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Implanted memories


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11 replies to this topic

#1
funkervogt

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I re-watched Blade Runner, and it made me wonder if it might be possible to implant memories in people in the future. 

 

In the film, Rachael plays a "replicant" who, unlike others of her kind, doesn't realize she's not a normal human. This is because her creators made her with fake memories of a childhood and a past that never happened. She thinks she's in her 20s, but actually emerged as a full-grown adult from a vat only about a year before the movie takes place. 

 

While "replicants" are commonly thought of as being "robots," they're actually genetically engineered humans. This means that, in the film, the technology exists to implant memories into organic human brains. 

 

Could such a thing be possible? What would it require? 

 

I think a technique involving FIVR, perhaps coupled with hypnosis (the technique is notorious for creating false memories) and maybe drugs that alter the person's mental state and suggestibility could do it. 


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#2
kjaggard

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We'll be able to remember it for you, wholesale.


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#3
wjfox

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I think a technique involving FIVR

 

Full-Immersion Virtual Reality, for those who might be wondering. Essentially a form of ultra-quality VR that is indistinguishable from real life.



#4
Jakob

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I think a technique involving FIVR

 

Full-Immersion Virtual Reality, for those who might be wondering. Essentially a form of ultra-quality VR that is indistinguishable from real life.

 

Not necessarily lifelike. Could be highly abstract or otherwise non-realistic. I think it just means that it is full-body and encompasses all senses.


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#5
Alislaws

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How much do we (as in humanity) know about how memories work? 

 

If memories exist basically in the arrangement of connections between neurons in the brain then the only way to implant a memory would be to make the person experience that memory (subjectively, so FIVR Could work). I think this is how it works, but I don't really know, but the fastest way to get the write answer on the internet is to post a wrong answer!

 

So you could maybe "implant" a memory if you broke into their house when they were sleeping and then you drug them into unconsciousness, then put them in FIVR, possibly with some system that alters the way your brain is making connections slightly,  so your new memory feels like an older memory?

 

Then they wake up in their own bed with a new memory stuck in their head somewhere. 

 

Like "eternal sunshine of the spotless mind" only backwards.



#6
funkervogt

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In Blade Runner, the replicants are born as full-grown adults. It might be that, shortly after being born but while still in the lab, the replicants have the memory implant procedure done on them. Their brains could still be plastic and susceptible to suggestion at such an early life phase. 



#7
Raklian

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We have to open our minds to the possibility that in the future we will exchange memories just like what we do with text. Literal memory sharing.


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#8
Zaphod

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So you could maybe "implant" a memory if you broke into their house when they were sleeping and then you drug them into unconsciousness, then put them in FIVR, possibly with some system that alters the way your brain is making connections slightly,  so your new memory feels like an older memory?

 

Then they wake up in their own bed with a new memory stuck in their head somewhere. 

 

Like "eternal sunshine of the spotless mind" only backwards.

 

That sounds more like the premise of Inception, but they plant an idea rather than a memory.


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#9
zEVerzan

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We have to open our minds to the possibility that in the future we will exchange memories just like what we do with text. Literal memory sharing.

 

Would that diminish the value of having experienced something for yourself?


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#10
Alislaws

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We have to open our minds to the possibility that in the future we will exchange memories just like what we do with text. Literal memory sharing.

 

Would that diminish the value of having experienced something for yourself?

 

I'm always curious about that, subjectively it might be identical, IF it was subjectively identical, then I don't ​really ​see the difference, Except the consequences to the actions you remember performing would not be yours (morally speaking?) which could be weird?

 

Like I would see no difference between a FIVR experience and a real experience if they were subjectively the same. (unless the real world experience impacted a real human, in which case that impact on them is part of the experience which could not be replicated, unless they log into VR and you play multiplayer.

 

The only difference is that doing something in VR is probably not as challenging as the real world, so for that you'd need some realism settings etc. 


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#11
Yuli Ban

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We have to open our minds to the possibility that in the future we will exchange memories just like what we do with text. Literal memory sharing.

 

Would that diminish the value of having experienced something for yourself?

Would you be able to tell the difference?


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#12
Erowind

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We have to open our minds to the possibility that in the future we will exchange memories just like what we do with text. Literal memory sharing.

 

Would that diminish the value of having experienced something for yourself?

 

I'm always curious about that, subjectively it might be identical, IF it was subjectively identical, then I don't ​really ​see the difference, Except the consequences to the actions you remember performing would not be yours (morally speaking?) which could be weird?

 

Like I would see no difference between a FIVR experience and a real experience if they were subjectively the same. (unless the real world experience impacted a real human, in which case that impact on them is part of the experience which could not be replicated, unless they log into VR and you play multiplayer.

 

The only difference is that doing something in VR is probably not as challenging as the real world, so for that you'd need some realism settings etc. 

 

 

To add to this conversation. 

 

Yes. The value would be diminished, at least at first. When (if) FIVR ever becomes a reality things done if FIVR won't have the same effect on the world as things done outside of FIVR. What I mean by this is that hitting a home run irl and breaking the neighbor's window results in real property damage and all the effects of that broken window. In FIVR this wouldn't be the case, the window could just be refreshed back to its old model and no real neighbor is going to be pissed. Until a large minority of the species spends significant amounts of time in persistent FIVR worlds this would continue to be the case. Subjectivity is effected by environmental objectivity, without a persistent world on scale with non FIVR society subjective experience in some cases will not have as much value because it will not stimulate as much value. Something like solo painting of most subject matter would be completely authentic from the very start though. Other interactions require other real people and their environmental effects in order to be authentic. Think of it this way. If 1/10,000th of the current population lived in an environment where much of the environment wasn't persistent in the same/similar way to how our current world is--how authentic would some of their experience be compared to ours? 

 

In the long run though none of this will matter. With most of society eventually migrating to virtual spaces, and those spaces sending orders to automatons in meatspace, all virtual action will become as authentic as all physical action. Eventually the virtual vs physical dichotomy will dissolve altogether.


Current status: slaving away for the math gods of Pythagoras VII.





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