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freezing yourself?


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#41
Alric

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That isn't true at all. People want to live forever because life is enjoyable and fun. Why cut it short? Also you say we are selfish for wanting to live forever but I am pretty sure you are selfish as well. Think of all the people dying around the world. Why don't you give all your money away to feed and cloth the poor? You would actually save a ton of lives. The fact is you don't, and since you are selfish you have no right to judge anyone else. Me, I think people should be able to do anything they want. If they want to live forever, then they should try and live forever. If the choice is between buying a new tv every 5 years, or saving up that money and getting cryonics instead, then it is probably a wise investment and it isn't hurting anyone else. It isn't an obsession at all. Buying life insurance isn't an obsession, it is just a wise investment in a safety net to help protect the ones you love. If you use it for cryonics instead, then it is simply an investment to protect yourself. It is practical, and reasonable. Also I don't know why you are bringing religion into this, what does that have to do with anything? You have such a negative view of the world. Just because life is pointless, doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy it. Heck, what is there to do besides be happy and enjoy life? It seems like you are missing out a lot. I can also find some links but you need to define what is a reasonable amount of time. Like I said, most of the stuff is for short time periods.

#42
Raklian

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I didn't know there were many. I haven't looked as I'm 16 and not planning on dying, or risking it while the technology is in its infancy.


Although you are only 16, you can die any time. Accidents can happen, you know.

It doesn't hurt to get an insurance policy that will pay for the cost of cryonic preservation.


Was that a joke? 16 year old's should get cryonic insurance in case of death? You do realise it doesn't matter anyway.. Once you're dead you don't suddenly miss not being alive in the future. I could set up a company who claims to freeze people when they die, take all their money and then just burn all the bodies. You're paying for peace of mind while you're alive that death won't be the end, once you're dead you no longer care about anything. It's the same as religion comforting dying people so they feel better. Plus with our current technology a burnt body probably has just as much chance being reanimated as one frozen with our pathetic current cryo technology.


You are making a lot of assumptions there, buddy. Any proof that you have to justify your claims?


When someone successfully freezes and unfreezes something bigger than a few cells we'll talk. Plus you're the one making the massive assumption that mdoern day cryogenics works, I'm just going by what science has shown so far.


Really? Do me a favor and look at my posts above to see if I made any claims that cryogenics works. For some reason, your brain came up with the idea that I did. Maybe you thought that by suggesting one of us to buy an insurance policy to be cryogenically frozen it is inferred that I believe cryogenics perservation works. That is a fallacy in your thinking.

Now, who is the one making that massive assumption? Jeez.

Link me to the most complex thing you can find that's been successfully frozen for a reasonable time then unfrozen and is fully functional. I'm curious and it's a lot of effort to search for it, but i'm pretty sure it's still very small and crap.

Also, this obsession with living forever and seeing the future is just so selfish. Can't you just have children and then die like everyone else does? Think of the wellbeing of the species as a whole instead of your own selfish needs. Accept the fact that the future doesn't want to see you. You think you need it much more than it needs you. Embrace the peaceful, painless state of death and be satisfied with the present. If you convince yourself now that you don't belong in this time and will enjoy the future more, that viewpoint won't change when you arrive in the future. You'll just keep thinking you need to go further and further into the future and will never find happiness. Everything you need is here right now. The future will happen and you will see some of it, but the bits you don't see won't matter. Your desperate fear of death is no better than the religious fanatics. Your interest in cryogenics and eternal life is nothing but a substitute for heaven to help you to deal with your pointless existence.


Fortunately, that is only your opinion. If you don't want to be cryogenically preserved, then that's your choice. We are not trying to coze you to changing your mind but I have to ask you this - what are you trying to do here? So far the only thing you've managed to do is annoy me, if not a few others here.
What are you without the sum of your parts?

#43
SG-1

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Shimmy does have a good point though, that the future doesn't need you. Overpopulation will be a problem and it needs to be met. The colonization of other planets, urbanizing rural areas such as mountains or even using the oceans. It is possible to accommodate a whole lot more people on this planet, but that is only possible once we master technologies that allow us to use them. It may turn out that immortality is not possible within our lifetimes or that cryogenics won't work. It is not selfishness anymore than eating is. Survival, and like you said, the dead don't care. So if me or you die before it happens - so be it. Religion is a subject best kept off of the internet - or at least sites like this. I consider myself to be a Christian, but I'm struggling to balance the actual stuff in the Bible and the bull shit other people say about it. Not to mention all the other religions out there.

Hey.  Stop reading.  The post is over.


#44
Shimmy

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Just because life is pointless, doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy it. Heck, what is there to do besides be happy and enjoy life? It seems like you are missing out a lot.

At what point did I say you shouldn't enjoy life? That was my whole point. I love life, I love life now though, I'm not just trying to pass the time waiting for the future

For some reason, your brain came up with the idea that I did. Maybe you thought that by suggesting one of us to buy an insurance policy to be cryogenically frozen it is inferred that I believe cryogenics perservation works. That is a fallacy in your thinking.

I wasn't talking to you.....

Religion is a subject best kept off of the internet - or at least sites like this. I consider myself to be a Christian, but I'm struggling to balance the actual stuff in the Bible and the bull shit other people say about it. Not to mention all the other religions out there.

But it's interesting. Do you believe heaven exists? If you did why would you want to be cryogenically frozen when you have a much better alternative?

#45
Alric

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If you buy cryonics you are not waiting for the future, or trying to pass time. You sign up, and then you forget about it and live your life like usual. It isn't like cryonics is a huge commitment that will keep you busy all the time. It is like an insurance policy. You don't spend time stressing out about your insurance for your car, or worry about crashing all the time do you?

#46
Raklian

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For some reason, your brain came up with the idea that I did. Maybe you thought that by suggesting one of us to buy an insurance policy to be cryogenically frozen it is inferred that I believe cryogenics perservation works. That is a fallacy in your thinking.


I wasn't talking to you.....


Nice try. Your comment was directly under mine, so who were you answering to? I'm willing to drop this if we just leave this as it is and move on.
What are you without the sum of your parts?

#47
Raklian

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Shimmy does have a good point though, that the future doesn't need you. Overpopulation will be a problem and it needs to be met. The colonization of other planets, urbanizing rural areas such as mountains or even using the oceans. It is possible to accommodate a whole lot more people on this planet, but that is only possible once we master technologies that allow us to use them.

It may turn out that immortality is not possible within our lifetimes or that cryogenics won't work. It is not selfishness anymore than eating is. Survival, and like you said, the dead don't care. So if me or you die before it happens - so be it.

Religion is a subject best kept off of the internet - or at least sites like this. I consider myself to be a Christian, but I'm struggling to balance the actual stuff in the Bible and the bull shit other people say about it. Not to mention all the other religions out there.


My question to you is - if the being successfully cryogenically preserved becomes possible, will you take it?

See, it all comes down to choice. I'd rather think I have the choice to decide to take it or not rather than being pinned down by the thought that the "future may or may not need me."

As for the overpopulation problem, we think it is a problem due to the sacrity of food and natural resources necessary to sustain it. Of course, it is no longer a problem when food production becomes abundant.

We are making the assumption that the current methods of food production and natural resource extraction will be pretty much the same in the future. That is, what Ray Kurzweil calls, linear thinking. Someone not too long ago thought going faster than 30-40 mph will suffocate us air-breathers. Point is, there is so much we can't predict, let alone even guess what the future holds. We think we're smart, but I'm pretty sure future citizens would say otherwise. To them, we are living in the dark ages, for god's sake!

I'd rather gamble with the chance that I'll be revived at some point in the future by a technological means that has a better chance of being plausible than having the faith that there is a afterlife, an idea that is based on a book written by men at a time we consider to be the dark ages!
What are you without the sum of your parts?

#48
SG-1

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Yeah I would take the cryogenics - I don't think the world will end anytime soon.
I take the Bible for its own weight, no one can tell me what is in there. If you do research (atheists may find this interesting too) the word for hell is not used in the way people use it today. I don't believe in Hell. I also don't believe in Heaven. Nowhere, ever does the Bible say you go to Heaven or Hell. You will get resurrected when he comes back, and its not going to be a random rapture prophecies have to be fulfilled first.

Also the Bible doesn't say Man couldn't have been evolved - the first sentence in Genesis is a mistranslation, the Earth became void and without form. It doesn't even make sense for God to have made the Universe and oops - Earth sucked so he took 7 days off to rebuild it.

Anyway that's my view, like you I also don't want to take chances with there actually being no God so I would definitely freeze myself if I had the chance when I was older.

Hey.  Stop reading.  The post is over.


#49
Alric

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The future isn't a person and has no feelings or wants. The idea that the future wants or doesn't want anything is silly. Only people can want things, and if you want to live into the future, then that is all that matters.

#50
Raklian

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Yeah I would take the cryogenics - I don't think the world will end anytime soon.
I take the Bible for its own weight, no one can tell me what is in there. If you do research (atheists may find this interesting too) the word for hell is not used in the way people use it today. I don't believe in Hell. I also don't believe in Heaven. Nowhere, ever does the Bible say you go to Heaven or Hell. You will get resurrected when he comes back, and its not going to be a random rapture prophecies have to be fulfilled first.

Also the Bible doesn't say Man couldn't have been evolved - the first sentence in Genesis is a mistranslation, the Earth became void and without form. It doesn't even make sense for God to have made the Universe and oops - Earth sucked so he took 7 days off to rebuild it.

Anyway that's my view, like you I also don't want to take chances with there actually being no God so I would definitely freeze myself if I had the chance when I was older.


Not to be harsh on you, but do you feel that sometimes you take the Bible too literally? Just curious as I am not sure if you do.

Let's say few thousands years from now on and somehow our civilization collapsed into something similar to what we experienced in the last dark ages, will someone who found the latest edition of the Lord of the Rings (or any fantasy book for that matter) do the same as we did with the Bible? Something to think about.

Edited by Raklian, 06 June 2012 - 01:20 AM.

What are you without the sum of your parts?

#51
SG-1

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The problem with the Bible is it has been mistranslated so many times. There are many misconceptions about it. For instance, when Jesus was crucified most people think he did away with all the holy days and laws in Leviticus about Kosher foods.

It clearly says that he died for our sins, so we wouldn't have to stone people or sacrifice animals. It never did away with the other stuff.

Yes, it would be interesting if the LoR was thought to be holy. That is unlikely since it would mean that all the people with knowledge about the Bible and LoR would die or not share it.
Religion is a choice, if someone doesn't believe it - they aren't going to Hell. It says people will be taught when he comes back in resurrects people.
That is why I don't impose it on anyone and ultimately it doesn't mean anything since when we die - no one knows what happens for sure.

Hey.  Stop reading.  The post is over.





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