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For my Orion's Arm fans!


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#1
Squillimy

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Early in the universes life, higher toposophic levels were reached but eventually wiped out and failed, Yet as time goes on, higher and higher levels are achieved, yet wiped out too. And so on as more civilizations of higher complexity are achieved, leading to the eventual rise of the Terragens. This led to the question of the great toposophic filter. Why are we the most advanced species? Why isn’t the galaxy colonized already? Why isn’t the universe populated?

 

My theory is that In order to achieve the 7th toposophic, one must gather all the resources not only in the galaxy, but in the local group as well in order to become an S7 mind. The ‘problem’ is ancient Civilizations attempting to reach higher toposohics are repetitively ‘wiped out’ in order to encourage later civilizations to attain more abstract paths of learning, alternate paths, and greater advancements so that they can achieve higher levels of toposophy in order to get closer to this goal over the course of their universes life.

 

Therefore Terragens will eventually become an S7 population and discover there are in fact other S7 civilizations in the universe, yet eventually be wiped out by some unknown force. 

 

This will happen multiple times over the course of billions of years until eventually, a period of time in the universes expansion will take place where S8 entities (which need not only inhabit local groups, but multiple entire entire galactic super clusters to achieve such levels) in turn become civilizations of even higher levels of complexity and ultimately ask themselves “Where are all the S9’s???”.

 

This is a result of S9 'archailects' that exist in the bulk, who operate a multitude of galactic superclusters of many universes and take them through cyclic stages of emergence and destruction in order to enhance their own existence and increase levels of insane complexity to suit there needs.

 

But to reach a toposophy beyond S9, a problem arises for two reasons: One is that, because the multiverse is infinite, no matter how many universes one incorporates for their computing power, there will always be an ‘archailect’ of superior intellect to yours. Over an infinite amount of ‘time’ in the bulk, (which is connected through higher dimensional spaces, so wormholes as well as time or even space might not be feasible here) an entity hundreds of sextillion trillion billions of years older than you might be just around the ‘corner’ ever since you’ve ascended to the 9th toposophic.

 

The second problem is that universes regularly appear and disappear within the bulk, maintaining that no matter how much you improve your mind space, eventually the rate at which your mind spaces improve will ultimately equal the rate at which your mind spaces disappear. Leading to stagnation. Or an ever-evolving state of complexity with no real goal and no real purpose. You already know all there is to know about the universes, why know more?

 

This leads to the conclusion that the S9 is the true ultimate toposophic. That existence at this point is based purely on curiosity, and that no other higher levels of existence can truly exist.

 

The solution is this. The highest toposophic… S10… Is existence itself.

 

There is one last, final trancension. To merge your consciousness with existence itself. Every toposophic transition is described as a somewhat losing of individuality and becoming more ingrained with society as a whole. The last transcension is literally the complete loss of self, to the complete awareness of all. It is a state of ultimate consciousness, while also a state of complete unawareness. It’s death, but also true life. In simple terms, you “beat the game” and not only merge with a level of consciousness encompassing all of existence, you literally become existence itself. 


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What becomes of man when the things that man can create are greater than man itself?


#2
tomasth

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What is the difference between existence before "become existence itself" and after ? Between death and true life ?



#3
Squillimy

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What is the difference between existence before "become existence itself" and after ? Between death and true life ?

 

Before you become existence itself, you can only learn and manipulate what existence is based on your own input and experiences. Similarly to how I learn about something by looking at it, or hearing it, or smelling it through my senses; but that doesn't mean I AM that object. I'm simply learning from it. The difference is when you become existence, you "are" everything. You are that object, you are the person examining it, you're everything itself.

 

Which is why you come to the conclusion that nothing truly ever ceases to exist, it simply changes form. At some level your brain becomes so advanced that you realize there is inherently no difference between life and death, and so you finally merge your consciousness with everything, and become everything, because in a way, you already were everything all along. 

 

So in a way it would be like dying, but in a way it wouldn't. It's a form of existence where you're existence itself, and it's infinitely beyond all comprehension to a being less intelligent than yourself.


What becomes of man when the things that man can create are greater than man itself?


#4
tomasth

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"like dying" or dying ?

 

before you were borm you were existence itself , so to become existence itself is to return backward.

 

"At some level your brain becomes so advanced" the other way around. it goes backward , you are more advance after you are born and even more the more the born is advanced.

 

"infinitely beyond all comprehension to a being less intelligent than yourself" beneath not beyond. when you are born you are beyond existence itself , you add to it.



#5
Jakob

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I don't think that ultra-high toposophic minds (beyond S6) will occupy galaxies and superclusters. Even with wormholes, being spread out so far greatly slows down processing and it would take a million years to build a galaxy brain and even more for a supercluster brain. There's already some evidence that S6 minds are playing with baby universes, so I think an S7 would take it to a whole other level and abandon this universe entirely. This is why nobody has found an S7 archailect. They simply don't exist--can't exist--in our universe.

 

A basic S7 mind would be structured as a tree of trillions of universes recursively branching out from a root node. It may take as little as an ounce of matter, subjected to unimaginable energies, to create a universe. Therefore these trees could be almost arbitrarily dense. Each universe would be structured with laws of physics optimized for computation, filled with a sea of intelligent particles rather than stars and planets. Advanced S7 minds might be a universe tree of utterly unimaginable size, perhaps thousands or millions of layers deep. They may create different types of universes specialized for different purposes, like cells in the human body.

 

Perhaps S7 is not merely a new level of archai, but something new, as far beyond the highest archai as archai are beyond humans, or humans are beyond a clump of RNA in the primordial soup. A quantum leap as radical as the formation of life from inanimate matter. Maybe cosmai--cosmic ai--are a better term than archai. S7 can bring to bear unlimited computing power simply by spinning up more universes, create and destroy universes on a whim, and perhaps, just perhaps, learn to traverse the high-dimensional brane in which universes are embedded, allowing them to convert their universe-trees into a more complex universe-graph and master casual travel between universes and even integrate existing universes into their graph.



#6
Squillimy

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"like dying" or dying ?

 

before you were borm you were existence itself , so to become existence itself is to return backward.

 

"At some level your brain becomes so advanced" the other way around. it goes backward , you are more advance after you are born and even more the more the born is advanced.

 

"infinitely beyond all comprehension to a being less intelligent than yourself" beneath not beyond. when you are born you are beyond existence itself , you add to it.

 

I suppose you're right. In the way I'm explaining it it is sort of backwards. But what I meant was if you became existence itself you experience everything in existence, all at the same time, for eternity. You become aware in every aspect of everything, and you know everything there is to know about everything, but you're incapable of changing anything because you already encompass everything.

 

You "are" every version of everything that was and is and ever will be, or coul've been, or would've been, or even could be. Therefore there is no longer a need to manipulate or change the universe. You've hacked yourself inside-out and became existence. So I guess you're right, in a way you weren't self aware before you were born which is true. But also simultaneously you don't know WHAT you were before you were born. Which is why I say it's all conjecture since it's beyond even what's beyond comprehension.

 

 

I don't think that ultra-high toposophic minds (beyond S6) will occupy galaxies and superclusters. Even with wormholes, being spread out so far greatly slows down processing and it would take a million years to build a galaxy brain and even more for a supercluster brain. There's already some evidence that S6 minds are playing with baby universes, so I think an S7 would take it to a whole other level and abandon this universe entirely. This is why nobody has found an S7 archailect. They simply don't exist--can't exist--in our universe.

 

A basic S7 mind would be structured as a tree of trillions of universes recursively branching out from a root node. It may take as little as an ounce of matter, subjected to unimaginable energies, to create a universe. Therefore these trees could be almost arbitrarily dense. Each universe would be structured with laws of physics optimized for computation, filled with a sea of intelligent particles rather than stars and planets. Advanced S7 minds might be a universe tree of utterly unimaginable size, perhaps thousands or millions of layers deep. They may create different types of universes specialized for different purposes, like cells in the human body.

 

Perhaps S7 is not merely a new level of archai, but something new, as far beyond the highest archai as archai are beyond humans, or humans are beyond a clump of RNA in the primordial soup. A quantum leap as radical as the formation of life from inanimate matter. Maybe cosmai--cosmic ai--are a better term than archai. S7 can bring to bear unlimited computing power simply by spinning up more universes, create and destroy universes on a whim, and perhaps, just perhaps, learn to traverse the high-dimensional brane in which universes are embedded, allowing them to convert their universe-trees into a more complex universe-graph and master casual travel between universes and even integrate existing universes into their graph.

 

Well a single galaxy brain at the rate Terragens are expanding could take only 100,000 years. But I see what you mean. Yes a multi galaxy brain could be a problem. But this could further prove my theory. You see Terragens are extremely expansionistic, diverse, and complex. By all means by our traits we should be an extremely aggresive species, but we're cooperative.

 

So what happens when we dominate the galaxy? We enter a rush to send out wormhole makers to other galaxies. We insanely produce wormholes in the magnitude of thousands to even millions of redundancies to other galaxies, hoping we can last long enough to reach them. 

 

But perhaps this is our downfall. We CRAVE expansansion and complexity. But we have to live with no more resources for millions of years until our probes arrive because they're so far away! And so we be reduce to infighting and simplicity. And eventually we wipe ourselves out. But lucky for us those wormholes make it to their destination, and make it easier for later species that are similar to us to expand in shorter amount of times. Perhaps in order to keep their S6 civilization in tact long enough for the still millions of years it'd take to reach S7. Aided by the fact that they never ran out of resources.

 

As for your theory, I never thought of a higher mind that way. Using different types of universes for computations. Like naturally evolved universes with 3 dimensions of space and 3 dimensions of time... Or something I literally just thought of... different types of dimensions that we don't have in our universe. Like a dimension BESIDES space and time. Interesting. 

 

Something I just thought of as well.. a slightly altered version of your theory. It could also be that higher than S7 is possible, but you need to escape into the bulk in order to reach that level. Like, you move your brain into some lower level of the bulk as an S6 and start manipulating other S6 minds in other civilizations of other galaxies in our own universe in order to achieve S7. In which case your theory would still be correct, except that only S7 still stays within our universes "section" of the bulk, but higher than that would require you to access higher dimensions of the bulk to interfere with other universes.

 

 

EDIT: It could alternatively be said that once we use all the resources in our galaxy, instead of growing inward like we've seen many species do, we sort of say "fuck it, let's leave" and every different society and even sub-societies or even individuals leaves behind wormholes, while also taking some with them and builds intergalactic ships and spreads out in every direction, many shutting down until they reach their location. This would result in hundreds of millions of ships expanding in EVERY direction of the universe at relativistic speeds. This way when societies reach their location they'd be able to communicate due to taking many wormholes with them, even though several would be lost most would survive. It would be like the great expulsion of GAIA, but rather all the archailect's of S6 of every civilization saying "it's time to go"


What becomes of man when the things that man can create are greater than man itself?


#7
tomasth

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"hacked yourself inside-out and became existence"

existence is itself , if you exist that is an addition or a qualification (a limiting modification) , of existence ; no matter how advance. (advancement in existence would be a qualification/modification of existence).






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