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Decline of Technology in germany


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#1
Derree

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Hi everybody!

I am new to this forum, and happy to find a community which has the future and future developments as its central topic.

My observations in he last year show, that in my home country, germany, many people are and become more and more technophobe, to the point, where everybody who develops machines and likes technology is made responsible for everything bad on the planet.

Germany tries, albeit in a patheticlal way, to make a change to renewable energy, wich is a good and clever idea. But almost all people i know hate solar power and windmolls because they look too futuristic and work against the charm of nature. They don't want coal or nuclear power either, and like the idea, that going away from a technological society back to a medieval famring culture ist the way to go.

Also computers, internet, biotechnology and any kind of car ist seens as evil.

Personally, I would like to know, if this kind of "back to primitive" movement ist present in other cultures around the world, or if its only the conservative germans.
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#2
PhoenixRu

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My observations in he last year show, that in my home country, germany, many people are and become more and more technophobe, to the point, where everybody who develops machines and likes technology is made responsible for everything bad on the planet.

 

No, this (fear and disbelief in science, growing gap between science and public) is a worldwide trend.

 

Personally, I would like to know, if this kind of "back to primitive" movement ist present in other cultures around the world, or if its only the conservative germans.

 

Of course! There are a lot of people discussing "evils of internet" online and so on. But, for some reason, no one goes beyond talking: throw out the phone, disconnect from the Internet, sell the car and buy a horse, stop being the office hamster and begin to plow your field...


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#3
tomasth

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Is it really world wide trend ? Does it exist in china and japan ?

There were always being primitivists in western countries.

#4
PhoenixRu

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Is it really world wide trend ? Does it exist in china and japan ?

There were always being primitivists in western countries.

 

Well, maybe not entirely worldwide. No idea about Japan. As for China, they seem to have the real cult of science and technology.



#5
Derree

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Thank you all for your replies. So it is a worldwide trend. I wonder, if we, mankind, lose our advanced technology, and go back to 17th hundred primitivity.
Despite my age of 43y Iam thinking about studying EE, as i love electronics, physics and maths. I am attending a preparation class at the moment. My neighbour asked me, why I am thinking about becoming a bad guy doing this. I was shocked tbh.

What do you guys think are the reasons, that so many people lose their connection to science and technology?

#6
Raklian

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Each country has its share of technophobes and techo-worshippers. Most people are in the middle, the average layperson who is forced to use technology either because their jobs demand it or they don't want to be shunned out of social groups.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#7
TranscendingGod

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Well, while trust in institutions has been declining writ large trust in scientists has actually remained fairly stable. The uptake of new technologies as relates to consumer electronics and medicine, especially, has been continuing apace. So in popular opinion as well as in pragmatic application I don't see any such trend of a regression. 


The growth of computation is doubly exponential growth. 


#8
starspawn0

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There are a lot of people out there who, for example, enjoy building a tee-pee or a log cabin. Why do they do that, instead of just have someone come and build a little shed with wood planks; or build the shed themselves? Also, why do some people enjoy planting and tending-to their own gardens?

I think there is a certain satisfaction in:

1. Understanding how the cabin or tee-pee is constructed;

2. Building it with your own hands (or planting and tending-to a garden with your own hands);

3. Working design, art, and craft into your construction;

4. Feeling you are not beholden to anyone else for shelter or sustenance, as you can produce both easily.


Now, contrast that with modern computer equipment, smartphones, and advanced solar panels. All of those are extremely complex -- out of reach of any single individual to produce on their own. It would take many years of education to understand all the science and tech foundations required to make a smartphone, for instance; and there's no way one could do it with ones bare hands, alone.

I think to some people that is a turn-off. They'd rather stick to log cabins and tee-pees and gardens. Maybe they use an occasional smartphone or computer to access social media, or a TV to keep up with the news, and a car to drive to work; but that's about the extent of their contact with advanced technology.

#9
Derree

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There are a lot of people out there who, for example, enjoy building a tee-pee or a log cabin. Why do they do that, instead of just have someone come and build a little shed with wood planks; or build the shed themselves? Also, why do some people enjoy planting and tending-to their own gardens?I think there is a certain satisfaction in:1. Understanding how the cabin or tee-pee is constructed;2. Building it with your own hands (or planting and tending-to a garden with your own hands);3. Working design, art, and craft into your construction;4. Feeling you are not beholden to anyone else for shelter or sustenance, as you can produce both easily.Now, contrast that with modern computer equipment, smartphones, and advanced solar panels. All of those are extremely complex -- out of reach of any single individual to produce on their own. It would take many years of education to understand all the science and tech foundations required to make a smartphone, for instance; and there's no way one could do it with ones bare hands, alone.I think to some people that is a turn-off. They'd rather stick to log cabins and tee-pees and gardens. Maybe they use an occasional smartphone or computer to access social media, or a TV to keep up with the news, and a car to drive to work; but that's about the extent of their contact with advanced technology.

I think I know what you mean, but my observations are subject of an other phenomenon: hate for technology in general. The leftist "Vulcan Group" for example set a combined power and signal line in Berlin on fire, to kill a whole mobile radio system, a rail signal line and a power line for 6500 people and a hospital. The group said, Technology has to disappear, even when it costs the life of humans. The same Group set another power and signal line on fire 3 weeks ago, again in Berlin, to show how radical they can act. They even use technology to damage criticlal infrastructural systems.

It is not the loghouse building outdoor freak I am talking about, but some kind of unabombers, which find not so little sympathy within the german society.

#10
Yuli Ban

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Of course! There are a lot of people discussing "evils of internet" online and so on. But, for some reason, no one goes beyond talking: throw out the phone, disconnect from the Internet, sell the car and buy a horse, stop being the office hamster and begin to plow your field...

The fundamental issue here is that we've somehow managed to detach "technology" from "quality of life" when discussing these things.

You never hear people speak in technophobic lingo when discussing whether they have clean water, fresh food, constant electricity, or decent housing despite all of those being possible for large masses of people thanks to the progression of technology. If people have cars, public transport, or bikes they can use to get to work and back, that's a sign of quality of life and something people should have. Access to knowledge via libraries and bookstores is a good thing, right? And if people can keep in contact with others and aren't living in total darkness, we think they're living fairly well. 

 

Imagine telling someone "I don't want you to read books because that's evil" or "I don't want you to have clean water because that's unnatural." We'd consider them to be sociopaths at best.

 

But when you bring up words like "internet" or "smartphones," suddenly things are unnatural and we're talking only about technology in a void of context. 

 

The cold fact is that many people in the world would love to be able to use the internet to further their lives or use self-driving cars to stay safe on the roads because it's an improvement from their lot in life. They're still living in lightless villages walking on dirt roads. To them, having access to knowledge and entertainment on a global scale would improve their lives exponentially, and the only people claiming otherwise tend to be overly nostalgic Luddites or crypto-chauvinistic blue-hairs who think they know what's best for the Darkies.

 

As for the people already living in these places where we have access to so much, technophobia is less a spiritual issue and more an issue of ennui and talking about the intricacies of modern tech not unlike what aristocrats of olden times would feel if they lived most of their lives surrounded by luxury. They would curse the salons and the orchestras and dream of returning to a more primal state where they lived with nature, free of the bonds of society.

Actually ask these effete aristocrats to move out of their chateaus and into paleolithic stone & branch huts working all day without any modern tools or luxuries, and they'll immediately back up and say, "No thank you, because I have to do X, Y, or Z." 90% of those who say "Yes" regret it within a few days. And the last few who make the move and enjoy it have to contend with the fact so many rejected their new lifestyle outright or gave up too soon and realize that they're actually the minority. 

 

And to be fair, I'm sure plenty of people would love to live lives without modern amenities like the Amish & Mennonites, but simply can't because they don't want to deal with poverty, either in the form of actually working the land and only eating what it gives, or in the form of failing to adapt entirely and then moving back home & realizing you've been fired from your job and have had your house repossessed (and that's if you didn't sell all your worldly possessions to begin with).

 

 

Funnily enough, the continued progression of technology will eventually bring us to a point where we can rely on machines to do so much of our drudgery that many millions could decide to move out back into nature without any worry of societal contribution.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#11
Yuli Ban

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ALSO...
 

My observations in he last year show, that in my home country, germany, many people are and become more and more technophobe, to the point, where everybody who develops machines and likes technology is made responsible for everything bad on the planet.

Germany tries, albeit in a patheticlal way, to make a change to renewable energy, wich is a good and clever idea. But almost all people i know hate solar power and windmolls because they look too futuristic and work against the charm of nature. They don't want coal or nuclear power either, and like the idea, that going away from a technological society back to a medieval famring culture ist the way to go.

Also computers, internet, biotechnology and any kind of car ist seens as evil.

Personally, I would like to know, if this kind of "back to primitive" movement ist present in other cultures around the world, or if its only the conservative germans.

 
 
Meanwhile...
 

The Judeus are a small subculture of primitivists  who are dedicated to living neolithic lifestyles, typically that of horticulturalists, pastoralists, and sometimes even hunter-gatherers. Sometimes labeled "paleoniks", the movement started in 2020s Germany by back-to-Earth eco-hipsters, became a meme that wound up having genuine supporters, and spread throughout Europe and East Asia.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#12
tomasth

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East Asia ? Interesting.

We should worry more of relative primitivists in our midst , rather then the of the opposite direction.




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