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The Problem with Utopia:


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#21
Nick1984

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1. 3D printers that can produce anything all at the same time for 7 billion people? Get real! 2. Since when was human life valued in communism? Victims of the the Khmer Rouge's killing fields, 60 million who Mao had starve to death, the millions Stalin had die in Russian gulags, people this very day starving and eating grass in North Korea. Individual's lives never come before the state in communism. Have people ever been butchered and starved on such a scale in capitalist USA, EU, Britain, Japan, South Korea? NO!

#22
Wesfky

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1. 3D printers that can produce anything all at the same time for 7 billion people? Get real!

2. Since when was human life valued in communism? Victims of the the Khmer Rouge's killing fields, 60 million who Mao had starve to death, the millions Stalin had die in Russian gulags, people this very day starving and eating grass in North Korea. Individual's lives never come before the state in communism.

Have people ever been butchered and starved on such a scale in capitalist USA, EU, Britain, Japan, South Korea? NO!

1. Well i highly doubt that all 7 billion people be awake at once and every single person needs one at the exact time of the things invention, more likely that a family has a single 3D printer, and like we see with cars, they are not used 100% so we do not need most of them, so realistically when something breaks in your home you would use the apartment's 3D printer.

2. Well seeing how it is fundamentally based on human life being valued, if it is not, it is not communism. Mao revolutionised China, from a country full of farmers to the super power it is now, that will eventually eclispse the USA, with a growth of population of 550 million to 900 million people while Mao was in office.

Well seeing how this are basically the most rich countries in the world... I doubt any stunning examples can be made compared to Mao, however...
The recent disaster in Japan is a good example. How much help did Japan receive, enough? More could of been done to help them.
Slavery in modern USA http://www.futuretim...tyle_emoticons/animate/thumbup.gif http://www.gourmet.c...laves-follow-up
Also 15% of USA citizens are below the poverty line!

Every revolution in history has been a violent one, yet these examples are still common place in today's society

Have people ever been butchered and starved on such a scale in capitalist Congo, India, Sudan, Palestine, South Africa....? YES! and all the sweetshops in the world that are justified by maximising profits.
Also NATO has justified the killings of thousands of innocent people, not to forget the continue operations in the Middle East by the USA Collateral Murder

But that does not count does it? Because it was not their own government....

#23
Nick1984

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No, I think you'll find it was Deng Xiaoping who started the rise of China with his economic reforms in the 1980s. Mao wanted to turn the whole of China into a peasant farming shithole and during the Cultural Revolution closed all the schools and sent teachers to work as farmers in the countryside. The fact that Deng's capitalist reforms have lifted half a billion out of poverty and reversed Mao's backwards collectivist policies is a valuable history lesson that utopianists like yourself should take into account. All Mao can be credited with is uniting China's provinces after the mess caused by years of backwards imperialism and the Japanese occupation.

#24
Nick1984

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Watch all 9 parts.

#25
Wesfky

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No, I think you'll find it was Deng Xiaoping who started the rise of China with his economic reforms in the 1980s. Mao wanted to turn the whole of China into a peasant farming shithole and during the Cultural Revolution closed all the schools and sent teachers to work as farmers in the countryside. The fact that Deng's capitalist reforms have lifted half a billion out of poverty and reversed Mao's backwards collectivist policies is a valuable history lesson that utopianists like yourself should take into account.

All Mao can be credited with is uniting China's provinces after the mess caused by years of backwards imperialism and the Japanese occupation.

Hmmm probably shouldn't have tried to justified Mao, seeing how you are ignoring the majority of my post.

I'll watch the 90min video soon...

#26
Nick1984

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Well the rest of your post was a bit of a joke, you listed the most culturally backward countries in the world (apologies to any moderate Muslims on the forums) and blamed the west for their problems. While the developed rich world follows logic, these backwards countries follow medieval dogma. If they reject modern science and education, is it any surprise they work in sweatshops?

#27
Wesfky

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Well the rest of your post was a bit of a joke. you listed the most culturally backward countries in the world (apologies to any moderate Muslims on the forums) and blamed the west for their problems. While the developed rich world follows logic, these backwards countries follow medieval dogma. If they reject modern science and education, is it any surprise they work in sweatshops?


Palestine, oh god I am laughing at the on going genocide that will be worse then the holocaust. I do not know whats funnier, that you known what is happening or that they had this coming because they are not rich. http://www.futuretim...tyle_emoticons/animate/thumbup.gif

Seriously if everyone was rich there would be no problems, DAMN POOR PEOPLE GET RICH SO ALL THE PROBLEMS CAN END!

#28
Nick1984

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What's your solution to the middle east problem, oh I bet you have an ever so simple solution don't you.

#29
Wesfky

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What's your solution to the middle east problem, oh I bet you have an ever so simple solution don't you.

The problems in Palestine and the Middle East are two completely different problems.

Edit: But have the same solution, stop killing innocent people.

#30
Nick1984

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Indeed, like blowing yourself up on a bus full of civilians, but as all Jews are greedy selfish pigs it doesn't really matter when the shoe's on the other foot. We should only EVER care about those poor Palestinians. If you hate the west so much why don't you leave, I hear Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan and North Korea are such lovely places to live, inspite of the rest of the world's evil capitalist ways. I'll stay here and enjoy my freedom, food, electricity, music, Internet, movies, videogames... and you go off and do whatever it is people do for enjoyment in these socialist/Islamist self-sabotaging shit holes.

#31
Wesfky

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Indeed, like blowing yourself up on a bus full of civilians, but as all Jews are greedy selfish pigs it doesn't really matter when the shoe's on the other foot. We should only EVER care about those poor Palestinians.

I think its funny that Israelis believe that two wrongs make a right. If you do not agree with us kill Palestinians then you agreed with Hitler when he did the Holocaust.

#32
Nick1984

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You're comparing the middle east conflict with the mass extermination of Jews in Nazi Germeny? That's it, I give up, you really are retarded aren't you.

#33
Wesfky

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What image extensions are allowed on this forums?

So I can commence a dump of all my LF content, it relevant to everything in this thread.

You're comparing the middle east conflict with the mass extermination of Jews in Nazi Germeny? That's it, I give up, you really are retarded aren't you.


Firstly, Palestine not the middle east. I will explain in due time my friend, for now I have to sleep after staying up to watch the shuttle launch.

#34
Nick1984

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What image extensions are allowed on this forums?

So I can commence a dump of all my LF content, it relevant to everything in this thread.


You're comparing the middle east conflict with the mass extermination of Jews in Nazi Germeny? That's it, I give up, you really are retarded aren't you.


Firstly, Palestine not the middle east. I will explain in due time my friend, for now I have to sleep after staying up to watch the shuttle launch.


I wasn't claiming it to be part of any geographical location, the Israel/Palestine conflict has always been called the 'Middle East conflict'.

Is this your attempt at winning some points back after making a complete tit of yourself earlier in the thread?

#35
jjf3

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Africa is not run by capitalism its run by dictators. You have some good points about 3D printing but this won't happen until the FAR future. Not now!!!! It is impossible to set up a communist/utopia society right now, we don't have the technology, resources, and quite possibly the maturity to do so. You say that whoever runs and operates the 3D printers will decide when the items get shipped out, when the items get made, so in effect they will rule society. This makes it pretty much a dictatorship and not a utopia, because whoever will run the 3D printers' software, and hardware will have the ultimate decision and will be able to do as he pleases because he is in control of the power! "With great power comes great responsibility." Would you trust the creators?? I have even predicted that at some point in the future Africa will be saved and made futile again with a 3D printer but then again, whoever creates this 3D printer will have the ultimate control over society. I think the greed once again will overcome the good. This isn't saying that humans aren't good, Greed is way more powerful! 3D printing will help in many ways yes! However, even if we were to get printing up to a level where people can create almost anything they want. There will still be greed and envy. You may have a hotter wife then me, you may have a nicer location for your house, you may have a better 3D printer! 3D printing won't get rid of a basic human emotion.
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#36
Wesfky

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Africa is not run by capitalism its run by dictators.

You have some good points about 3D printing but this won't happen until the FAR future. Not now!!!! It is impossible to set up a communist/utopia society right now, we don't have the technology, resources, and quite possibly the maturity to do so.

You say that whoever runs and operates the 3D printers will decide when the items get shipped out, when the items get made, so in effect they will rule society. This makes it pretty much a dictatorship and not a utopia, because whoever will run the 3D printers' software, and hardware will have the ultimate decision and will be able to do as he pleases because he is in control of the power! "With great power comes great responsibility." Would you trust the creators??

I have even predicted that at some point in the future Africa will be saved and made futile again with a 3D printer but then again, whoever creates this 3D printer will have the ultimate control over society. I think the greed once again will overcome the good. This isn't saying that humans aren't good, Greed is way more powerful!

3D printing will help in many ways yes! However, even if we were to get printing up to a level where people can create almost anything they want. There will still be greed and envy. You may have a hotter wife then me, you may have a nicer location for your house, you may have a better 3D printer! 3D printing won't get rid of a basic human emotion.

hurr derr, this is the future time line, we only talk about the future here, just like the socialism website talks only about socialism.

#37
Wesfky

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What image extensions are allowed on this forums?

So I can commence a dump of all my LF content, it relevant to everything in this thread.


You're comparing the middle east conflict with the mass extermination of Jews in Nazi Germeny? That's it, I give up, you really are retarded aren't you.


Firstly, Palestine not the middle east. I will explain in due time my friend, for now I have to sleep after staying up to watch the shuttle launch.


I wasn't claiming it to be part of any geographical location, the Israel/Palestine conflict has always been called the 'Middle East conflict'.

Is this your attempt at winning some points back after making a complete tit of yourself earlier in the thread?

Haha, you are kidding right?

#38
Keitaro2011

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I might just interject here by saying you could problably educate people about where our instincts come from and offer to genetically remove greed from their personality. Not desire per se, but just so that they won't act at the expence of others.
It's apparent to me that a lot of people seem to want to prove why a technology is not possible, rather than think of ingenious ways to make something possible. It's my conviction that when someone says something is "impossible," what they really mean is "our current level of science cannot explain this, and I don’t have the motivation to explore beyond its boundaries." -Richard Obousy

#39
OrbitalResonance

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This is relevant due to the mention of 3d printing.

The company 3d systems (they make 3d printers) went public a few weeks ago. I made +800 in my stock simulator. They will continue to rise in price.

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We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. - Carl Sagan


#40
Wesfky

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You're comparing the middle east conflict with the mass extermination of Jews in Nazi Germeny? That's it, I give up, you really are retarded aren't you.

Firstly, Palestine not the middle east.
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