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Iran Crisis Thread

Iran Persian Gulf Trump war

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#81
caltrek

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I am frankly surprised that more people aren’t paying attention that people in Iran of all places are among those celebrating his death.

https://www.redstate...lights-them-up/

What could this spell for the country internally?

 

Weird how the far left and the far right sometimes line up with each other. Ari Fleischer was press secretary for President George W. Bush when the Bush-Cheney administration deployed a long stretch of false statements and lies to pave the way to the March 2003 invasion of Iraq.  He recently went on Fox News and proclaimed:

 

 

I think it is entirely possible that this is going to be a catalyst inside Iran where the people celebrate this killing of Soleimani

 

https://twitter.com/...930634315948033


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#82
caltrek

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I should add that a lot of reporters in the U.S. on places like MSNBC have been careful to indicate that while Soleimani was a darling of Iranian elites, he may not have been all that popular with the underlying population of Iran.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#83
Yuli Ban

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Like, say, Vice President Pence. If he were killed while in London, you don't think a sizable proportion of people wouldn't celebrate his death?

Does that also mean there wouldn't be reprisals?


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#84
caltrek

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An eye for an eye, making the whole world blind.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#85
caltrek

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One possible avenue of escalation by Iran:

 

Here’s What a Cyber Attack by Iran Might Look Like

 

https://www.motherjo...ight-look-like/

 

Introduction:

 

(Mother Jones) The government of Iran vowed “forceful revenge” against the United States after Thursday’s killing of Major Gen. Qassem Soleimani, Iran’s top security and intelligence commander. It’s unclear what form that revenge might take, but cyber security experts are warning that Iran might use its increasingly capable army of hackers to attack US government and private sector targets. Such an operation could cause substantial damage without the use of more traditional military techniques.

 

“Soleimani was an extremely significant figure, and Iran will likely use any assets at its disposal to retaliate in a way that won’t spark an all out war,” Jake Williams, a former NSA hacker currently with Rendition Infosec, a company he founded after leaving government work, told Mother Jones. “I would expect to see destructive cyber attacks in at least a few networks where Iranian government hackers already have a presence.”

 

 


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#86
caltrek

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I'd say that on the bright side if Trump starts a war he won't be reelected...

 

I am not sure Trump sees it that way:

 

Trump Turns to Evangelicals After US Strike on Iranian Commander

 

 

MIAMI (Courthouse News) – Amid increased tensions with Iran, President Trump sought to shore up support among evangelical voters at a massive Miami church Friday night, led by a self-described apostle who claims his ministry has brought dead babies back to life through a portal to God.

 

The rally at the King Jesus International Ministry Church came the night after a Trump-ordered air strike killed Iranian Major General Qasem Soleimani and Iraqi commander Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis near a Baghdad airport.

 

….Trump discussed the Iran crisis briefly at the church rally before turning back to themes of religious freedom. The president told a sprawling crowd that Democrats are conspiring to “shut out God from the public square so they can impose their anti-religious and socialist agenda.”

 

… “He’s the first president in a long time who actually has testicles,” the South Florida resident said. “Democrats don’t like him, so whatever he does, no matter if it’s good or bad, they will speak against him.”

 

…The Pew Research Center’s exit polling data from 2016 suggested that roughly 8 in 10 white voters who identified as evangelical or born-again Christian voted for Trump.

 

The mentality of the Crusades is still with us.  Trump may be gambling that he can use that mentality in his old "us versus them" game.  You are either "with us" or with "them" the evil outsiders who are against motherhood, apple pie, and Christianity.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#87
caltrek

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Erowind: but barring Bernie, another liberal like Trump is more of the same anyways so meh. Hillary would have warred with Iran too as would Obama, Bush, Clinton and all the rest until at least Kennedy and possibly farther. It really shows how the Empire of America is in charge of the executive branch not the other way around. 

 

Well, on the one hand you have a lot of evangelical fanatics with their "Christianity" first, last and always mentality (conveniently ignoring the core pacifist message of Christ) while on the other you have nationalistic "liberals" bound and determined to make the world safe for capitalism - especially that form of capitalism that favors the "national interests" of the U.S. 

 

Still, consider the alternatives...the empire of Putin? 

 

...the unified empire of a yet to be named Caliph?

 

Chinese hegemony?

 

A democratic socialist like Bernie might be able to offer a truly constructive alternative.  Still, a lot of "moderates" are truly terrified by that possibility.  If Bernie did actually manage to win, he would have to operate in an extremely hostile environment.  One with significant challenges both at home and abroad. 


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#88
Jessica

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I honestly don't think iran is dumb enough to get into a full blown war with the united states. They realize that they'd get hurt bad and probably end up like Saddamn or the taliban ended up and that probably isn't acceptable to the iranian government. Sure, they'll screw around a little but they won't cross the line.



#89
Outlook

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Trump starts a war and the guy's losing the election, there's no doubt about that.

 

https://www.huffingt...8fca?ri18n=true


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#90
10 year march

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Trump to bomb 52 cultural targets in Iran if Iran retaliates

https://out.reddit.c...id=418179769815

#91
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RLyoyaM.jpg



#92
Erowind

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Erowind: but barring Bernie, another liberal like Trump is more of the same anyways so meh. Hillary would have warred with Iran too as would Obama, Bush, Clinton and all the rest until at least Kennedy and possibly farther. It really shows how the Empire of America is in charge of the executive branch not the other way around. 

 

.

 

Posted in the containment thread soas not to derail here 

 

https://www.futureti...t-thread/page-3



#93
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Iranian hackers hacked a US government agency website I think it's possible but unlikely trump will bomb those 52 cultural sites saying this hack was a attack on a government asset

https://www.google.c...to-be-from-iran

#94
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Things are really heating up Iran military adviser says they plan on attacking US military sites when I go to bed a few hours from now then wake up I actually wouldn't be surprised if war has begun

https://www.google.c...intl/index.html

#95
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Trump Decided to Kill Iran General Soleimani in Part to Appear Stronger Than Obama Was on Benghazi: Report

1/4/20

President Donald Trump's decision to kill top Iranian General Qassem Soleimani was partly motivated by previous negative coverage over a called-off airstrike against Iran and a desire to be seen as a stronger president than Barack Obama, according to reported accounts by officials familiar with the planning discussions.

Trump also feared that the U.S. may be looking weak after failing to respond to a series of other attacks and provocations by Iran, such as the shooting down an unmanned U.S. drone which prompted the threat of an airstrike in June, and the alleged mine attacks of four oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman.

https://www.newsweek...zi-iran-1480389



#96
MarcZ

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BREAKING: Iraqi Parliament votes to expel US troops

 

Anti-ISIS coalition also has collapsed. We can only hope that ISIS has been defeated thoroughly enough to prevent a resurgence.

 

https://www.cnn.com/...54277b415b5d03d



#97
Raklian

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I wonder if the US will decide to maintain troops in Iraq regardless, using Iranian influence on Iraqi politics as a pretense.

 

If that happens, it's no different than an occupation.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#98
MarcZ

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And how will they do that exactly? They aren't there as an occupation that ended in 2011 they are only there at the invitation of the Iraqi gov't after the 2014 emergence of ISIS. If the Iraqi Executive agrees with the parliament than the US would be gravely violating international law. The Iraqi government has now filed 2 complaints to the UN to vote to condemn the US's violation of the conditions of the invitation to Iraq.



#99
Raklian

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And how will they do that exactly? They aren't there as an occupation that ended in 2011 they are only there at the invitation of the Iraqi gov't after the 2014 emergence of ISIS. If the Iraqi Executive agrees with the parliament than the US would be gravely violating international law. The Iraqi government has now filed 2 complaints to the UN to vote to condemn the US's violation of the conditions of the invitation to Iraq.

 

If Iran attacks US assets across the Middle East using military means, US will override Iraqi's wishes in the name of national security.  Let's be frank, US doesn't consider Iraqi as an ally more than a platform from which to protect American interests in the region. There is a chance US might stage a coup and replace the government with one that's only friendly to the West. We know the US never listens to UN. Look what happened during the moments leading up to the Iraqi war when UN warned the US that the evidence it had mass weapons of destruction was not substantiated and the US utterly ignored it. We may see a repeat of that playbook.

 

It probably depends on how Iran will carry out its revenge. If it's limited in scope, all of this probably won't happen. For all of his bravado, Trump has shown restraint in being suckered into a prolonged conflict, so it'll take a sizable attack from Iran for Trump to reconsider if it's going to affect his chances at reelection. I think if the attack is relatively minor to what Iran could inflict, Trump may use this as a rally call to bring all US troops back home and leave Middle East forever which is what he promised his supporters in the first place.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#100
wjfox

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Amir
@AmirAminiMD

This is the largest crowd I’ve ever witnessed in my life. I’ve never seen Iranians so unified, ever.

This is Suleimani’s funeral in Ahvaz, Iran.

Trump has no idea what he has done.

https://twitter.com/...828930458804224







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