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'American Dying' cooled Earth's climate


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#1
wjfox

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'American Dying' cooled Earth's climate

 

Colonisation of the Americas at the end of the 15th Century killed so many people, it disturbed Earth's climate.
 
That's the conclusion of scientists from University College London, UK.
 
The team says the disruption that followed European settlement led to a huge swathe of abandoned agricultural land being reclaimed by fast-growing trees and other vegetation.
 
This pulled down enough carbon dioxide (CO₂) from the atmosphere to eventually chill the planet.
 
It's a cooling period often referred to in the history books as the "Little Ice Age" - a time when winters in Europe would see the Thames in London regularly freeze over.
 
 
 
_105406069_wais_icecore.jpg

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#2
Alislaws

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Finally, a solution to global warming that's even less popular than "accepting some slowdown in GDP growth" or "Paying Carbon Taxes"


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#3
FrogCAT

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Where's Thanos when you need him

 

 

 

But seriously, that is very interesting(and disturbing). So many people died that a mini ice age happened. I wonder how many deaths it would take to have the same effect now.


Edited by FrogCAT, 31 January 2019 - 05:00 PM.

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#4
Jakob

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Now we know why the Loony Liberals worship communism...it kills so many people it will stop global warming!



#5
caltrek

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Now we know why the Loony Liberals worship communism...it kills so many people it will stop global warming!

 

 

In that case there would be no need for further activism as capitalism is doing the work of killing millions. Maybe not yet, but certainly on the horizon.


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The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#6
Ewolf20

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or just stop having kids and go vegan? no need in killing off people..

 

though thanos is right



#7
Alislaws

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55million people die every year and as far as I know the only planned economies left are Cuba, NK and Zimbabwe at this point right? 

 

It's the UCL group's estimate that 60 million people were living across the Americas at the end of the 15th Century (about 10% of the world's total population), and that this was reduced to just five or six million within a hundred years.

 

 

So capitalism is getting pretty close, but unfortunately the impactor on climate change was the switch in land use, so the main requirement is clearing the Americas of people to let the land go back to it's natural state, which means capitalism would need to step it up and kill just over a billion people in very specific places, which is unlikely as capitalism focuses on killing poor people.

 

It looks like we will need to wait for a really bad war or plague. 

 

 

 

EDIT: Thanos is not right! killing 50% of all life would wreck every ecosystem ever in the short term, and accomplish nothing in the long term. Also makes no sense because the Universe is absurdly empty of life, we have so much space to fill up before we hit any kind of resource limit, and that's assuming there are aliens other somewhere taking up their own space, although there's no evidence for this IRL. 

 

unless there is more nuance to his plan than I got from that movie?


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#8
Jakob

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@Alislaws: Yes, there are very few communist states, and the Earth is indeed warming.

 

Note also that in the period from 1950 to 1970, the global temperature was on average colder than before or after. I say this is because Communism was at its strongest, killings tens of millions of people and destroying industry in dozens of countries. Fortunately in the next few decades, this pattern will break as capitalists introduce geoengineering and build a Hall Weather Machine so the weather can be controlled by democracy and the free market at a very precise level.


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#9
caltrek

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^^^Controlling the weather by democracy sounds highly socialistic to me.


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The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#10
Erowind

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@Jakob

What in God's name tells you that capitalists will invest money in megastructures like a Hall Weather Machine when they don't bother to upkeep current infrastructure like the failing power lines, sewage system and roadways which were originally funded by state grant to begin with?

And before you say big government and, "that's not real capitalism" I remind you that Flint Michigan's current water problems are a consequence of privatization and disaster capitalism. Moreover, this is not a microcosm, it is the norm.

https://c4ss.org/content/42936

#11
Erowind

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^^^Controlling the weather by democracy sounds highly socialistic to me.

To the right-wing libertarian mind "democracy" and "freedom" mean freedom of contract not expansion of choice and wellbeing. To Jakob freedom is genuinely status qou. The right wing has been co-opting these words for too long.

http://humaniteratio...e-of-anarchism/

An article directly relates that folks might find interesting. It gives historical context to the manipulation of language at play here.

#12
Yuli Ban

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'American Dying' cooled Earth's climate

 

Colonisation of the Americas at the end of the 15th Century killed so many people, it disturbed Earth's climate.
 
That's the conclusion of scientists from University College London, UK.
 
The team says the disruption that followed European settlement led to a huge swathe of abandoned agricultural land being reclaimed by fast-growing trees and other vegetation.
 
This pulled down enough carbon dioxide (CO₂) from the atmosphere to eventually chill the planet.
 
It's a cooling period often referred to in the history books as the "Little Ice Age" - a time when winters in Europe would see the Thames in London regularly freeze over.
 
 
 
_105406069_wais_icecore.jpg

 

As we all know, this wasn't even the only mass dying going on at the time. Hell, it wasn't even the biggest source of deaths at the time. You had this, the Black Death, and the Mongol conquests all going on at roughly the same time. The genocide of Native Americans likely led to the deaths of 100 million, but that was over the course of several hundred years.

But in retrospect, there really is no doubt that 1300-1500 was not a good time for civilization. Truly the post-medieval equivalent of a nuclear war. There's a good reason why we call it the Crisis of the Late Middle Ages.


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And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#13
Jakob

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@Jakob

What in God's name tells you that capitalists will invest money in megastructures like a Hall Weather Machine when they don't bother to upkeep current infrastructure like the failing power lines, sewage system and roadways which were originally funded by state grant to begin with?

And before you say big government and, "that's not real capitalism" I remind you that Flint Michigan's current water problems are a consequence of privatization and disaster capitalism. Moreover, this is not a microcosm, it is the norm.

https://c4ss.org/content/42936

Oh but you can make lots and lots of money by controlling the weather!

 

Farmers will pay you to make it rain on their fields (and to make it never rain on their competitor's fields). Event organizers will pay you to ensure good weather during their parades and festivals and the like. People in equatorial regions can crowdfund efforts to cool down their region, and vice versa for people in polar climates. You might even get military contracts to cause droughts and floods in places like North Korea!

 

Hmm...does anyone detect a sci-fi novel premise here?



#14
Yuli Ban

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^ Yeah, a dystopian novel where megacorporations control the Earth's climate and effectively have total unrestrained control over the planet.


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And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#15
Jakob

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^ Yeah, a dystopian novel where megacorporations control the Earth's climate and effectively have total unrestrained control over the planet.

I think it's better if rational actors control the weather than if looters and moochers from Big Government control it or it's left up to random chance. The novel might even be closer to utopian.


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#16
joe00uk

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I love how this is just such obvious trolling, but no one else can tell. Good work, Jakob!


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#17
rennerpetey

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or just stop having kids and go vegan? no need in killing off people..

 

though thanos is right

 

I really hate to see this stance in liberals.  It's not that you're not well meaning, but we need to fight the corporations that produce most of the pollution and waste.  Change on the individual level is not enough to reverse climate change.


John Lennon dares you to make sense of this

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#18
Jakob

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I love how this is just such obvious trolling, but no one else can tell. Good work, Jakob!

Thanks, and the same to you Joe! You've been doing this almost as long as I have :)


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#19
caltrek

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The genocide of Native Americans likely led to the deaths of 100 million, but that was over the course of several hundred years.

 

 

It should be noted that a majority of deaths during the period in question were from introduced disease and not intentional genocide.  Death due to hostilities did play a role, but this should be kept in perspective.


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The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#20
Outlook

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 Everyone responding to Jakob seriously is tonally inept, and anybody who is proud of being a troll (epic xP) in 2019 is socially inept.


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