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The Ultimate Killdroid: Unstoppable Omniscient Killing Machines

killer robots autonomous weapons unstoppable killing machine ultimate killbot supreme death machine Dalek unstoppable artificial intelligence robot Reddit

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#1
Yuli Ban

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A couple weeks ago, I read a very interesting showerthought that said out loud something that's been tickling the back of my brain for almost a decade now:
 
In movies killer robots almost always have two "eyes", meaning people can sneak up from behind and attack them. However, in reality, anyone designing a killer robot would it 360 degrees vision to prevent exactly that.
 
It's true! An actual Terminator wouldn't be a lumbering, overexposed silver humanoid with glowing red eyes. It'd be a pylon decked out with turrets and lasers. If anything, that makes it scarier. It'd be pure left-valley (e.g. far left on the Uncanny Valley), meaning it would have no humanlike features to speak of, instead being this abstract shape that kills.
 
eaglemossdalek.png
 
Seriously, the Daleks were actually onto something. 
 
 
kuahara

This is one of the things I complain about with respect to futuristic AI driven robot movies. "The robot shot at the slow, clumsy human and missed".
At least 10 years ago (2010ish), I watched a demo where the robot basically looked like a projector sitting on a table. It was equipped with a camera and two small mirrors. One of the mirrors could tilt forward/back vertically and the other tilted horizontally. It could move these together to get sight of anything in front of it. This was not the impressive part.
What impressed me about all this was that they had a TV hooked up to this thing so that you could see what the robot sees. This guy stood in front of it with a paddle ball toy and flung the ball around wildly. The program running just required the robot to follow the ball. They could pause and unpause. When it was paused, the screen showed the ball flailing around wildly, just like what you and I see. When it was unpaused... the mirrors went into action and the ball appeared perfectly still in the center of the screen. They even had it draw a smiley face on the red ball while it was moving. This ball that was flying around all over the place appeared perfectly still to our little projector looking friend. All I could think of was, "if they armed that thing with a gun that tilted the way those mirrors are tilting and let it fire.... humans would never have a chance".
Now before all the gun enthusiasts jump on me: I understand that this was just a demo in a room with a robot operating at very close range and no weather to take into consideration. But this is still a damn good first step and that technology by today's standards is old as hell. I don't really follow it, but I'd imagine tremendous improvements have been made over the last 10 years.

 
Seriously, let's think about a supreme death machine: a rolling tracked pylon maybe the size of a small building, powered by a nuclear reactor and tens of thousands of rounds of high-impact ammunition, large directed energy weapons, near instant (perhaps quantum-linked) connection to satellites and drones, and a quick-deployment Faraday Cage, all with a fairly advanced artificial intelligence powering it. To make our day particularly unlucky, it's running on a photonic computer as well, so it's computing at light speed.
 
wHPPem7.png
 
Unless you pit it against another perfect killbot.
 
 
Right off the bat, there is no way to actually hit this thing. It sees in 360° at all times. Every bullet that approaches it is tracked and countered with perfect accuracy. Every tank round is shot out of the sky; every ICBM is zapped away or shot down. It doesn't shoot where the bullets are at the current time; it shoots where it predicts they'll be, and it's factoring in every weather condition around it as well. Only a tiny fraction of any wave of fire will ever strike it due to probabilities failing it, and if its armor is thick enough, it is completely negligible. 
It can fire multiple bursts of its guns before the electrical impulses in our brains can fire to tell us of the current situation reaching our ocular nerves which could then be fed back to our brains to inform them to pull the trigger on our guns. There is no running from cover to cover as it misses a bunch of shots— the nanosecond the tiniest fraction of a human body emerges from cover, it's been spotted and will soon be eviscerated by gunfire. 
These things, powered by the full might of artificial intelligence, could take into account everything from wind speed, distance, bullet velocity, bullet mass, the flap of butterfly wings affecting wind currents an hour in advance, and so much more that we humans don't think about (I think I've talked a few years before about telescopic thinking and how humans are largely incapable of considering very tiny, microscopic events building up over time, often resulting in us claiming "God willed it" when the explanation was a thousand tiny different things coming together in a logical way). 
And let's not forget that they are not limited to human senses, nor will they be forced to min-max different abilities like in a video game or movie that's trying not to make its opponents too overpowered. We can make whatever we want overpowered in real life. Indeed, that's usually what we try to do.
 
BadW3rds

The odds of a killer robot only using the visual spectrum are pretty low.
 
They could combine acoustic, MMwave, thermal and IR to get a total image of anything around it.
 
All the technologies already exist. If a dome array can pinpoint a sniper, then I'm sure the tech could be used to identify anything around a killer bot.

 
A battle to destroy it, where you have the full might of the US military trying to destroy just one perfect killbot, will likely end with a sweeping US defeat and very minor damage to the bot itself. You can't even nuke the damn thing because it would just shoot the nuke out of the sky. And thanks to the quick-deployment Faraday cage, you couldn't even fry its electronics either. As they "think" at lightspeed, only lightspeed objects could possible affect them in any major way. Thus, "gotcha" sorts of weapons like a trusty railgun can also be predicted and at least avoided to an extent (though now you're getting into the territory of "even this killing machine will have trouble stopping it"). Triggering an earthquake from afar might also help, if you've exhausted all options and are willing to put humans in harms way to stop it at all costs.
 
Of course, if it's powered by a nuclear reactor, that might be on purpose: destroying it only releases radiation into the environment, meaning that even in death, it continues to kill.
 
Whatever you think is too fast or too much for it to comprehend is too fast or too much for you to comprehend; not this killing machine. There's a vast space of cognition beyond that humans can fathom.
 
Humans can't easily imagine splitting consciousness into multiple different entities; that's something this sort of bot will be capable of doing. There won't be just one ultimate killing machine but a whole swarm of them, all feeding back into each other. If even one could bring the United States to its knees, a small platoon of them could easily crush humanity several times over.
 
This all sounds hyperbolic, but the scary thing is, I think I'm actually understating just how dominating such a machine could be. This is just running with some basic facts about the abilities of computers and machines, not imagining some sort of magical phlebotinum. It's not my fault Hollywood undersells their full capabilities for the sake of drama and human victory narratives.
 
In reality, even the best human intuition and skill crumbles pathetically against the sheer godlike abilities of these robots. Such machines are unstoppable by all human efforts, barring the most extreme exploitation of the environment.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#2
Erowind

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A concentrated artillery barrage could bring it down. It suffers the same problem large tanks did in WWII but on a larger magnitude. It doesn't matter if the bot can predict the location of strikes and shoot down unavoidable impacts. It would only have so much ammo and could only move so quickly on tread. Non-kinetic weaponry has limits to how large of a round it can vaporize. That's not to mention how much the terrain itself would impede such a beast. Even a tank like the Maus, which is magnitudes smaller than this killbot was too large to use most bridges and would often sink into the ground. This thing would be slow nomatter the horsepower. Unless it's released in the Great Plains or something, then we're fucked. It would be a major pain to kill but larger state actors could do it without having a pyrrhic victory.

 

So the design needs a few improvements! Some light supermaterial that provides adequate protection but prevents the killbot from sinking. A fabrication plant built into the killbot to use surrounding materials and wreckage to manufacture new rounds. It also needs enough guns to outpace the rate of fire of the many thousands, likely hundreds of thousands of guns zeroed in on it. That's where the large state actor thing comes in. There are only so many barrels that can be fitted onto a small building. At some point the rate of fire from the killbots enemies would outpace it at which point its dead in the water.



#3
Revolutionary Moderate

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It would be vulnerable from underground attacks, so you could bury a bunch of nukes into the ground, wait until the killdroids arrive, and then blow them up. Also, nano machines could probably destroy them. 


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#4
Yuli Ban

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Very good points.

 

Perhaps I should specify that this super machine is unstoppable by conventional infantry, and I feel it might even have a case against artillery. Whatever benefit artillery may have is reduced the more of these machines you have. After all, even if there's a massive barrage of rounds, you have to remember that these droids can see them all coming and likely have more than enough ammunition to ward off any single barrage.

 

 

This not getting into discussion of drones, autonomous sentries, and automated supply lines.  No, a single super machine is enough to deal with.

 

Also, when it comes to underground nukes, that's definitely an example of what I mean when I say taking one out requires overkill solutions. 

 

Maybe... You know, thinking about it, it's possible that such machines could make catapults and trebuchets practical weapons of war again. It can shoot bullets out of the sky with perfect accuracy. Dropping bombs is hard because you'd have to get close enough to begin with. And it would take too long digging to plant an underground nuke— and it would most likely detect those tremors of working to do so anyhow. So why not just chug a 500-ton boulder at it?


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#5
Raklian

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A concentrated artillery barrage could bring it down. It suffers the same problem large tanks did in WWII but on a larger magnitude. It doesn't matter if the bot can predict the location of strikes and shoot down unavoidable impacts.

 

This strategy won't matter if the killbot, via it's quantum communication network among satellites, security cameras and every sensor you can imagine, launches a wide-assault preemptive strike on ground weapons capable of launching a coordinated attack on the killbot. Since its AI is capable of running through countless simulations how we would attack it at light speed via its photon-based computation, there is almost no point thinking of a clever strategy to defeat it unless we use an equal or stronger killbot against it. I guess in the future it will be about who designs and produces better killbots in enough quantities to overwhelm the enemy's. The "who" can be easily be a killbot itself capable of self-improvement and replication. I'm not even sure unaugmented humans can survive in such hellish world.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#6
Cyber_Rebel

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Whatever you think is too fast or too much for it to comprehend is too fast or too much for you to comprehend; not this killing machine. There's a vast space of cognition beyond that humans can fathom.

 
Humans can't easily imagine splitting consciousness into multiple different entities; that's something this sort of bot will be capable of doing. There won't be just one ultimate killing machine but a whole swarm of them, all feeding back into each other. If even one could bring the United States to its knees, a small platoon of them could easily crush humanity several times over.

 

So basically Reapers from Mass Effect? I suppose the Geth as well, as one outright stated sensory output from organic meatbags was primitively inefficient considering they could communicate at the speed of light. But what you're describing is very similar to how both machine intelligence(s) actually operate.

But that answers its own question. If the killbots were ever realistic then there would be no plot, hilariously this was a big complaint from this very example. The only reason the "Terminator" itself is no iconic is because it simply acts as a foil for us while also being fallible. John Conner will win because he believes he can, he's a human with emotions while T-800 is robotic in all aspects! It's understandable to the audience, and even moreso makes the audience feel special in their humanness.

In truth, the methods a perfected killbot could utilize would likely be similar to the Reaper example I'm using. It would have such a mastery of human emotion, prediction, and fallacy that this translates into tactics of subterfuge well beyond anything we could conceive of. It would get us to kill ourselves, likely well before itself needs to take any mundane action. Information is power after all, and we're feeding the algorithms a shit-ton of it.



#7
Raklian

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In truth, the methods a perfected killbot could utilize would likely be similar to the Reaper example I'm using. It would have such a mastery of human emotion, prediction, and fallacy that this translates into tactics of subterfuge well beyond anything we could conceive of. It would get us to kill ourselves, likely well before itself needs to take any mundane action. Information is power after all, and we're feeding the algorithms a shit-ton of it.

 

 

Yeah, it's merely our vanity to think we deserve to win in the face of any kind of adversity when there is nothing to support that assertion. This false confidence comes from the fact we've survived all those millions of years, nothing more.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#8
funkervogt

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Seriously, let's think about a supreme death machine: a rolling tracked pylon maybe the size of a small building, powered by a nuclear reactor and tens of thousands of rounds of high-impact ammunition, large directed energy weapons, near instant (perhaps quantum-linked) connection to satellites and drones, and a quick-deployment Faraday Cage, all with a fairly advanced artificial intelligence powering it. To make our day particularly unlucky, it's running on a photonic computer as well, so it's computing at light speed.
 
wHPPem7.png
 
Unless you pit it against another perfect killbot.
 
 
Right off the bat, there is no way to actually hit this thing. It sees in 360° at all times. Every bullet that approaches it is tracked and countered with perfect accuracy. Every tank round is shot out of the sky; every ICBM is zapped away or shot down. It doesn't shoot where the bullets are at the current time; it shoots where it predicts they'll be, and it's factoring in every weather condition around it as well. Only a tiny fraction of any wave of fire will ever strike it due to probabilities failing it, and if its armor is thick enough, it is completely negligible. 
It can fire multiple bursts of its guns before the electrical impulses in our brains can fire to tell us of the current situation reaching our ocular nerves which could then be fed back to our brains to inform them to pull the trigger on our guns. There is no running from cover to cover as it misses a bunch of shots— the nanosecond the tiniest fraction of a human body emerges from cover, it's been spotted and will soon be eviscerated by gunfire. 

 

Its finite ammunition supply would be its undoing. 

 

Also, what self-repair abilities does it have? What happens when one of its caterpillar treads snaps, and the death machine is immobilized? 

 

How would it avoid running over a large (but non-nuclear) anti-vehicle mine? They can't all be detected. 



#9
SeedNotYetSprouted

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There are quite a few ways to deal with it; some of them are fairly goofy and not at all technical.

 

  1. You could just flood the area that it's in. Sure, it might be waterproof, but it won't be mudproof. Mudskippers aren't even mudproof. It'll be immediately reduced to a fraction of its previous mobility. Then, you do what Erowind basically said: spray that b#^4 with heavy artillery.                                                                                                                                               
  2. You could also exploit the fact that it somehow has a deployable faraday cage. Having something like that implies that there's an orifice to its internal structure, and considering that this is supposedly going to be designed with at-a-moment's-notice readiness in mind, the machinations to deploy the cage are probably going to be finely tuned. Finely tuned machinations are easily disrupted machinations.  You could use the threat of an EMP to bait it into releasing its Faraday Cage, brutalize the Cage with rounds, and then watch as it retracts the cage and has its insides mangled by broken bits. You might counter by bringing up point defense, but having a Faraday cage inherently prevents the use of point defense as anything protruding from your cage would be exposed and thus defeat the purpose of your cage. 


#10
Raklian

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We're talking about an entity that is at least more intelligent than the smartest person on Earth. In this scenario, it's likely to be many times smarter.

 

Are we even sure we can even outwit the killbot? It's much more likely we're going to be the ones outwitted without even realizing it.

 

While we're furiously thinking how to destroy the killbot, it has already taken action and accounted for millions of possible contingencies, and we're literally minutes if not hours away from being obliterated. How do we even defeat that kind of opponent without the aid of our own killbot?


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#11
SeedNotYetSprouted

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If the only response to given solutions amounts to what is essentially Deus Ex Machina, then there is no point in having the discussion as it's just going to be a bore fest full of what are essentially the same sentences that have been repeated over and over again. We're not the first to consider a question like this, and there's no point in beating a dead horse, so we might as well try things out and spicen things up.



#12
Yuli Ban

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We're talking about an entity that is at least more intelligent than the smartest person on Earth. In this scenario, it's likely to be many times smarter.
 
Are we even sure we can even outwit the killbot? It's much more likely we're going to be the ones outwitted without even realizing it.
 
While we're furiously thinking how to destroy the killbot, it has already taken action and accounted for millions of possible contingencies, and we're literally minutes if not hours away from being obliterated. How do we even defeat that kind of opponent without the aid of our own killbot?

The catch is likely something I already mentioned.
 
WE won't destroy it (though it's not impossible to do so).
 

Unless you pit it against another perfect killbot

Barring an "all robots decide to kill humans" scenario, we have a situation where two unstoppable objects collide. The victor comes down to pure circumstance and the size of one's ammunition reserves as well as the speed at which its maintenance fleet can move.

 

I do agree that there's almost nothing to talk about. There's no human drama or clever strategies we can use. Either we scorch the entire country to bring it down or we sic another omniscient killbot on it, and the outcome of the battle turns out to have been decided 750 years ago when a boy skipped a pebble at a certain spot that eventually through the long winding paths of entropic time winds up causing one of the killbots to make a move 10 nanoseconds too late. Is it any wonder Hollywood doesn't make movies about giant killer all-seeing pylons?


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#13
Raklian

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I do agree that there's almost nothing to talk about. Lo and behold, is it any wonder Hollywood doesn't make movies about giant killer all-seeing pylons?

 

 

Right, there's no plot to stepping on an ant. It just gets stepped on. The end. Who wants to pay $20+ to watch a 2-second long movie about it?


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#14
funkervogt

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We're talking about an entity that is at least more intelligent than the smartest person on Earth. In this scenario, it's likely to be many times smarter.

 

Are we even sure we can even outwit the killbot? It's much more likely we're going to be the ones outwitted without even realizing it.

 

While we're furiously thinking how to destroy the killbot, it has already taken action and accounted for millions of possible contingencies, and we're literally minutes if not hours away from being obliterated. How do we even defeat that kind of opponent without the aid of our own killbot?

 

How does the killbot's supreme intelligence let it get around the fact that it will eventually run out of ammo? 



#15
Raklian

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We're talking about an entity that is at least more intelligent than the smartest person on Earth. In this scenario, it's likely to be many times smarter.

 

Are we even sure we can even outwit the killbot? It's much more likely we're going to be the ones outwitted without even realizing it.

 

While we're furiously thinking how to destroy the killbot, it has already taken action and accounted for millions of possible contingencies, and we're literally minutes if not hours away from being obliterated. How do we even defeat that kind of opponent without the aid of our own killbot?

 

How does the killbot's supreme intelligence let it get around the fact that it will eventually run out of ammo? 

 

 

Surely you don't think the killbot hasn't factored that into its calculations... right? We're talking about a level of intelligence that humans have no hope of reaching unaided.

 

It doesn't need to run out of ammo. It's intelligent enough to think of countless possibilities it can defeat us before it runs out of limited ammo. For example, it might calculate that to achieve its objective before running out of ammo it just needs to move to a position where its enemies are lined up so its gigawatt laser beam can obliterate all of them when it could've taken it multiple times to achieve the same result had it remained in the original position. It's those little things humans take a long time to figure out but for the killbot to instantly put into action the moment the battle starts. That action by the killbot may as well be a feint to disguise even more complicated stratagems which are being implemented simultaneously, like a veteran chess player thinking 10 or 20 moves ahead while playing against a novice. To the novice on the battlefield, the killbot's actions may be deceptively simple and straightforward but unbeknownst to the novice, the killbot is controlling drones mile or two away slicing power lines and planting bombs on a nearby dam, predicting a flood of electrified water will come raging this way, instantly disabling armored vehicles and troops. To fight against a killbot is to fight against a multi-dimensional thinker that can even consider a toilet paper as a weapon depending on how it's used. This is just a primitive example of what a killbot is capable of. 

 

Limited ammo is not necessarily a factor in determining who will end up the victor.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#16
funkervogt

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What if the killbot ran its simulations of all battle outcomes and realized it had a 0% chance of defeating humanity because it would eventually run out of ammo, or succumb to a lucky shot? 



#17
Maximus

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You could park kinetic missiles in orbit and shoot them at the killbot, like in Call of Duty: Ghosts. A solid metal rod travelling at hypersonic speed cannot be stopped by any armour, nor can they be intercepted. To increase the odds even further, you could implant mini-nukes at the center of each rod so that if you don't score a direct hit, at least you still have some chance of messing up the killbot. 

 

But then again, as others have pointed out, if it's the most intelligent thinking machine on the planet, it would have planned for this possibility. The kinetic missile satellites would have been among the first to be shot down, or hacked into and crashed/disabled. 



#18
PhoenixRu

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First and foremost, who and what for would create such a monster? As others pointed out, to destroy it you only have to wait when the damn thing runs out of ammo. You can launch the swarm of small and randomly (a key factor!) moving drones firing the swarms of simple missiles and wait...

 

I think the future of war lays in the opposite direction: not wise and armored walking mountains but exactly the swarms of artificial "flies" crossing the borders to target the carefully selected persons (enemy's key politicians and generals) while the victim country will not even be sure who launched these "flies". In case if "flies" are too dumb to cope with the task, there may also be the "pigeons" - the larger drones, hiding in the grass (not literally) and working as command centers for "flies".

 

Something like that, IMHO, will be possible within next 10-20 years.



#19
funkervogt

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First and foremost, who and what for would create such a monster? As others pointed out, to destroy it you only have to wait when the damn thing runs out of ammo. You can launch the swarm of small and randomly (a key factor!) moving drones firing the swarms of simple missiles and wait...

 

I think the future of war lays in the opposite direction: not wise and armored walking mountains but exactly the swarms of artificial "flies" crossing the borders to target the carefully selected persons (enemy's key politicians and generals) while the victim country will not even be sure who launched these "flies". In case if "flies" are too dumb to cope with the ask, there may also be the "pigeons" - the larger drones, hiding in the grass (not literally) and working as command centers for "flies".

 

Something like that, IMHO, will be possible within next 10-20 years.

I agree with this. 

 

A key attribute of autonomous weapons is that they are autonomous, meaning they don't need humans to remotely control them. That, for the first time in history, severs the link between the size of a country's human population and its military power. The smart move is to use this potential advantage by building enormous numbers of combat droids to overwhelm your enemy. Using your resources to do the opposite--building one, large killdroid that your human enemies can easily keep track of, outnumber, and surround--makes no sense. 



#20
Yuli Ban

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First and foremost, who and what for would create such a monster? As others pointed out, to destroy it you only have to wait when the damn thing runs out of ammo. You can launch the swarm of small and randomly (a key factor!) moving drones firing the swarms of simple missiles and wait...

Personally, I don't doubt that the USA would fund such a thing as a sort of doomsday weapon right alongside more practical and tactical weaponry like what you've mentioned.
After all, we did come up with SLAMs.

 

Holy fuck, this thing is ridiculous. When you take a missile to cause death, and its by-product is also death, and even when it finally crashes after completing its mission, it causes more death, you know you have an incredible design.
This thing has no way of not doing its job. That's really fucking incredible.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.






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