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4000 CE: Will we create universes?


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#21
FutureOfToday

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I am very much on the fence about this whole idea, whichever way I try to think of it, it always seems to end up as a brutal brainrape. The 'inhabitants' of this virtual universe would not actually be concious of anything, though, because their existence is purely based on the way a hard drive (or 4000's equivalent of a hard drive) is processing what it has been programmed to do. Sure, a computer may be able to have enough storage to hold the information of the entire universe, but does that mean that a new universe has been created? (I know exactly what I mean, but it's so difficult to put into words!) - when do you think it will be possible to create a universe where everything is actually physical, and not virtual, in the same form as our universe right here?

#22
zEVerzan

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Raises some interesting questions about free will and existence, doesn't it?

 

Just to be clear, nobody is actually programming any kind of consciousness into the inhabitants; the whole process is basically a glorified particle simulator, and their consciousness would arise organically as the particles interact. After all, isn't our consciousness just made of particles interacting in just the right way? All matter regresses into smaller and smaller building blocks. A brain is composed of brain cells, brain cells are composed of molecules, molecules are composed of atoms, atoms are composed of quarks, etc.

 

If you take a universe's worth of virtual atoms and apply a certain algorithm to make them act, they will build a universe.

 

Is this working for you yet?


I always imagined the future as a time of more reason, empathy, and peace, not less. It's time for a change.
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#23
FutureOfToday

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But if this a computer-generated universe, where are these 'particles' coming from? lol, don't worry! I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, I don't even know how telephones are possible without witchcraft. ;)

#24
CLB

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Telephones ARE witchcraft. I'm sure of it. Back on topic, I don't think it matters whether the universe is real or a simulation. If life originates there, than how is it different from a person uploading their mind to a VR environment?

If something I say sounds like trolling/being stupid/offensive, please forgive me. I'm bad with people.


#25
bee14ish

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Aha, I was waiting for that. That's where things get a little complicated, and very theoretical. The thing is, there would be no difference between a perfectly simulated universe and a "real" one. If every atom in the "false" universe acts realistically, infinite possibilities would bloom from altering a few universal constants such as gravity, the speed of light, etc.

 

Say, for example, a exact replica of our universe is simulated. Every constant is the same, and every event plays out in this universe exactly as it did in ours; there would be no difference. This Whoville is just as real to its inhabitants as our universe is to us.

 

This applies to every universe we create.

 

If it is possible to simulate a universe on a computer, this means with nearly 100% certainty that our universe is a simulation as well as every other in existence. To assume our universe is the first and only takes arrogance of the highest degree.

 

Very meta.

If our universe is a simulation and every other universe is a simulation, where did it all begin?



#26
FutureOfToday

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This is starting to get very philosophical here!

#27
zEVerzan

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If our universe is a simulation and every other universe is a simulation, where did it all begin?

 

Who knows. When talking about infinity, you have to consider that any finite number compared to infinity will always equate to 0.

 

If there is an infinite amount of universes, there is no beginning. This cycle of universe creation has been and always will be.

 

At least, that's the answer I'm willing to accept.


I always imagined the future as a time of more reason, empathy, and peace, not less. It's time for a change.
Attention is currency in the "free marketplace of ideas".
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#28
WithoutCoincidence

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There may not be any 'real' universe to begin with. It may be a sort of thing like Predestination is with time. But the way I see it, there is at present no observable evidence to support the idea that we're in a simulation, so I don't believe we are. All else is just thought-experiments which, while nice, are no substitute for the scientific process.

 

That said, the year 4000 is a shitload of Moore's Law. I did the math, and not even considering AI upgrading themselves at above-Moore-rates, if Moore's law remains constant than by the year 4000 when they 'max' they will be 5 googol*googol*googol*googol times more powerful than now. Which is pretty damn insane if you think about it, since there aren't even a googol particles in the observable universe to begin with. 


The universe has gone from unimaginable, featureless heat to complexity and it will return in time to unimaginable, featureless cold.

-Chris Impey, How It Ends


#29
CLB

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Wow. Imagine playing computer games on a computer 5*10^400 times more powerful than they are now... Just joking. The scientific uses of this would be immense. Imagine analysing every molecule in your body once per second, and automatically correcting any mistake in your DNA before it becomes an issue. I did convert 5 googol*googol*googol*googol into standard form correctly, didn't I?

If something I say sounds like trolling/being stupid/offensive, please forgive me. I'm bad with people.


#30
WithoutCoincidence

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Think so, yes. I just wrote out the googols for emphasis :-)


The universe has gone from unimaginable, featureless heat to complexity and it will return in time to unimaginable, featureless cold.

-Chris Impey, How It Ends


#31
zEVerzan

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Quadroogol?


I always imagined the future as a time of more reason, empathy, and peace, not less. It's time for a change.
Attention is currency in the "free marketplace of ideas".
I do other stuff besides gripe about the future! Twitter Youtube DeviantArt +-PATREON-+

#32
bee14ish

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Wow. Imagine playing computer games on a computer 5*10^400 times more powerful than they are now... Just joking. The scientific uses of this would be immense. Imagine analysing every molecule in your body once per second, and automatically correcting any mistake in your DNA before it becomes an issue. I did convert 5 googol*googol*googol*googol into standard form correctly, didn't I?

That would be too easy. An AI of this scale would be God-like and should, in my opinion, operate on a scale much higher than any humans. Single worlds would be insignificant to this thing, as it would be so smart, nothing we do down here could affect it. I may be starting to stretch it a bit but it's never a bad thing to think big right?  :)


Edited by bee14ish, 26 April 2013 - 01:38 AM.


#33
FutureOfToday

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I think when computers with infinite power are developed, they could just do literally everything virtually, and get rid of all physical civilisation for the sake of it.

#34
Lucchese

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Aha, I was waiting for that. That's where things get a little complicated, and very theoretical. The thing is, there would be no difference between a perfectly simulated universe and a "real" one. If every atom in the "false" universe acts realistically, infinite possibilities would bloom from altering a few universal constants such as gravity, the speed of light, etc.

 

Say, for example, a exact replica of our universe is simulated. Every constant is the same, and every event plays out in this universe exactly as it did in ours; there would be no difference. This Whoville is just as real to its inhabitants as our universe is to us.

 

This applies to every universe we create.

 

If it is possible to simulate a universe on a computer, this means with nearly 100% certainty that our universe is a simulation as well as every other in existence. To assume our universe is the first and only takes arrogance of the highest degree.

 

Very meta.

<Philosophy>One problem with this idea is the fact that as the number of simulations inside simulations increases, so does the likelyhood of one simulation glitching out or malfunctioning. If you take this loop to infinity, the chances of one simulation shutting down also becomes infinity, thus ending all of our reality. This means that the our universe could likely be "real". Then again define real...</Philosophy>



#35
SG-1

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Aha, I was waiting for that. That's where things get a little complicated, and very theoretical. The thing is, there would be no difference between a perfectly simulated universe and a "real" one. If every atom in the "false" universe acts realistically, infinite possibilities would bloom from altering a few universal constants such as gravity, the speed of light, etc.

 

Say, for example, a exact replica of our universe is simulated. Every constant is the same, and every event plays out in this universe exactly as it did in ours; there would be no difference. This Whoville is just as real to its inhabitants as our universe is to us.

 

This applies to every universe we create.

 

If it is possible to simulate a universe on a computer, this means with nearly 100% certainty that our universe is a simulation as well as every other in existence. To assume our universe is the first and only takes arrogance of the highest degree.

 

Very meta.

I'm so meta even this acronym


Hey.  Stop reading.  The post is over.


#36
zEVerzan

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<Philosophy>One problem with this idea is the fact that as the number of simulations inside simulations increases, so does the likelyhood of one simulation glitching out or malfunctioning. If you take this loop to infinity, the chances of one simulation shutting down also becomes infinity, thus ending all of our reality. This means that the our universe could likely be "real". Then again define real...</Philosophy>

 

Never thought about it that way. Although...

<Handwave> It's a perfect machine, I ain't gotta explain shit. If a machine glitched out it wouldn't be perfect. :biggrin:</Handwave>

 

In all seriousness, it's all theoretical and there's absolutely no evidence for it... it's just a thought experiment that seems highly plausible, to me at least. A possible justification is that, since the amount of articulation needed to run a universe-sized simulation is immense, the probability of a colossal failure is very low, and even then it would only take out all universes below it. If this is the case, this hasn't happened to us.


I always imagined the future as a time of more reason, empathy, and peace, not less. It's time for a change.
Attention is currency in the "free marketplace of ideas".
I do other stuff besides gripe about the future! Twitter Youtube DeviantArt +-PATREON-+

#37
razer1994

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500 years is extremely optimistic. Before creating universes, we've got to overcome teleportation, time travel, forcefields, and things like that which will themselves probably take centuries. I think creating universes will take tens of thousands of years, and that's my most optimistic prediction.

 You don't know that, bro. Who are you to decide what kind of barriers we need to overcome? The whole point of this is that, by 4000 CE, computers will be advanced to their apex, to the very limits of what our laws of physics will allow. If it is possible to simulate a universe on a computer, we will have already done it by 4000 CE. Since we can already simulate an atom, it doesn't require much of a stretch of the imagination to conclude that it will be possible to simulate an entire universe on a computer given a sufficient amount of time. The act of simulating a universe is exactly the same as creating one, because the simulation is effectively an entire universe contained on a computer. Do you see what I am getting at here? And if we can create universes, naturally we will create thousands, millions of them, just for the sake of study.

We will be gods, enough said. xD




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