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When the Soviet Union would have become the biggest economy if Gorbachev didn't take power CIA statistics

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#1
10 year march

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Hey guys via reading US government documents on the USSR, covering there predictions for the Soviet unions economy and its past economic growth.

Then looking at IMF and World bank predictions for various countries economic growth and future GDP's.

I have determined when the USSR would have become the world's hegemon if Gorbachev didn't get power.(He was a Labour partyish capitalist and the USSR ended under his leadership.)

The USSR would have become the world's biggest economy in nominal GDP terms by 2096 despite having a population much smaller then China and India but bigger then USA.

In the year 2100 the USSR would have had a nominal GDP of 95.75 Trillion.

In the year 2100 China will have a nominal GDP of 86.15 trillion.

In the year 2100 India will have a nominal GDP of 77.82 trillion.

In the year 2100 the USA would have had a nominal GDP of USA 45.33 trillion.

#2
Cloned

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А вам платит за сообщение или подсчитывают слова? Просто интересно.



#3
Outlook

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I agree, but I'd be wary comparing statistics. There was still a gap in advancement between the US and USSR. The US industrialized before the USSR, and so predicting their trends based on a similar time-frame would make it a bit off-set.

 

 

А вам платит за сообщение или подсчитывают слова? Просто интересно.

 

10ym is too innocent and pure to be a Russian bot. Harass PhoenixRu but don't harass our golden boy.


Outlook's secret song of the ~week: https://youtu.be/GMYezR1cwFA


#4
joe00uk

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А вам платит за сообщение или подсчитывают слова? Просто интересно.

Lmao, that's a bit rich coming from you. Btw, shouldn't you be banned already?



#5
PhoenixRu

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А вам платит за сообщение или подсчитывают слова? Просто интересно.

 

Translation: "I'm just curious: are they counting words or paying you for a post as a whole?"

 

If you think about, this is just amazing:

 

1) The person SERIOUSLY believing that "commie" posts can only be written by paid Russian trolls. Sounds perfectly logical, current Russian government is very interested to spread the communist ideas.

 

2) The person doing his (her?) best to "reveal" these trolls.

 

Harass PhoenixRu, but don't harass our golden boy.

 

Will not be as easy as it seems, I'm afraid... I (as well as nearly every other of futuretimeliners) could easily "harass" him to death but:

 

1) In general, I respect this forum and don't want to turn it into scrapyard.

 

2) In case of Cloned, it would be just merciless, there seems to be a purely psychiatric problem:

 

 

I've known a lot of Russians.  They're good people, generally.  All the ones I've known are very moral 

A lot means more than three, and they all are PHD's?

 

What do they think of America depends on who their owner is. 

The Russians have no moral perception like most developed nations. If a particular person is already an American citizen and especially if his or her children were born in America - he will support the American government because it is a new master for him.

 

If he came to the US as a Russian citizen and did not intend to stay here - then the Americans are enemies of him who must be destroyed in one way or another.

 

My advice - never trust russians, no matter how nice they look and behave.

 

The most humane and right decision would be the blow of Banhammer. The quote above is enough for that. But since WjFox, for some reason, keeping him here, let's just ignore the shitposts and, instead, harass each other.

 

PS You're a proletarian now, so my congrats with 1 May! This day is reminder that we, the humble toilers, have essentially no reason to fight each other. When we're united, our oppressors will tremble, remember that! 



#6
caltrek

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So, why did the Soviet Union fall apart under Gorbachev?

 

Were things just going along all honky dory and then Gorbachev pulled the rug out from the glorious Soviet economy and glorious Soviet society?

 

Or were there deeper tensions and contradictions at work?

 

If so, what were the nature of those deeper contradictions and tensions?


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#7
PhoenixRu

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So, why did the Soviet Union fall apart under Gorbachev?

 

Were things just going along all honky dory and then Gorbachev pulled the rug out from the glorious Soviet economy and glorious Soviet society?

 

Or were there deeper tensions and contradictions at work?

 

If so, what were the nature of those deeper contradictions and tensions?

 

Things weren't good, but Gorbachev accelerated them. I'll just repost the reply from similar thread:

 

I'm afraid it was too late to save USSR in 1985, the overall crisis and rotting of the system have gone too far to be reversed. The last chance IMHO was sometime in 1960-s, and not in the direction of "market reforms" but quite the opposite: the further development of socialist productive forces (investments in industry, science, education), the social relations (real and not formal self-government of workers). This trend actually existed, but eventually the Soviet history went a different way: bureaucratic castration and fossilization of the party, economic and cultural stagnation, mass disappointment and cynicism and, eventually, the logical outcome. It would, perhaps, require a genius of Lenin's scale to deal with such a deep crisis. But lenins aren't born often.

 

One should understand: this is not an excuse for Gorbachev, the same way as this is not an excuse for a killer if his victim was already terminally ill.



#8
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I thought it was common knowledge that Gorbachev killed the Soviet Economy for some Pizza Hut.

Outlook's secret song of the ~week: https://youtu.be/GMYezR1cwFA


#9
caltrek

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What was perestroika and glasnost all about except an attempt to " further development of socialist productive forces (investments in industry, science, education), the social relations (real and not formal self-government of workers)."

 

Too little, too late, perhaps?

 

Oh yes, such restructuring included loosening up on and allowing bourgeois forces to flourish.  Must never let merchants own and operate their own small businesses.  That was just not "soviet" enough.

 

Or am I missing something?


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#10
caltrek

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I thought it was common knowledge that Gorbachev killed the Soviet Economy for some Pizza Hut.

 

You have got to be joking.  If not, citations please.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#11
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We can't also talk about the Soviet stagnation and decline without bringing up the one with the eyebrows.

EDIT:

@caltrek, see for yourself. The man who sold his country for a Supreme Lovers ® Pepperoni Pizza Large only $14.99


Outlook's secret song of the ~week: https://youtu.be/GMYezR1cwFA


#12
caltrek

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^^^The support for your argument is a Pizza Hut commercial?

 

Really?

 

Again, are you joking, or trying to make a serious point?

 

Even the commercial was clearly meant as a joke.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#13
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Yes, I believe the leader of the world's second largest economy based economic policy on whether he could get Pizza Hut or not. If that commercial isn't proof than this quote is. In an interview with the BBC, Gorbachev in a reply to criticisms from the commercial stated, "So what if I like Pizza Hut? You think I increased liberalisation just because I wanted Pizza Hut? *laughs* Maybe." You can google it, I don't have to link common fact.

If that doesn't convince you, in Chernobyl they were planning to open up the world's first soviet Pizza Hut there. There are documents to prove it. What happened? Well I guess you already know what happened.

Outlook's secret song of the ~week: https://youtu.be/GMYezR1cwFA


#14
caltrek

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Gorbachev laughed. See, even he thought of it as a joke.

 

It does remind me of an observation reported upon by Thomas Friedman.  No two countries, both with a McDonald's within their border, ever waged war upon each other.  That ended in the Balkans.

 

If your point is that Gorbachev was a liberal in the sense that he supported free trade principals, including allowance of fast food franchises owned locally but affiliated with a foreign corporation to exist in Russia.  Then maybe you are on to something.  Still, was the location of Pizza Hut and McDonald's franchises inside Russia really all that traumatic?

 

I can only laugh.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#15
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I was going to keep leading you on but I like you too much and I don't want to actually look like an idiot. I was joking from the beginning. It was just a reference to the pizza hut commercial initially that I thought PR would catch. It's a famous commercial for far-leftists who don't like Gorbachev.

 

And yet I haven't even begun with the connections between Pizza Hut administrative staff during the 1980s and the CIA.


Outlook's secret song of the ~week: https://youtu.be/GMYezR1cwFA


#16
caltrek

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I was going to keep leading you on but I like you too much 

 

I like you too. Thank you.  

 

I was joking from the beginning

 

As suspected.   :cool:

 

And yet I haven't even begun with the connections between Pizza Hut administrative staff during the 1980s and the CIA.

 

I will probably be sorry I asked...but what connections?

 

This does remind of a comment I made to somebody, probably in the 1980's, about how some of the foreign policy disputes between Democrats and Republicans were driven by the competition between Pepsi-Cola and Coca Cola. The person with whom I was having the discussion objected that this could not possibly be the case.  

 

Yes, U.S. imperialism and the related drive to expand markets takes many bizarre forms.  Mercantilism considerations can actually affect things like campaign contributions and assistance in expanding into other markets.

 

Still, was this the poison that Gorbachev introduced that proved to be so toxic?

 

Or, as I wrote earlier, was  it more a matter perestroika and glasnost being too little too late?


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls






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