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Star Trek: "Money doesn't exist in the 24th century"


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40 replies to this topic

#1
wjfox

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#2
Italian Ufo

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I hope money will disappear but it is going to happen around the end of the 22 century.


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#3
Yuli Ban

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I wonder what will happen when money as a system is abolished.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#4
zen_mutiny

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Revolutions in the fields of automation and 3D printing will hasten the obsolescence of money. 


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#5
Sciencerocks

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How would such a economic system work? Why would anyone want to build a space ship???

 

Hell, why would anyone would want to share their food with anyone.



#6
Sciencerocks

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Revolutions in the fields of automation and 3D printing will hasten the obsolescence of money. 

 

 

Most likely...Robots will grow our food and 3d printers will make everything for us.  

With this we agree. On the other hand people aren't likely to give a damn about anyone outside of their families as people need a reason too.  



#7
Time_Traveller

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I hope money will disappear but it is going to happen around the end of the 22 century.

 

I agree with Italian Ufo, I do think money will disappear around the end of the 22nd century.


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“One, remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Two, never give up work. Work gives you meaning and purpose and life is empty without it. Three, if you are lucky enough to find love, remember it is there and don't throw it away.”

 

Stephen Hawking


#8
Sciencerocks

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I hope money will disappear but it is going to happen around the end of the 22 century.

 

I agree with Italian Ufo, I do think money will disappear around the end of the 22nd century.

 

 

How would this work? This is the important question.



#9
CLB

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As more and more things are automated and we reach post-scarcity, there will be no need for money, as no-one will need to purchase anything that there isn't enough resources to supply them with.

Edited by CLB, 18 June 2013 - 09:27 PM.

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If something I say sounds like trolling/being stupid/offensive, please forgive me. I'm bad with people.


#10
kjaggard

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How would such a economic system work? Why would anyone want to build a space ship???

 

Hell, why would anyone would want to share their food with anyone.

 

So you're telling me that if the materials to build a space ship were free for you, you wouldn't build one? Or that you could get whatever food you needed when ever you needed it for free that you wouldn't share some despite that you could have more if you needed it or the other person could get their own if they needed it?

 

The goals in a post money economy would be something like: 9 billion people need 81 billion pounds of food a day. so we build farming infrastructues that produce 87 billion pounds of food a day and an infrastructure to distribute it to the needed population evenly. The whole system could be automated.

 

between recycling and manufacturing being automated a similar managment of resources for nondietary needs could likewise be made.

 

We will be able to meet needs. The biggest hurdle after that is going from a consumerist system of for profit wants to a system where individual desires are not dictated by consumerism but by true interest in something. Not a competative drive to look wealthier or be better than somebody because you have better things. You I-phone 3 could be upgraded to a four with just a trip to recycle the old for a new one at no cost. Everybody who wanted it could have it. At which point the only way to 'be better than the jones family' is to improve yourself and be skilled or knowledgable in some way they are not. But even then if Italian UFO is a far better cross dresser than Matthew does it matter, especially if Matthew doesn't want to be a crossdresser to begin with.

 

(don't get bent out of shape it's a bit of a humorous example)

 

You only do the things you are passionate about, and wether or not the people next door share your passion is irrelivant. In general it's a good bet that theres more than one other person in the world who shares your passion, and our ability to connect with people around the world will be even greater than it is today.


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Live content within small means. Seek elegance rather than luxury, Grace over fashion and wealth over riches.
Listen to clouds and mountains, children and sages. Act bravely, think boldly.
Await occasions, never make haste. Find wonder and awe, by experiencing the everyday.

#11
bee14ish

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If the monetary system were suddenly abolished, there would be chaos everywhere. Every system in the world is based on some kind of currency, and to have it vanish would be devastating. I don't think it would be easy to get over the money problem. Not only do you have the problems mentioned earlier, but you also have all these power hungry people who want more and more. These guys will have all the power, and they will not give it up voluntarily, which is why I think it would take a bit more time. Maybe some of this could be avoided if it happened gradually, but we're still gonna have some problems. I can see this topic being brought up in later decades.



#12
Ewan

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Why would you need money when you have replicators ??!?!?!


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#13
CLB

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Replicators would use a hell of a lot of energy.

If something I say sounds like trolling/being stupid/offensive, please forgive me. I'm bad with people.


#14
wjfox

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Replicators would use a hell of a lot of energy.

 

We'll have an abundance of energy in the future.



#15
CLB

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But the point was that whoever runs the power stations can the basically charge whatever they want. Don't pay them? No power for your replicator. No clothes. No food. If social infrastructure changes enough and there is no mains water supply, maybe even nothing to drink. Also, you won't be able to replicate everything, at least not at first. When I say that, I mean heavy atoms like uranium. Not that we'll need uranium at that point, but just as an example. Those things, you will need to purchase somehow. Also, quotes are still broken on mobile devices. <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="wjfox" data-cid="52818" data-time="1371676618"><p> <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="CLB" data-cid="52791" data-time="1371661439"><p>Replicators would use a hell of a lot of energy.</p></blockquote> <br /> We'll have an abundance of energy in the future.</p></blockquote> It just does that.

Edited by CLB, 19 June 2013 - 09:33 PM.

If something I say sounds like trolling/being stupid/offensive, please forgive me. I'm bad with people.


#16
MAX

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An information economy is already beginning to replace our manufacturing economy.  We can see this change in the rise of e books and the sort. New jobs in which people administrate robots, edit information, and create works of art in every form imaginable will be the driving force of the near future economy. 


Boss... you were right. It's not about changing the world. It's about doing our best to leave the world... the way it is. It's about respecting the will of others, and believing in your own. -Big Boss MGS4

#17
Brohanne Jahms

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But the point was that whoever runs the power stations can the basically charge whatever they want. Don't pay them? No power for your replicator. No clothes. No food. If social infrastructure changes enough and there is no mains water supply, maybe even nothing to drink.

 

Why would people want to be paid when they have their own replicators? The point is money is no longer needed. Post scarcity means nothing is expensive anymore because nothing is rare or there is no shortage. Things would likely be automated as well. Even if you can't replicate uranium you can replicate the parts you need for a uranium mining robot who will work for free. Why have money if you have a system that works without it?



#18
TheGoodNews

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I wonder what will happen when money as a system is abolished.

"In most anarchist collectives money was abolished. 'Here in Fraga,' the local paper proclaimed in blazing pride, 'you can throw banknotes into the street and no one will take any notice. Rockefeller, if you were to come to Fraga with your entire bank account you would not be able to buy a cup of coffee. Money, your God and your servant has been abolished and the people are happy." The Spanish Civil War by Antony Beevor.

 

Does that answer your question?


Pacifist Egalitarian


#19
TheGoodNews

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I hope money will disappear but it is going to happen around the end of the 22 century.

 

I agree with Italian Ufo, I do think money will disappear around the end of the 22nd century.

 

 

How would this work? This is the important question.

Matthew a good historical example, in modern times, of a moneyless society be the Spanish Revolution of 1936-1939. Check these out:

 

"Money is hereby abolished and libertarian communism is proclaimed in this village....The castle has been turned into a warehouse and supply centre. Everyone brings what they can and takes what they need. There is amazement and delight on the faces of women who help themselves to necessary commodities without paying." The Story of the Iron Column: Militant Anarchism in the Spanish Civil War by Abel Paz.

 

"Many of the normal motives of civilized life-snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.-has simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society has disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England..." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia.

 

"I repeat: from the standpoint of social justice, money should be abolished and libertarian communism is infinitely superior to capitalism..." Dr. Jose Pueyo -The Anarchist Collectives by Sam Dolgoff.

 

So you see it is possible.


Edited by TheGoodNews, 29 June 2013 - 11:34 PM.

Pacifist Egalitarian


#20
kjaggard

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But the point was that whoever runs the power stations can the basically charge whatever they want. Don't pay them? No power for your replicator. No clothes. No food. If social infrastructure changes enough and there is no mains water supply, maybe even nothing to drink. Also, you won't be able to replicate everything, at least not at first. When I say that, I mean heavy atoms like uranium. Not that we'll need uranium at that point, but just as an example. Those things, you will need to purchase somehow. Also, quotes are still broken on mobile devices. <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="wjfox" data-cid="52818" data-time="1371676618"><p> <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="CLB" data-cid="52791" data-time="1371661439"><p>Replicators would use a hell of a lot of energy.</p></blockquote> <br /> We'll have an abundance of energy in the future.</p></blockquote> It just does that.

Well no, not really. I can build a virtical axis wind turbine out of small dc motors and foam board from the dollar store, that in a day in this region can generate enough power to charge batteries for power usage enough to print needed parts that would allow me to build higher quality wind turbines. Plural meaning I could increase my electric generation 100 fold. The power I can get from that would be more than enough to print a solar array on a next gen printer. and between solar and wind power I could keep pushing the limits until I generate more power than I need. With energy saving tricks and increased efficiency computing systems (like laptops that never need batteries or plugging in because they self charge from being carried and light sources and heat differentials and optimizes energy use, all things starting to be developed now), the amount of power we use each day will be less than we do now, and the things we can do with that power will be far greater.

 

The other worry is where will the raw materials for printing come from. I'm in the process of looking at making something that shreds and melts water jugs and shampoo bottles and milk jugs ect and extrudes it as filiment for 3d printers. There are existing versions out there already, you could build one. and the same will happen to all the printable materials, we'll find a way to get our raw materials from things sitting around us now that we are not using.

 

We will be able to paint our house with a paint that turns the entire outside into a solar collector, gathering as more power per day than we use in a day; while all our appliances including the 3d printer will together use less power than a modern refrigerator. and the tools for doing that will be printable, and the printers themselves will be printable, and it will be all open source.

 

Trust me if I had a printer that could print printers and their own power source, one of the first things I'd do is print a machine out a week and go rent office space for a month. There I would set up five to ten of them and start printing more out for people to take home where they could print out most if not all of their needs. Once a reasonable population base has it, close up shop. From then on anyone who doesn't have one could talk to somebody who does and one could be made.

 

There will always be enough people like me, willing to do this like this, that will break down any attempts to limit and monetize access to the tech to meet the basic needs of the population.


Live content within small means. Seek elegance rather than luxury, Grace over fashion and wealth over riches.
Listen to clouds and mountains, children and sages. Act bravely, think boldly.
Await occasions, never make haste. Find wonder and awe, by experiencing the everyday.




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