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The Advent of Reverse Engineered Personalities


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#1
Outlook

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Wouldn't human-level+ AI, at least for a good while, be based on human copies before we acquire the knowledge to build AI from scratch? In that way we'd be making copies of people's neural configurations, and then modifying when in some synthetic body.

We’ll probably be doing this with mice and chimps first, of course, but when we want AI for games and stuff, it seems hard to believe that we'll syntheize personalities from scratch. Or if we do, how do we create a memory of an NPC surviving a dragon attack on her own village? It's for this reason I think neuro-engineering will be a highly demanded profession in the future; knowing how to build and modify a synthetic person will be something everybody will want in the future.

Thoughts?


  • Erowind and Enter Ataraxia like this

The Prophet (saw) said: He who does not thank the people is not thankful to Allah.

 

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#2
Enter Ataraxia

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I am trying to think about this. Potentially the first AI would be modeled after simulations of different deceased humans. A human who is about to die or who is alive for that matter may have their consciousness simulated. The scientists who implement AI will know if their system is operating properly when the AI can emulate the simulated mind. For this to occur AI would have to have some general guidelines that permit the full range of behaviors and mind-driving-processes observed in humans. I do not think that a select few humans or many would be used as the foundation for AI but would rather be used as test cases or training cases for the AI to refine itself further. Maybe that is what Google is doing; potentially, Google may be using each person in its search engine as a node for an AI to grow and refine itself. How much one can actually learn of consciousness from online activity I do not know, but the possibility still exists. Of course simulations would first occur in lab animals. Though debated (and it is usually take in extraordinary news with skepticism), scientists have partially imaged many of the connections  in a fruit fly's brain; this was not a simulation but somewhat close to one. We are still a long ways off from simulating a human brain or even understanding the process underlying consciousness. I hope this offers some food for thought.

 

-Trevor 


  • Outlook likes this

"Utopia is the hope that the scattered fragments of good that we come across from time to time in our lives can be put together, one day, to reveal the shape of a new kind of life. The kind of life that yours should have been." - Bostrom

 


#3
Alislaws

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I'm not sure that simulating a human consciousness will be easier than coming up with a machine consciousness, it will depend on weather the complexity of human personalities emerges from fairly simple and consistent underlying structures through the brain, or if it is full of specialist regions and functions which would all need to be mapped and replicated to produce a functioning consciousness. 



#4
Outlook

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I'm not sure that simulating a human consciousness will be easier than coming up with a machine consciousness, it will depend on weather the complexity of human personalities emerges from fairly simple and consistent underlying structures through the brain, or if it is full of specialist regions and functions which would all need to be mapped and replicated to produce a functioning consciousness.


It's pretty hard to map out the human personality because much of our personalities and behaviours are not only determined by shit like emotion, but also by chaotic environmental factors and memory. How we react matters a lot on what we information we gather. For example, reading the name of an author somewhere with positive reinforcement may make you search up that author later on when you want a new book to read, only for that book or author to become changing/additional to your identity and beliefs.

But personality does go deeper than that. I've read plenty of books and still have been an asshat since day one. Those things still do matter on environmental influence. Upbringing, emotional trama. The way your emotions interact with your neocortex that is basically roamed by memory.

I don't know, it just seems impossible to build a personality from scratch easily. Especially if turns out the structure of the neurons in our brains are as "random" as final weight configurations in a neural network.
  • Alislaws likes this

The Prophet (saw) said: He who does not thank the people is not thankful to Allah.

 

Song to cure depression: https://youtu.be/9eCOLWnD5VM


#5
Enter Ataraxia

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I'm not sure that simulating a human consciousness will be easier than coming up with a machine consciousness, it will depend on weather the complexity of human personalities emerges from fairly simple and consistent underlying structures through the brain, or if it is full of specialist regions and functions which would all need to be mapped and replicated to produce a functioning consciousness. 

 

I believe the mechanisms underpinning consciousness are more in line with the former of the two ideas you proposed. The human mind is an ideal example of complexity; our brains are made up many similar parts, yet the sum of these parts functioning together produces spectrums of mind and consciousness the likes of which are not seen anywhere else on Earth. Maybe the human mind will be simulated one day...it may be the case that different regions or even small volumes of brain are simulated in isolation. While the foundation of the brain is simple, the complexity that emerges from the interplay of its various regions far exceeds our ability to simulate it, at least for now. A machine consciousness may initially be simple, later refining itself based on the collective input of human data or the simulated minds of other, less complex, organisms. Overall, it is an interesting topic and I am excited to (hopefully) witness unfold in my lifetime.

 

-Trevor 


  • Alislaws likes this

"Utopia is the hope that the scattered fragments of good that we come across from time to time in our lives can be put together, one day, to reveal the shape of a new kind of life. The kind of life that yours should have been." - Bostrom

 


#6
Hyndal_Halcyon

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Wow. It's all coming up, Humanity, huh? It's fun how being an Engineer of Souls might just be a real job title. 

 

I agree with Enter Ataraxia thinking that we'd start small, by simulating animal personalities first. They may not personalities as complex as the ones we have, just a bunch of modularized sets of instincts, like a mix-and-match sensation-response correspondence minigame with a drag-and-drop interface. Who knows, maybe one day NPC-to-player interactions in Full-dive VR will become indistinguishable from player-player and NPC-NPC ones. Anybody ever watched 1st episode of Sword Art Online's 3rd season? Or how about the whole of Log Horizon?

 

And like everything else, this would definitely raise ethical concerns. Once we get too good at this kind of craft (like the Engineer of Souls) what traits should reverse-engineered personalities have for them to be considered persons and given rights?

 

Again, who knows. Maybe games can have NPC's too sophisticated to be considered just a game.


  • Enter Ataraxia likes this

As you can see, I'm a huge nerd who'd rather write about how we can become a Type V civilization instead of study for my final exams (gotta fix that).

But to put an end to this topic, might I say that the one and only greatest future achievement of humankind is when it finally becomes posthumankind.


#7
Enter Ataraxia

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And like everything else, this would definitely raise ethical concerns. Once we get too good at this kind of craft (like the Engineer of Souls) what traits should reverse-engineered personalities have for them to be considered persons and given rights?

 

Again, who knows. Maybe games can have NPC's too sophisticated to be considered just a game.

 

When something ethically semi-permissible exists in a society, there will nonetheless be people who will use it, despite the qualms of others who eschew it. And if such a thing is very powerful, as will simulating sensation, minds, etc.. be, then those who avoid such a thing will eventually and inadvertently have to cope with it when it transcends its niche realm of being somewhat impermissible and leaks into the lives of those who wanted nothing of it. They may simply have to deal with it or accept it. When we think about technologies of this nature, we often fail to recognize that many such technologies have already leaked into our lives and been forgotten; their controversies have been washed out by practically and widespread use, although their use may be occasionally seen ethically wrong. Such a concept that may soon come to fruition in our society is genetical modified humans. No one may admit to using it for fear of being seen as a poor person yet many people will probably use it for the edge it brings to their offspring's  future. Potentially, genetic engineering will become the new norm as cars, guns, and phones have at one point. Whoever cannot adapt will be forgotten by time. The boundaries between escapist fantasies and reality are eroding away somewhat fast (this can be further explored in the VR thread). What is considered a game versus what is considered your biological life may a very difficult thing to distinguish or delimit. We think of games and normal life as distinct in the term of our culture today; however, at another time, the concept of game may be trivial, but this we cannot fully know. We must consider it a possibility that one of the future's "games" is so immersive it is the equivalent of an ordinary life out of screen (in modern terms). Anyway, cool point. I unfortunately wrote this while in my Data Structures class but it was worth it.

 

-Trevor


"Utopia is the hope that the scattered fragments of good that we come across from time to time in our lives can be put together, one day, to reveal the shape of a new kind of life. The kind of life that yours should have been." - Bostrom

 





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