own quirky way. Lol!



#12
Omosoap

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Also, technically speaking we, as humans, are "gods in training" in a sense. I mean, as soon as an intelligent being has the capacity to interact with the environment and understand that they are changing it, to me that is the time when they transition from a lower conscious being to a "god in training." Once they've reached kardashev level 1, they are essentially a god, even if they are not fully, they have planetary control and that's a god according to some. However, with being a god comes great responsibility that I'm not sure we as humans fully can deal with right now.

 

And, another thing, asking why be supernatural when you can be a god...well, it's kind of like asking why do art if it serves no point? Maybe people who enjoy interacting or believing in the supernatural are just expressing a part of themselves that is hard to express otherwise. So, I guess my response would be why restrict people who want to believe in something if it doesn't cause harm? If it's giving them joy, health, and teaching them important life lessons, enabling them to be kinder to others and more confident, and giving them something to live for, then why not let them have it? It's like trying to restrict video gaming. Yeah its fake, yeah, it can do damage, but do you really want to get rid of all video gaming just because of those two reasons? Some people really enjoy it and it becomes almost a religion to them. What's wrong with that? Yeah there are extremists, but I've seen extremists in so many different things that I think it's a trait of humanity. If we didn't have religion, we would still be tribal, irrational, and create religions over books and movies (and getting extremist over it) etc, while at the same time creating many amazing things through science as well. So, I guess I say, why not?



#13
Omosoap

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Ugh, text errors. Corrections: I meant to say why believe in the supernatural when you can be a god, but also the original statement was why focus on the supernatural when the natural is just as amazing? I'd say in this case, nature is amazing, hence I include it in my spirituality, etc. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, but at the same time, people can be amazed at nature without bringing in the supernatural, but some just choose to see the supernatural due to personal experience. That's most of what it amounts to. I have to say, for me, giving meaning and practices behind the natural world has ironically made me more in tune with the rhythms of the earth. If someone asks, I can now always say what phase the moon is in, sometimes I can even know what kind of astronomical events are going on. I also pay more attention to the trees, the birds, every little detail outside. It helps me appreciate things more. Spirituality isn't needed to appreciate these things, but for me it has put emphasis I lacked in Agnosticism, and also made things easier to pay attention to and memorize. In my spiritual practice, I believe the earth is sacred and that everything is connected in a sense. I also will eventually be taking more serious strides towards sustainability. I try to do little things always, but mostly in the future I will strive for balance. Also, I must say, for me, giving a personality to nature has kind of helped me feel more connected to it and respectful of it, at least to some small degree (hopefully more in the future). As you can probably guess from all this spiel, my beliefs align most closely to the broad umbrella of Paganism, so I have essentially converted to that religion almost from the get go. Yes, I know it is essentially made up and only from 50 years ago or so. Yes, I know most people seem utterly nuts in that religion, but actually I love it. I fit right in with all the weirdos. Lol! Besides, it's given me a healthier view of myself. I see all the cultural parts of myself and embrace them all. Those from my heritage, those from my past, etc. What I read one time has stuck with me, one person compared Pagans to the Hobbits in Lord of the Rings. I laughed because that does seem to fit so well. So yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now. It's had a net positive effect on me regardless. I feel happier most days, I'm more confident, my depression is way less, I feel connected, purposeful, and with a community. Sad to say, the Agnostic community and Atheist community were not very welcoming, mainly because they are so suspicious, and they don't really do well as a community because most of what they are is opposed to things, so learning to be for things is more difficult. I still feel as if I can explore information to my hearts content, I just choose to believe in this because of my personal experience that will convince no one else. I am learning to treat other people from outside my beliefs better too, because I see them as people wired to be the way they are, for the most part, or at the very least on their own journey, and I see no need to convert them to my path, because that would be silly. People usually just stumble into this religion or are brought up into it, it's not really evangelistic at all, probably partly because it is so weird. Lol! My rough around the edges parts are from my past religion and nonreligion, so those are the parts of me that are still adjusting to this new way of life. But, all in all, I've found a path that works for me, and helps me be healthier and happier. I wouldn't change it for the world. 






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