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"What if, hear me out, the great man myth surrounding Elon Musk is wrong?"


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#1
starspawn0

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https://mobile.twitt...868864401764354

What if, hear me out, the great man myth surrounding Elon Musk is wrong? What if he’s mostly a self-obsessed bully for whom market victory justifies all manner of reckless & dishonest attacks on journalists, whistleblowers, cave rescuers & critics?


https://www.bloomber...er-martin-tripp

When Elon Musk Tried to Destroy a Tesla Whistleblower

It started with a Twitter meltdown and ended with a fake mass shooter. A former security manager says the company also spied and spread misinformation.


I guess it doesn't matter what Musk does, right? He's building THE FUTURE!

#2
starspawn0

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I liked this part:

“They had the ability to do things I didn’t even know existed,” he says. “It scared the shit out of me.”


That was from Gouthro, the ex-military security manager at the Gigafactory.

#3
Erowind

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No one will remember Musk in 100 years. Great people aren't determined in the present if they even exist at all.

Current status: slaving away for the math gods of Pythagoras VII.


#4
tomasth

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If extensive life extention is possible in his life time , he will not just be remembered , but alive and well in 100 years.

#5
Alislaws

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TLDR: Elon musk is a dick. Pretty much all the billionaires in the world are dicks. Elon musk Is a dick who is at least trying to solve some big problems.

This sort of "OMG! Elon Musk is a Dick!" stuff would make sense if Tesla/SpaceX etc. were all non-profit charities. They're not, and expecting their billionaire CEO to be a really nice guy is dumb. 

 

-----

 

Hasn't it been established at this point that the whole "great man" theory of history is bollocks? 

 

Also (aside from Jakob) i dont think many sensible people believe Elon musk is a saint. Of course I don't spend time discussing him off this forum, I'm sure there are probably some fanatical fanboys, but those people won't be supporting him based on any purely rational analysis of his conduct, and wont be persuaded by stories of hiss bad character.

 

He's an American Tech billionaire. The reason people like him more than most Tech billionaires is that he has decided to focus his time and effort into:

 

A) Electric cars

B) Solar power

C) Space travel

*

 

And has justified doing this in a way that makes sense to most people. Of course he is making himself a lot of money, and of course he is treating his lower level employees as badly(cheaply) as he can get away with. Yes he will use his wealth and power to further his own interests, and make things difficult for people who annoy him. he is a Billionaire American Tech CEO.

 

As contrasted with say: Steve Jobs, who everyone loves/loved and who was an American tech billionaire who made his money building over priced (but very pretty) computers, and later over priced, but very pretty MP3 players and later overpriced smart phones (all smartphones are just rounded rectangles so I don't think iphones are especially pretty), and a lot of apple phones are of course manufactured by people who are being treated like shit in china (at least these days, maybe not when Steve was in charge, but presumably some similar stuff went on). 

 

Or say Jeff Bezos, (who has also looked into rockets, but has waay more money, and has had less success, so people are not impressed) is an American tech billionaire who has decided to make his money by taking over the global retail sector, which will incidentally put millions out of work and who also treats his employees like shit. He probably has his fans, and is the richest man in the whole world. 

 

Or Mark Zuckerburg, who has a company that makes billions, will continue to make billions, but still cant resist trying to squeeze a few extra drops of political advertising $$$, and if that means democracy gets fucked, well that's not his problem. 

 

 

*D) Solving LA's traffic problems

​E) Doing some preliminary work on better trains

F) Selling Flamethrowers



#6
Jakob

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No one will remember Musk in 100 years. Great people aren't determined in the present if they even exist at all.

The Lord ELON was sent by the All-Creator to save humanity and uplift us to the stars, and will be remembered in 100,000 years. He is thus by far the most influential person who has ever existed, or will ever exist.


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#7
Ghostreaper

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No one will remember Musk in 100 years. Great people aren't determined in the present if they even exist at all.

The Lord ELON was sent by the All-Creator to save humanity and uplift us to the stars, and will be remembered in 100,000 years. He is thus by far the most influential person who has ever existed, or will ever exist.

 

 

Playing along, though I'm pretty sure that honor goes to the several unassuming humans throughout history who happened to do interesting things which were then over-exaggerated for thousands of years resulting in social followings numbering in the billions. 


“If the genius of invention were to reveal to-morrow the secret of immortality, of eternal beauty and youth, for which all humanity is aching, the same inexorable agents which prevent a mass from changing suddenly its velocity would likewise resist the force of the new knowledge until time gradually modifies human thought.” 

 

                                                                 Nikola Tesla - New York World, May 19th 1907 


#8
starspawn0

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I think it was Nietzsche who elucidated Christian moral values as being a "slave morality", that emphasized things like:

* Don't lie, cheat or steal.

* Love your neighbor.

* Be charitable and have pity.

https://en.wikipedia...–slave_morality
 

Biblical principles of humility, charity, and pity are the result of universalizing the plight of the slave onto all humankind, and thus enslaving the masters as well.



Maybe the Christian Bible needs to be defenestrated, and replaced with:

* It's ok to lie a lot, if it serves a higher purpose.

* If your neighbor is weak (and not very intelligent), and not actually making a difference in the world, you are permitted to be unkind towards him. They will share in your good works, anyways, and that's kindness enough; they should be thanking you.

* Being charitable just means you are rewarding people for their inferiority.


What do you think? That's the "master morality" -- the morality of many "movers and shakers". (Though, they have to keep concealed their true morality, in case the plebs catch on.)

Or maybe we could take something like a classic Utilitarian approach to morality, where

* Minor lies count as "minus 1".

* Major lies count as "minus 2".

* A minor good deed counts "plus 1".

* A major good deed counts as "plus 5".

So, if you tell 2 minor lies, 1 major lie, and do 1 major good deed, the moral value is:

(-1) + (-1) + (-2) + (+5) = +1, which is a "minor good".

Maybe a rape or a murder is a "minus 1,000" -- but, hold on, if a "supremely good" deed counts as "plus 20", say, then if you do 51 "supremely good" deeds, when we run the numbers, we find:

moral value = (-1,000) + 51 x (20) = +20,

which counts as "good", too.

I think that's probably how people think about Musk -- they take a Utilitarian approach, and add up the good and bad, and reach a positive moral score; so, he is considered "good".



Now, we have clinical labels like "psychopath" or "sociopath", but maybe that's just more of the cultural programming?

And, technically, "psychopath" is only considered a "pathology" if it causes harm to self or other. Look at Trump. He clearly exhibits the classic characteristics of a psychopath (or maybe some extreme form of narcissist), yet 40% of the population love him -- so it would not be considered a "pathology". This is part of the reason many psychologists don't want to weigh in on declaring Trump a psychopath; the other main reason is that they haven't had a chance to make an up-close, clinical assessment.

#9
Yuli Ban

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The Gigafactory, one of the world’s largest buildings by floor area, had been filled with workers so quickly that it was almost impossible to control. Not long after Gouthro started in January 2018, he discovered that many employees, some of whom were living out of their car in the corners of the industrial park, were using cocaine and meth in the bathrooms. Others were having sex in parts of the factory that were still under construction. Gouthro says the scanners guards used to check badges were unreliable, so they’d wave in anyone with a piece of paper that looked legitimate. Local scrap yards called him to report thieves were trying to sell obscure electric vehicle parts.

Oh you precious East African Plains Apes, you never fail me.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#10
Outlook

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No one will remember Musk in 100 years. Great people aren't determined in the present if they even exist at all.

 

People still remember Ford and Edison. 

 

EDIT: Even Steve Jobs is still referenced relatively widely. The point is Musky penetrated pop culture, and he'll probably remain famous.


Outlook's secret song of the ~week: https://youtu.be/6S20mJvr4vs


#11
tomasth

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All the rich people , whether you like them or not ; with life extension could live indefinitely. Unlike historical figures that at least they died like any unknown persons.

 

As for morality , the group morality change with the cultural changes thru time (and persons get rewritten as good bad with the changes). morality need a thread like biographical personal identity to be the same.

 

Yuli Ban , that read was colorful/provocative/disturbing like one of those YouTube videos about random-topic/politics/other you-tubers.



#12
Erowind

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No one will remember Musk in 100 years. Great people aren't determined in the present if they even exist at all.

 
People still remember Ford and Edison. 
 
EDIT: Even Steve Jobs is still referenced relatively widely. The point is Musky penetrated pop culture, and he'll probably remain famous.

This assumes the world is still capitalistic in 100 years which I highly doubt because neither capitalism nor feudalism can combat ecocide or climate change. I'd imagine few here besides myself and a few others interested in leftism know who Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman and Rosa Luxembourg are. If most people on this forum do that's because they're more educated than the average person. But the general populace certainly doesn't remember them. We only remember industrialists because the dominant ideology idolizes them. If the dominant ideology were different no one would care. Steve Jobs is another one no will care about. For that matter folks won't really care about apple products as a whole outside of a few historical footnotes.

Who might actually be remembered in 100 years? Trump sadly, the man represents a shift in American culture and historians are going to have a field day with this entire period from the great recession onwards.

Then again I'm an optimist and I could be wrong. I expect humanity to be enlightened enough not to generally not grovel and form cults of personalities in 100 years time.

Current status: slaving away for the math gods of Pythagoras VII.


#13
Raklian

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No one will remember Musk in 100 years. Great people aren't determined in the present if they even exist at all.

 

They might if we call the first Martian city Elon City. :D


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What are you without the sum of your parts?

#14
Erowind

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No one will remember Musk in 100 years. Great people aren't determined in the present if they even exist at all.


They might if we call the first Martian city Elon City. :D
Dear God. There's a name change referendum in the making if I've ever seen one xD

As an addition to my earlier post too. It remains to be seen if musk warrants the same attention as historical figures like Andrew Carnegie. Musk's enterprises leave a lot to be desired. Jeff Bezos on the other hand has continually played his hand very well.
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Current status: slaving away for the math gods of Pythagoras VII.


#15
Sciencerocks

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Nearly every capitain of industry has a dark side. We'd be living in mud huts today if it weren't for men like Musk so we should accept the great things they bring to our world and the down sides at the same time.

 

Seeing that nasa is dead Musk is pretty much everything when it comes to space.



#16
Outlook

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We'd be living in mud huts today if it weren't for men like Musk 

 

I'm just going to be collecting these quotes, this is hilarious. 


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Outlook's secret song of the ~week: https://youtu.be/6S20mJvr4vs


#17
PhoenixRu

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Everything is simple: Musk is another narcissist person managed to create the little hilarious cult of personality. Not inventor, nor even the good businessman, just the master of PR and self-promotinon. His end will be sad and pathetic...


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#18
Sciencerocks

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Everything is simple: Musk is another narcissist person managed to create the little hilarious cult of personality. Not invenor, nor even the good businessman, just the master of PR and self-promotinon. His end will be sad and pathetic...

 

You kidding? Who else would have built space-x and advanced ground to orbital space travel more in a decade then nasa has done in the past 50? who is advancing automation of cars or the most powerful electric car batteries in the industry blowing away GM and ford.

 

Who comes close to Musk? Why shouldn't he be respected for what he has brought to this world. One could say the same about Edison and most capitains of industry in history but there's no question that they left their mark.


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#19
PhoenixRu

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You kidding?

 

No, not kidding. We'll return to this theme 10 years later, OK?


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#20
Casey

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https://mobile.twitt...868864401764354
 

I guess it doesn't matter what Musk does, right? He's building THE FUTURE!

 

 

As bad as this might sound... yes, that pretty much sums it up for me. I won't defend any of his actions or make excuses for anything about his person, but he's helping with my deep-rooted need to see the world become a better place. Anyone who does that gets an almost unshakable position in my list of favorite people. Elon Musk or Mary Lou Jepsen could secretly be cannibals that routinely eat babies for dinner and I'd be okay with them because of their contributions to things like self-driving cars and neuroscience.






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