Jump to content

Welcome to FutureTimeline.forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Why do you think very few countries allow cryonics?


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1
Italian Ufo

Italian Ufo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,190 posts
I am one of the co-founder of the Longevity Party international and longevity Party italy. One of our main campaign is to promote the option of cryonics at the time of mental death in various countries around the world. Many statte reject the idea of cryonics. 1. Because some think is just a waist of money..( there is no scientific evidence at the moment that it will defently work) 2. Because it is against the ethics ( but that surprise me at times) 3. others just say for expenses...( but how expensive it is really?) Do you have any other ideas? why to don't make cryonics public just like cimiteries? why in Europe except for Russia there is not a single institute of cryonics?

#2
SG-1

SG-1

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,653 posts
  • LocationUS - Arkansas
I think it all comes down to public support. When someone says they want to be frozen at death, they are looked at like they are crazy. Until I found an interest in future technologies, I thought it was impossible and an eccentric (expensive) and almost religious attempt at something already crazy in itself. If we can let people know it isn't far fetched or shameful, then things will change.

Hey.  Stop reading.  The post is over.


#3
Italian Ufo

Italian Ufo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,190 posts

I think it all comes down to public support. When someone says they want to be frozen at death, they are looked at like they are crazy. Until I found an interest in future technologies, I thought it was impossible and an eccentric (expensive) and almost religious attempt at something already crazy in itself.

If we can let people know it isn't far fetched or shameful, then things will change.


Yes but how we can start to do that. We are thinking to create a refrendum in several countries as soon as partys get registred but even if we get to make a referendum I am not sure that many people will come to vote.
I can't forget the year 2005. In italy we had two referendums to make legislations on both storage of stem cells and the use of embroyinc stem cells. I was working at the ballot then and very few people came to vote. A big waste of money for the italian state.
For cryonics it may be even a greater disaster.
I think that the only way out is to find some privite investors, but even that is not an easy task.

#4
Craven

Craven

    Elephant in the forest

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,325 posts
  • LocationPoland, Cracow
I'm sure there will be opposition against freezing of live humans, since it will be considered same as euthanasia. Freezing of dead ones shouldn't bother anyone.
"I walk alone and do no evil, having only a few wishes, just like an elephant in the forest."

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone."

#5
King of Ace

King of Ace

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 196 posts
wait..if i am alive but i am cryonic,will i still be alive when i defrost like Cap-America ?

I am not a fan of S.T show "just don't like it" ,Its boring like hell but I love to see cool technology in coming years.

i don't live in really great english countries like some you guys, im alittle indian,chinese,enbgrish ,mexican, leaf village and soul society .


#6
Craven

Craven

    Elephant in the forest

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,325 posts
  • LocationPoland, Cracow
When you are frozen all your life finctions cease, so freezing means killing. Fact that you're sick and in great pain, or that you're killed with hope of being revived, or later may not concern people against it.
"I walk alone and do no evil, having only a few wishes, just like an elephant in the forest."

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone."

#7
King of Ace

King of Ace

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 196 posts
too bad,if i can still be alive,i would rather freeze myself till 100 more years for future awesomeness.

I am not a fan of S.T show "just don't like it" ,Its boring like hell but I love to see cool technology in coming years.

i don't live in really great english countries like some you guys, im alittle indian,chinese,enbgrish ,mexican, leaf village and soul society .


#8
Raklian

Raklian

    An Immortal In The Making

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,016 posts
  • LocationRaleigh, NC

When you are frozen all your life finctions cease, so freezing means killing. Fact that you're sick and in great pain, or that you're killed with hope of being revived, or later may not concern people against it.


I agree with you to an extent - freezing one's body is the same as making him dead, except for the part where matter in his body is "glassified," in other words, frozen still - it cannot decompose as in the case of being "traditionally" dead. When one is frozen, he is no longer aware that he exists because his brain ceases to function. That is where being dead and being frozen are the same. Now the question becomes, will a successful "defrosting" of this frozen person cause him to become aware of his self once again - a resumption of the continuity that was temporarily suspended? That's up for debate with no clear answers at the present time.
What are you without the sum of your parts?

#9
Kombaticus

Kombaticus

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 693 posts
If vitrification can be reversed without damage to the structure of the brain, then sure, it is the same person. That is why vitrification is different from freezing; ice crystals destroy the cells in living tissues. Also, Italian...You're a co-founder of a political party? Do you have a website or something?

"Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is an illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and I am content." -Conan the Cimmerian


#10
Raklian

Raklian

    An Immortal In The Making

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,016 posts
  • LocationRaleigh, NC

If vitrification can be reversed without damage to the structure of the brain, then sure, it is the same person. That is why vitrification is different from freezing; ice crystals destroy the cells in living tissues.


Exactly, vitrification is basically turning flesh into something akin to glass. Much better than freezing, but we do not know if we need to do better than vitification to achieve the best results possible. Lots of questions and so few answers.
What are you without the sum of your parts?

#11
SG-1

SG-1

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,653 posts
  • LocationUS - Arkansas
The only way to get public support is to show that it works. Until we can successfully show that we can bring someone back it won't matter how many people see advertisements about it. Maybe the best thing to do is try and get funding right now. Kickstarter, running ads on the internet for it and convincing a popular politician to donate money to it. Or someone influential. Once rich people see other rich people donating to it they should be more comfortable.

Hey.  Stop reading.  The post is over.


#12
Alric

Alric

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
Death is relative. People think it is black and white but it isn't. Things can happen where for example your heart stops but you can be revived. You obviously weren't entirely dead when your heart stop. In cryonics you are not dead, you are just mostly dead. There is no coming back from being totally dead, but it is possible if you are just mostly dead.

#13
Italian Ufo

Italian Ufo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,190 posts

If vitrification can be reversed without damage to the structure of the brain, then sure, it is the same person. That is why vitrification is different from freezing; ice crystals destroy the cells in living tissues.

Also, Italian...You're a co-founder of a political party? Do you have a website or something?


Hello Kombaticus,

Yes, I am one of the main members of the italian longevity party ( maybe the leader as soon as things get more defined) and also one of the main activists internationaly speaking. But the main responsible for the international allience is Ilia Stambler in Israel.
This initiative for this party was born a few months ago and it is slowly growing. We are editing a MANIFESTO at the moment and we are taking care of legal aspects and funds administration as well. There is no web page at this stage but we hope to launch it in 2013. Someone is already taking care of that. We are also creating a party logo.
Anyway you and all the other members of the FT can reach us on facebook. thats where all the conversations are taking places. We need everyone support.
Here I leave the list of contacts:


International ~ 'Longevity Party'
Group: https://www.facebook...longevity.party
Page: https://www.facebook.../LongevityParty
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LongevityParty
Skype chat: skype:?chat&blob=U7Kh1S1fz-S5wNTQsZ4fiHyURhZ3FEEB0l_krynLtN_FfpmbIW4CN1XaMd959g
Google+Page: http://plus.google.c...882886122749817
Google Dics Folder https://docs.google....mpiWWJPSjg/edit
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin....y-Party-4570082
LP Logo Contest: http://www.facebook....43622822350019/

Argentina ~ 'Longevity Party Argentina'
Group: https://www.facebook...yPartyArgentina

Australia ~ 'Longevity Australia'
Group: https://www.facebook...evity.australia

Belgium ~ 'Longevity Belgium'
Group: https://www.facebook...ongevitybelgium

Brazil ~ 'Longevity Brazil'
Group: http://www.facebook....73591192762440/

Canada ~ 'Longevity Party Canada'
Group: https://www.facebook...vityPartyCanada

China ~ 'Longevity Party China'
Group: http://www.facebook....vityPartyChina/

Denmark ~ 'Longevity Party Denmark ~ Frejas Dannevang'
Group: https://www.facebook...ityPartyDenmark

Finland ~ 'Longevity Finland - Pitkäikäinen Suomi'
Page (needs Group): https://www.facebook...ongevityFinland

France ~ 'Longévité & Santé'
Group: https://www.facebook...489429797748191

Georgia ~ 'Longevity Party Georgia'
Group: https://www.facebook...ityPartyGeorgia
Page: https://www.facebook...ityPartyGeorgia

Germany ~ 'Longevity Party Germany'
Group: https://www.facebook...ityPartyGermany

Hungary ~ 'Longevity Party Hungary'
Group: https://www.facebook...ityPartyHungary

Ireland ~ 'Longevity Party Ireland'
Group: https://www.facebook...ityPartyIreland

India ~ 'Longevity Party India'
Group: https://www.facebook...evitypartyindia

Israel ~ 'Israeli Group for Healthy Longevity'
Group: https://www.facebook...104845/?fref=ts

Italy ~ 'Longevity Party Italia'
Group: https://www.facebook...tito.longevista

Japan ~ 'Longevity Party Japan'
Group: http://www.facebook....ongevity.Japan/

Korea ~ 'Longevity Party Korea'
Group: https://www.facebook...153668691441017

Macedonia ~ 'Longevity Party Macedonia' (Yugoslavia Region)
Group: http://www.facebook....73765802743851/

Mexico ~ 'Salud, Dignidad y Longevidad (MEXICO)'
Group: https://www.facebook...229844353811442

Moldova ~ 'Longevity Moldova'
Group: http://www.facebook....56149071141429/

Netherlands ~ 'Longevity Party Netherlands'
Group: https://www.facebook...artyNetherlands

Norway ~ 'Longevity Norge'
Group: https://www.facebook...?ref=ts&fref=ts

Philippines ~ 'Longevity Party Philippines'
Group: https://www.facebook...rtyPhilippines/

Poland ~ 'Longevity Party Poland'
Group: http://www.facebook....464744/?fref=ts

Russia ~ 'Партия продления жизни' *Suggestion: 'Партия продления жизни ~ Life Extension Party' (includes english translation)
Group: https://www.facebook...379426208779525

Singapore ~ 'Longevity Party Singapore'
Group: https://www.facebook...yPartySingapore

South Africa ~ 'Longevity Party South Africa'
Group: https://www.facebook...469219753101470
Page : https://www.facebook...artySouthAfrica

Taiwan ~ 'Longevity Party Taiwan'
Group: http://www.facebook....ityPartyTaiwan/

Uganda ~ 'Longevity Party of Uganda'
Group: https://www.facebook...356678624407724

United Kingdom ~ 'Longevity Party UK'
Group: http://www.facebook....tyUnitedKingdom

Ukraine ~ 'Longevity Ukraine'
Group: https://www.facebook...ups/immi.portal

United States ~ 'Longevity Party United States'
Group: https://www.facebook...rtyUnitedStates
Page: https://www.facebook...sLongevityParty
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LongevityUS


Regards,
Max (Italian Ufo)

#14
Raklian

Raklian

    An Immortal In The Making

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,016 posts
  • LocationRaleigh, NC

Death is relative. People think it is black and white but it isn't. Things can happen where for example your heart stops but you can be revived. You obviously weren't entirely dead when your heart stop. In cryonics you are not dead, you are just mostly dead. There is no coming back from being totally dead, but it is possible if you are just mostly dead.


It's well known in the cryonics field that you are "totally" dead after information death (a state in the brain in which it is no longer possible to retrieve or salvage data that has shaped your identity). You're right, a heart stopping isn't enough by itself. Just a few decades ago, it wasn't possible for us to resuscitate a person from a heart attack - now we do it routinely and these heart attack victims have a chance to live many more years. I'm pretty sure within a few decades from now, we will have the capability to revive a person who has been "dead" for a few minutes or even hours.

The remaining technical challenge is to revive a person from a frozen state after curing or fixing whatever ailment that killed him in the first place.

Edited by Raklian, 15 November 2012 - 10:03 PM.

What are you without the sum of your parts?

#15
SG-1

SG-1

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,653 posts
  • LocationUS - Arkansas
While I would like to be born 100 years into the future, I think we are one of the luckiest generations to ever have been born. In 100 years we may not even exist, but more than likely we will and people will live forever with crazy technology. If you could go back to the 1930s and tell someone about 2012 they would think you lie. "No really, we have noted some species that live forever. We are trying to defeat aging in humans and while the average lifespan is only around 70, by the time you are 70 your lifespan may be in hundreds of years." I am totally for cryonics or any other means of longevity. We should do it even it if means we won't be able to use it. This is probably the most important scientific undertaking that has ever happened, even more than fire was. We have the potential to live forever, something that only Gods could do in stories from the ancient times. Now I'm not saying we are special or anything close to Gods, but humanity can do some superhuman things every once and a while.
  • Lily likes this

Hey.  Stop reading.  The post is over.


#16
Raklian

Raklian

    An Immortal In The Making

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,016 posts
  • LocationRaleigh, NC

While I would like to be born 100 years into the future, I think we are one of the luckiest generations to ever have been born. In 100 years we may not even exist, but more than likely we will and people will live forever with crazy technology.

If you could go back to the 1930s and tell someone about 2012 they would think you lie. "No really, we have noted some species that live forever. We are trying to defeat aging in humans and while the average lifespan is only around 70, by the time you are 70 your lifespan may be in hundreds of years."


I am totally for cryonics or any other means of longevity. We should do it even it if means we won't be able to use it. This is probably the most important scientific undertaking that has ever happened, even more than fire was. We have the potential to live forever, something that only Gods could do in stories from the ancient times. Now I'm not saying we are special or anything close to Gods, but humanity can do some superhuman things every once and a while.


Sometimes I envy young children we see these days - their immortality is almost guaranteed. :)

I know, I'm just 30 years old, but my gut is telling me I may live just long enough for an anti-aging breakthrough to come out while I will be minutes from dying. LOL Then, there is a chance I will be one of the oldest immortals to ever live OR the one of oldest living humans for the rest of the existence of the Universe. :biggrin:

Edited by Raklian, 15 November 2012 - 10:37 PM.

What are you without the sum of your parts?

#17
SG-1

SG-1

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,653 posts
  • LocationUS - Arkansas
I feel the same way. I'm 17, but even if I was born yesterday I am not entirely convinced I would have the chance of living forever. We will see.

Hey.  Stop reading.  The post is over.


#18
Italian Ufo

Italian Ufo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,190 posts
SG 1 YOU HAVE PLENTY OF TIME.... I AM PRETTY SURE YOU WILL SEE SOME AMAZING THINGS IN MEDICINE.... WHEN IT WILL BE AROUND 2060-70S MEDICINE WILL START SPEAD VERY FAST... I WILL BE VERY OLD THEN BUT MAYBE I HAVE GOOD CHANCES AS WELL TO LIVE FORVER

#19
King of Ace

King of Ace

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 196 posts
i will be 70 - 80 by the time...

I am not a fan of S.T show "just don't like it" ,Its boring like hell but I love to see cool technology in coming years.

i don't live in really great english countries like some you guys, im alittle indian,chinese,enbgrish ,mexican, leaf village and soul society .


#20
Italian Ufo

Italian Ufo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,190 posts


While I would like to be born 100 years into the future, I think we are one of the luckiest generations to ever have been born. In 100 years we may not even exist, but more than likely we will and people will live forever with crazy technology.

If you could go back to the 1930s and tell someone about 2012 they would think you lie. "No really, we have noted some species that live forever. We are trying to defeat aging in humans and while the average lifespan is only around 70, by the time you are 70 your lifespan may be in hundreds of years."


I am totally for cryonics or any other means of longevity. We should do it even it if means we won't be able to use it. This is probably the most important scientific undertaking that has ever happened, even more than fire was. We have the potential to live forever, something that only Gods could do in stories from the ancient times. Now I'm not saying we are special or anything close to Gods, but humanity can do some superhuman things every once and a while.


Sometimes I envy young children we see these days - their immortality is almost guaranteed. :)

I know, I'm just 30 years old, but my gut is telling me I may live just long enough for an anti-aging breakthrough to come out while I will be minutes from dying. LOL Then, there is a chance I will be one of the oldest immortals to ever live OR the one of oldest living humans for the rest of the existence of the Universe. :biggrin:


WE HAVE A SIMILAR AGE LOL... LETS SEE IT IN THIS PRESPECTIVE....WE HAD THE CHANCE TO SEE THE GLORIOUS 80S PLUS WE MAY LIVE FOREVER.. THE 80S ARE SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE SHOULDNT HAVE MISSED LOL!! AT LEAST I CONSIDER MYSELF LUCKY! :biggrin:




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users